Snow & Ice buildup on roof

[5Cent]

Well we've been dumped on pretty decently this year in Northern Ohio, and I starting to wonder about the load on the roof of the garage and house.

The home is only 5 years old, with a finished garage with sheet rock. The attic space is completely open (no fire wall btwn. house and garage), with batt insulation on the house part, but no insulation over the garage part.

I planned on getting insulation in the garage asap, but looks like it won't happen until spring. I'm tired of fighting condensation, but now my focus has shifted to the roof & gutters. With the heat loss through the garage, it looks like it is melting the bottom layer of snow, then at night it is freezing. The gutters have a solid leaf guard on them, and now there is about 5-6" of ice built up on the gutters, all around the house. The corners have ice cycles in them, and all the ice is acting like a perimeter for the snow on the roof.

I shoveled off some of the snow to see how much is there and there is roughly 7-10" in most places.

What should I do. Should I worry about the weight of the ice and snow? Or should I just wait for a warm day

 

[walrus]

Ice dams can be very damaging. The water melting further up the roof builds up at the dam and can back up under the shingles and show up in your house. Happens all the time in older homes. Ice and water shield under the shingles might stop it, most homes around here have a layer or two of that.

 

[5Cent]

Ice dams can be very damaging. The water melting further up the roof builds up at the dam and can back up under the shingles and show up in your house. Happens all the time in older homes. Ice and water shield under the shingles might stop it, most homes around here have a layer or two of that.

I'll have a look in the attic after I get off work today to see if anythings happening. Any recommendations on how to get the ice damns apart? The more I think about it, I have to get them off the roof!

 

[JohnK007]

No easy way around this. You should try to remove the snow about 2 or 3 feet up from the gutters. Snow acts as an insulator protecting the ice. Remove the snow and hope for some sunny days. The sun will take care of the ice. You can knock off the icicles but I wouldn't go too crazy chipping away at the ice on the gutters. Aside from a pretty laborious job, I'd be worried of damaging the gutters if you start banging on them.

I've had enough of this Winter, when's Spring coming?

 

[wk96]

I live in NE Ohio. I just spent the last two hours cleaning snow and ice from the roof on my house. I cant get up on the roof of the garage at the moment. I did "rake" off the snow on and above the gutters. What little sun is out, is actually doing it's job melting some of the snow and ice. Weather tomorrow should be in the upper 30's so hopefully mother nature will give us a break before the next storm moves in. (Tuesday) About six more weeks of winter.

 

[krooser]

I have the same problem since putting a pellet stove in my home.

We used to heat with gas and the house was cold. We have a porch addition that was done many years ago. When I remodeled our kitchen I knocked down the wall and made the porch part of the kitchen.

I was unaware of ice dams back then and I simply packed the ceiling above the porch with fiberglass insulation... no ventilation in the small attic (very small). I didn't have any problems until I set up my pellet stove in the porch... it heats the entire house but the lack of ventilation above the porch ceiling means the roof gets warm, melts the snow then the snow freezes causing the ice dam.

Last year we had water dripping in from the ceiling. I bought a snow rake this year and kept as much as possible off the roof this winter. I stll have an ice dam but no water is getting in... yet.

The thing that upsets me is I roofed that porch myself in '88 and put an ice shield under the shingles. I used a 4' wide pieces of thin aluminum across the roof and used roofing cement to coat it... had plenty of ice dams but never had any water problems. Now, after having a new rood put on after some storm damage, I have this water problem. Obviously the roofer didn't place as much emphasis on the ice shield as I did.

 

[IDASHO]

Ice damns can be easily cured by installing eave heaters under the roofing when the roofing is installed.

While ice damns are something you do need to worry about, 7-10" of snow is nothing to worry about.

I dont start shoveling snow off of the roof until we get at least 2 feet. That said, Ive been on the roof 3 times already this winter

 

[walrus]

I'll have a look in the attic after I get off work today to see if anythings happening. Any recommendations on how to get the ice damns apart? The more I think about it, I have to get them off the roof!

