So confused - help

[jeepNfool]

Ok guys, I need to see if someone can clear my head up for me. I am putting up a red iron steel build. It was bought second hand from the contractor the city had take it down, so there are no plans other than his drawings.

Now, the slab is already poured @ 8 inches thick with 2 foot x 2 foot x 2foot pads where the uprights will be mounted. The building is 16 foot in the front and 13 foot in the rear with a single slope roof to the rear. It will be 25 feet wide and roughly 70 feet long and have 4 bays with roll up doors.

With all that said, my confusion lies in the anchor bolts. I have searched and searched until my head hurts on what to use. I had thought I was right in ordering 3/4 x 12" wedge anchors (yes the mounts are 3/4 holes). Well, a friend of mine who builds them said to use epoxy with the wedge anchors also. However, everything I am reading says do one or the other. Also, for epoxy the hole has to be an 1/8th inch bigger than the bolt, but for wedge anchors it needs to be the same size.

So, now my head hurts again. Also, when I asked him how far the 12" anchors should go, he said I could use these, but recommended I order 16" anchors and put them at a depth of 13". Well, the ones I already purchased were expensive enough and I really hate to waste that money and order more if I really dont need to.

Picture of shop prior to removal added below.

So, HELP!

 

[wssix99]

No need to rack your brain on this.

* Your friend is totally wrong. They aren't an engineer and aren't reading the instructions, so you can disregard what you are hearing. (If they are an engineer, you might want to look for another friend.)

* Your metal building should spec the anchor bolts for you. So with that! Specifying anchor bolts is a complex thing. The type off bolt, diameter, and length are all significant and the calculations are not intuitive. Your manufacturer has done all of this work for you. BTW - You also don't want to stray from their recommendations with something that you think is bigger or better - those types of moves can have unintended consequences. Just go with what they specify.

* The maker of your wedge anchor will publish instructions. It will tell you exactly what to do, how far to drill the holes, etc. Many of us will recommend to you to buy a high quality bit and go with a new bit for this project. (You may need multiple bits!) Having a good bit is critical to a clean hole and a good hole. If you can't find the instructions, please let us know and we can help.

 

[jeepNfool]

* Your metal building should spec the anchor bolts for you. So with that! Specifying anchor bolts is a complex thing. The type off bolt, diameter, and length are all significant and the calculations are not intuitive. Your manufacturer has done all of this work for you. BTW - You also don't want to stray from their recommendations with something that you think is bigger or better - those types of moves can have unintended consequences. Just go with what they specify.

There are no plans, engineering, manufacturer or anything like that, as I mentioned. So I have no idea what the size required is per those options. No, he isnt an engineer, he has just been building these for 30+ years here and is a general contractor which is why I asked him.

 

[nadogail]

To be a general contractor in my area you need to have a few things; those include passing the test on Contracting Laws, some documented Journeyman experience, Insurance and money to pay the fees. There is no requirement for an Engineering Degree or License.

Your contractor buddy maybe just doing what he was told sometime ago.

Not knowing where you are, or your local conditions or weather, I would seek the advice of your local Hilti representative. Hilti makes both anchor bolts and the hole drilling tools.

IMHO, they are Subject Matter Experts.

 

[John McA]

I am guessing all the existing anchorage is long gone? Perhaps a piece or two is laying around at the old site?

 

[jeepNfool]

John, its all gone.

@nadogail its the same requirements here for general contractors as well. I am in the Panhandle of Florida, near Pensacola.

 

[jack stand]

I'd follow your veteran buddies advice. Engineers have their place, but it'll involve them spending 4x the amount of your money to assure they won't be liable for anything short of the apocalypse.
This is where you can count on your buddies 30 years of experience.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Go with your original plan and holes the proper size for the anchors. If you want to add epoxy because your contractor friend said to then go ahead.

 

[Half-fast eddie]

16” anchor bolts? Seems a bit excessive.

 

[bb29510]

no no no no epoxy is needed

 

[Renegade1LI]

Look on line see if you can find your building or a similar one and get the specs. Honestly it would be money well spent to hire a local architect or engineer to review your build. I'm a general contractor, I never recommend what should be used or sizing of hardware, I follow plans and specs. Guessing at your conditions, wind load etc would be a waste of my time and yours, you're putting up a good sized building, very professional help.

 

[Jim greengo]

No need to rack your brain on this.

* Your friend is totally wrong. They aren't an engineer and aren't reading the instructions, so you can disregard what you are hearing. (If they are an engineer, you might want to look for another friend.)