Recommendations?, I can tell you what I've seen. Chipping, salt, heat tape. How high up, 1 story, 2 stories?

Chipping a few troughs along the roof allows built up water to drain. Its freezes again though. Chipping is a real b!tch, you must be very careful to not hit the shingles.

I've seen people throw salt and/or calcium choride up there. Not sure what that does to shingles though?. I have a standing seam metal roof now, used to have ice dams now it slides off. Although this year its been so cold I have a dam in spots. Gutters don't help as they freeze and help make more ice.
After the ice storm here in 98 you see more and more people raking the bottom few feet of their roofs to stop the dams from forming

 

[5Cent]

Ice damns can be easily cured by installing eave heaters under the roofing when the roofing is installed.

While ice damns are something you do need to worry about, 7-10" of snow is nothing to worry about.

I dont start shoveling snow off of the roof until we get at least 2 feet. That said, Ive been on the roof 3 times already this winter

Yep, I was running heaters through my head on my way home today. Got to wondering what is out there on the market, then realized that money is already spent on more insulation for all of attic and garage

But wow, 2', I love snow and winter, but I would die removing a perimeter of snow 2' deep around my home. Work smart not hard

P.S. Going out to start the cleaning. Gonna take pictures because the damn dam is decently good size.

 

[Tom2]

I am going through the same situation.

I would rake the roof after every snowfall, but we went on vacation for a week and came back to a bunch of ice on the roof. Just been getting worse since then.

I havent had any water in the house, and dont expect it. (Newer roof..had bad ice dams a couple years ago and didnt do anything. Never got water) Im more worried about the gutters since I just installed them last fall. Alot of work, and about $500. I will freak if they get messed up.

I didnt clean it after this last snow. (the roof is high, so its a real pain, have to use a ladder) Instead I bought some stuff called Roof Melt. Its about $20. Has 60 hockey puck sized things. I think its calcium chloride.

So, I threw several pucks up in the trouble areas. Ive heard it can take a couple days to work. Put them on yesterday morning and havent checked it yet today. Should go look.

Dont use salt (too corrosive, and stains). Also, I wouldnt bother getting on the roof and chipping at it. You'll just damage the roof/gutters and probably fall.

Next year I may try the heat tape stuff.
I need more ventilation in the attic too. I know that would help. But its a pain working in my attic.

 

[BooUrns!]

Most roofs are designed with the typical snow load for a region in mind. There are published tables that list your locationand give you a snow load index. This value is factored into the load calculations and truss design. You shouldn't need to worry about snow loads if you have engineered trusses.

Stay off the roof.


As for ice dams, it's more of a roofing installation issue. If you went with the low bidder and didn't inspect the work being done, you need to think about having the roof replaced and doen right this time around. Ice membranes, heating pads, proper ventilation are all things to educate yourself about.

 

[RPH]

Make use of your wife/ GF old nylons by filling with de-icer and throwing them up on the ice dams. Works well, in fact that is my job tommorow when I get home.

 

[tdkkart]

I've dealt with ice damming before on our old place, so this winter Ive been watching the roof a bit on this new place we bought. Interesting thing is that I've got NO damming, even with upwards of 18" of snow on the roof, the gutters have no ice, and there's no snow on the lower 6-10" of the roof.

Had me perplexed for a while but realized what the deal is.
The gutters are not white, they are dark "hunter" green, dark enough that the sun warms them and keeps them melted free of snow and ice.

Get the spray paint out and pint your gutters black, problem solved.........

 

[Tom2]

I've dealt with ice damming before on our old place, so this winter Ive been watching the roof a bit on this new place we bought. Interesting thing is that I've got NO damming, even with upwards of 18" of snow on the roof, the gutters have no ice, and there's no snow on the lower 6-10" of the roof.

Had me perplexed for a while but realized what the deal is.
The gutters are not white, they are dark "hunter" green, dark enough that the sun warms them and keeps them melted free of snow and ice.

Get the spray paint out and pint your gutters black, problem solved.........

That could definitely help quite a bit. It would atleast keep the gutters from holding a lot of ice if theres any sun whatsoever.

 

[5Cent]

Well the first 1-3' of snow has been removed around the perimeter of the house, exposing the solid ice beneith. Hopefully with the warmer temps tomorrow (currently -15 w/ wind chill here) they will melt down, and the rest of the snow comes off in sheets.

I am not so worried about the weight of the snow. It is darn near 10" around the whole house, with some bigger drifts here and there. All the attic vents are melted out and around 3" or so, with the exception of above the garage (which again is not insulated or heated).

BooUrns, unfortunately I didn't built the house, so all I can do is just fix the situation when the time comes. This and the insulation are the only small issues I have, and they will both be fixed. I am more worried about the weight of the solid ice (and I mean it's solid!) that is on top of the gutters and somewhat onto the roof.

 

[jerry j]

Guys,

Don't blame the roofing....... Blame it all on the LACK of enough INSULATION.....

I have NO ice damming, but I do have a lot of snow.... I'm in Michigan and, Yes, I have been an insulation Contractor for 30 years....
Everyone seems to scimp on those areas where you sould not.. "oh, why put in more insulation when no one can see it " ..

My attic has R-19 batts by the builder and I added an R-33 of blown cellulose,
Years ago... Oh the $ $ $ I've SAVED......

Escaping heat rises to the top of the roof, melts that snow, it slowly flows down to a colder part of the roof, (eave area) AND RE-FREEZES.. The process continues over and over again, and then starts to get under the shingles, then guess where it goes..... The idea is to keep the attic temp as close to outdoor temp as you can. Why heat an area that no one is occupying ? I have to chuckle when I see heat tape on roofs, also watching people clean snow off of their roofs because of weight.. Roofs are all designed and built for snow load...

JUST INSULATE AND MAKE SURE IT'S ENOUGH.. I DID ! ! !

 

[IDASHO]

You shouldn't need to worry about snow loads if you have engineered trusses.

Stay off the roof.

As for ice dams, it's more of a roofing installation issue. If you went with the low bidder and didn't inspect the work being done, you need to think about having the roof replaced and doen right this time around. Ice membranes, heating pads, proper ventilation are all things to educate yourself about.

So engineered trusses are the end-all?? Seems like a pretty ignorant standpoint. Especially with much of the NW getting record snowfall, and NASTY thaw/freeze/thaw, coupled with freezing rain and fog the last two years.

As for "proper roof installation" Ice membranes and ventilation have nothing to do with preventing it. Especially when you get REAL amounts of snowfall. Once you get a certain amount of snow up there, it is a big insulator. And the ONLY way to remove it is manually.

Do you know how much snow weighs? Even LIGHT snow? How about 3" of snow that gets RAINED on? We have had not only record snowfall around here the past 2 years, but record numbers of calapsing roofs too. I suppose they didnt have engineered trusses, right?

Bottom line, if you have a bunch of snow up there, an ice damn forming, or both, it needs to go.


Got snow? These particular pics were from 2 days of snowfall. TWO DAYS

 

[jerry j]

5 CENT...... One more thing..

You see the snow melted around your roof vents, above the house (heated area).. that's a clear sign that your losing heat, where as, the vents above the garage (unheated area) still has snow around 'em...

Makes sense to me !

 

[Tom2]

It takes ALOT of snow for a trussed roof to fail.

We have 120"s here so far this year (central NY). We get roof collapses every year. BUT, its usually steel buildings, sheds, car ports, etc.. (for example, Wal-mart had to close for a while a couple years ago..The roof was creaking like crazy)
But a normal trussed roof can hold quite a bit.

Just imagine a human body standing on the roof at one point. Thats 200lbs in about a 2'X2' area. It takes quite a bit of snow to reach that weight.

However, I like to err on the side of caution. When we get several inches, I clean it off. Then you dont have to panic when you do get a 3' snow storm a week later.

Insulation and ventilation are key to preventing ice. I have a good amount of insultion, but I need ventilation. I'll try to do it this summer. Nothing wrong with heat tape though. I think some people need to remember not everyone has a new or newer home. Eliminating all heat loss from a 50 y/o house isnt exactly easy. I see ice on 90% of the homes around here.