* Your metal building should spec the anchor bolts for you. So with that! Specifying anchor bolts is a complex thing. The type off bolt, diameter, and length are all significant and the calculations are not intuitive. Your manufacturer has done all of this work for you. BTW - You also don't want to stray from their recommendations with something that you think is bigger or better - those types of moves can have unintended consequences. Just go with what they specify.

* The maker of your wedge anchor will publish instructions. It will tell you exactly what to do, how far to drill the holes, etc. Many of us will recommend to you to buy a high quality bit and go with a new bit for this project. (You may need multiple bits!) Having a good bit is critical to a clean hole and a good hole. If you can't find the instructions, please let us know and we can help.

Used building,so I'm guessing

No need to rack your brain on this.

* Your friend is totally wrong. They aren't an engineer and aren't reading the instructions, so you can disregard what you are hearing. (If they are an engineer, you might want to look for another friend.)

* Your metal building should spec the anchor bolts for you. So with that! Specifying anchor bolts is a complex thing. The type off bolt, diameter, and length are all significant and the calculations are not intuitive. Your manufacturer has done all of this work for you. BTW - You also don't want to stray from their recommendations with something that you think is bigger or better - those types of moves can have unintended consequences. Just go with what they specify.

* The maker of your wedge anchor will publish instructions. It will tell you exactly what to do, how far to drill the holes, etc. Many of us will recommend to you to buy a high quality bit and go with a new bit for this project. (You may need multiple bits!) Having a good bit is critical to a clean hole and a good hole. If you can't find the instructions, please let us know and we can help.

Used building,no engineered plans with it.

 

[Augus7us]

If it were me, I would find a manufacturer who is still in business and makes buildings as close to mine as I can find. Then call them up and tell them I bought their building second hand and see if they can send me some instructions or answer some basic questions, like anchor size.

 

[LOW1]

Does your local building code address this issue? What is a building inspector going to want to see?

 

[wssix99]

There are no plans, engineering, manufacturer or anything like that, as I mentioned. So I have no idea what the size required is per those options.

OK. So the drawings from the prior owner are just how to get the building back up and erect it?

Now, the slab is already poured @ 8 inches thick with 2 foot x 2 foot x 2foot pads where the uprights will be mounted.

How did you figure out the pad size? The figures that go into the calculation of what these need to be are also needed to figure out the proper anchors. (They are all part of the foundation design.)

If the pads weren't engineered or if they were duplicated from the original building, then you can get a local structural engineer to give you direction here. It should be an easy job and minimal cost for the assurance it will give you to make sure the building will stay in one place. (They should also be able to validate your footings.)

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Does your local building code address this issue? What is a building inspector going to want to see?

Regardless of the 30yrs of experience, and no plans, lack of material hardware callouts, that ^^^ is the only thing that actually matters!

After 35+yrs of building, the one and only most important thing I know is, you give the inspectors whatever they want! I built in several different AHJ’s at one time, and it’s amazing how inspectors interpret codes- one says this… one say that.

There would be nothing worse than going in one direction and then get called out with a red tag because something was done “according to the inspector”!

 

[bb29510]

the building doesnt weigh anything, the ancbor bolts are to keep it square and keepit from sliding off the sllab, drill your holes 12 inchs, out a nut on the bolt drive it flush and then tighen the nut

 

[bob15]

Did he tell you to drill the holes larger? If no, I do not see any issue with adding epoxy to the anchors provided they are drilled to the spec'd anchor size. If he wants them drilled out to the epoxy hole size, then no I wouldn't do it.

As for the depth, not sure why the 12" wouldn't work.

 

[Zeke]

I would not use epoxy on an expanding anchor bolt if the concrete is up to spec. If you hit a pocket of weak mix, porosity or crumbling, then the epoxy to the rescue. The main thing about wedge or other expanding anchors is that they need a well defined and clean hole. A bad drill bit is not something you want to use. Make your holes are sharp, crisp and clean as if you bored them if you can. As much as you can, that is.

 

[readhead]

I have been installing metal buildings for over twenty years. Is there a building department involved? How did you come up with a foundation design without building design reactions?
Any time I have had to replace bolts that were placed incorrectly I had to have an engineered fix. Typically it was a 3/4” B7 all thread 14”-20” long placed with epoxy.
Wedge anchors are not adequate for the rigid frames, only end wall columns and door jambs. Are there any moment frames? That definitely requires an engineered fix.