 

[Steve in Mi]

In a previous house I had ice dams and would use straight nitrogen fertilizers to melt drain channels from the top of the dam to the edge of the roof (no gutters). 26-0-0 or 34-0-0. I think it was better for the roof and shrubs than perhaps salt but I have no proof of that. It did help with the melting and keeping my valleys open for drainage. As cold as it has been lately any 'ice melt' is going to have a rough go of it without help from the sun.

I like the nylon snake idea but maybe with urea insted of salt. ?????

 

[VHF]

I used the nylon "snakes" (make from old pantyhose) filled with some sort of ice melt (don't remember what exactly but not straight salt) on my old house--a single story ranch with 4:12 roof pitch. Just lob the thing up on the roof so one end hangs down over/into the gutter... it melted the ice right down to the shingles making a channel through the ice dam to to let any water drain.

 

[mrsleeve]

come on I have shoveled my roofs off 3 times this winter and its barley feb. and have spent 12-14 hours swinging a 4lb hammer to get the ice dams off. That was after I tossed 50lbs of magnesium chloride on the dams to soften them up. I live in a older home and this spring I will install heat tape along the eves and in the bottom of the gutters to save all the hammering in the future


Idashow is exactly right we have had huge amounts of snow these last to years and it has to come off no 2 ways around it, it ***** but it needs to be done or you home is junk.

 

[ahaidet]

I spent several hours this weekend dealing with ice dams as well.
Two things that worked for me:

1) I have a hot water in the attached garage. Used the hose and a "Gutter Cleaner" attachment (think upside down "J") It was pretty warm yesterday (46F) so no fear of it refreezing immediately. Hot water cuts through the ice pretty quickly. (might want to wear a rain pancho though) Might not want to use hot water if it were cold enough to re-freeze.

2) After cutting channels and melting a lot of it with the hot water, I set calcium chloride up there. I will do the ***** hose tonight as I did not have any.

No leaking yet but I have heard horror stories and this is the first winter in the new house, so didn't want any surprises
.

 

[5Cent]

I spent several hours this weekend dealing with ice dams as well.
Two things that worked for me:

1) I have a hot water in the attached garage. Used the hose and a "Gutter Cleaner" attachment (think upside down "J") It was pretty warm yesterday (46F) so no fear of it refreezing immediately. Hot water cuts through the ice pretty quickly. (might want to wear a rain pancho though) Might not want to use hot water if it were cold enough to re-freeze.

2) After cutting channels and melting a lot of it with the hot water, I set calcium chloride up there. I will do the ***** hose tonight as I did not have any.

No leaking yet but I have heard horror stories and this is the first winter in the new house, so didn't want any surprises
.

Yep, I hear ya on the surprises. The weather was great yesterday to get up and knock off the ice. I got close to 50% done, and I'm hoping to get somemore done today after work. Thanks for all your guys helps, opinions, and motivation

 

[Kevin54]

Yep, I hear ya on the surprises. The weather was great yesterday to get up and knock off the ice. I got close to 50% done, and I'm hoping to get somemore done today after work. Thanks for all your guys helps, opinions, and motivation

Watch how you knockoff the ice from the roof as you could damage the shingles or shorten the lifespan. If ice is stuck to a shingle it could crackit or pull it loose from the corresponding shingle. Also the stone can become dislodged. We had approximately 15" on our roof and yesterdays weather took it down quite a bit. One side of the house (where the sun was hitting it) you could hear water running down the gutters. On the shade side, I still have ice. The best bet against ice dams is to keep the gutters cleaned out. This can be done with heat tape. And a dark gutter will melt out faster than a white one.

 

[Tom2]

Now that Ive had the "Roof Melt" stuff on the roof since Friday, seems like its been working. You can see the channels theyve opened up. Plus, its been faily warm for the last 3 days, so weve got quite a bit of melting. Ice dams are still there though. A few more warm days would be nice..but its getting cold again tonight. Might throw some more hockey pucks up there.