so i was watching diy network and. . .

[69f100]

ive noticed them throwing whole bags of cement ina hole and then just hosing them down. "slit, pour and splash" as ive come to call it and every time i see this it pisses me off. my dad and i do fencework, and i literaly cant tell you how many times we've pulled out a post , wood or metal, by hand because only the top of the cement was set. every time we go to a job, theres a beat up blue wheel barrel and a cement mixing shovel with a metal handle. it might take more than two second to set a post, but its worth it in the long run. and what really kinda pushed it over the edge was when a lady asked us why we mixed it before hand. i told her about our "experiences" with half assed laziness, and she just laughed and told us that the last guys who came to install her vinyl fence, threw them straight in and sprayed them down.

so i guess im wondering, is any of this right? this kinda lazymans way of doing it? or have me and my dad just been doing it the hardmans way all these years?

 

[Will67]

I myself have never done it the way you saw on DYI network. If you mix concrete in wheel barrow you know the sand cement and aggregate are mixed uniform. Versus praying water gets to all the cement to trigger the chemical reaction. Not to mention that the aggregate is probably lumped in one area

 

[JCQuick]

one of those bag concrete compnys brags about being able to do that..

 

[rburke65]

Well I have put in my share of fence posts and posts for decking supports and I have always pre-mixed the concrete just like my father did. But I know when I go to empty an opened bag of Sacrete that has been stored in the 'high and dry' pole barn, or even an unopened bag that I have had a while, the concrete material is like......well like concrete! Pun intended. So, I would think that if you 'dump and spray' plus the moisture in the ground, I got to think that the stuff is going to get hard. Now the quality of the mix? No idea. I think that Sacrete suggests that you can do the dump and spray. As always, just my 2 cents.

 

[ZRX61]

so i guess im wondering, is any of this right?

No, it's a bodge. Oddly enough, in the UK when shoddy work is done the workers are referred to as "cowboys"

 

[weadjust]

We throw the unopened bags along the side of our boat ramp and behind the sea wall where the ground has eroded. Once the paper wears of you have a solid bag shaped piece concrete. The few posts that I have set I used the DIY network method.

I have also seen them stacked along driveway culverts to prevent erosion. Once it's cured it looks like a concrete bag shaped mini retaining wall.

 

[djjsr]

I set about 30 fence posts in 1994 with this stuff. Still standing.

I was concerned about the water getting all the way to the bottom, so I filled the hole 1/2 way, added water, filled the hole to the top and added more water. No mixing, worked great.

 

[69f100]

I set about 30 fence posts in 1994 with this stuff. Still standing.

I was concerned about the water getting all the way to the bottom, so I filled the hole 1/2 way, added water, filled the hole to the top and added more water. No mixing, worked great.

that sounds more acceptable than what ive seen. they literally just set them down, and another guy sprays them. if they had split the water, or even made sure it got to the middle somehow, i dont think i would be as concerned.

 

[Kev442]

I like to keep the dust down by pouring a gallon of water in the hole, pour from the bag until the dust starts again, more water. Everything I've done going back 25 years is still standing.

 

[Neuswede]

I did my mailbox post (with a 36 inch deep hole) this Spring in a similar fashion, but pre-wet the hole first, poured 1/2 the bag, mixed it up with a re-bar, then poured the remaining 1/2 of the recommended bucket full in, followed by the remainder of the bag, with some final stirring for good measure. I dug out the sides of the hole flaring it towards the bottom so the base was wider than the top as well. Rock solid with no issues.

 

[larry4406]

Right or wrong I did my garden fence the dry pack way. Tamped and packed the dry cement which kept the 4 row fence posts in place so I could keep nailing vs having to brace the posts as the pre-mix cured, watered it all in place afterward. Am told that the mositure of the earth wicks up and sets it over time. 7 years later all is still good.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Yeah no problem if you use that special post mix. Don't use an el cheapo type though.

 

[srmofo]

I like to keep the dust down by pouring a gallon of water in the hole, pour from the bag until the dust starts again, more water. Everything I've done going back 25 years is still standing.

I did my privacy fence the same way last year. And I bell shaped the hole to prevent frost heave since i was only about 24"-30" down. I also nailed one 16d nail half way in to prevent the post from lifting out without the concrete. Cone the top of it so water runs offs, and had about 6" limestone in the bottom so if water does get between the post and concrete it can drain away.

Top all of it off we had a record amount of rainfall this spring, so Im positive my posts are set.

whats funny though is while iwas setting the posts, i was bracing them with stakes so i could mix the concrete. This also allowed me to set several posts at once since I was working by myself and couldnt juggle a level, a post , bag of concrete and the hose all at once. I had a guy stop by from the local fencing company and tell me Im wasting my time by bracing the posts while the concrete sets. I told him thats why he didnt get this job. My fence is straight as an arrow and im confident I wont have to mess with it for a long long time.

 

[69f100]

I did my privacy fence the same way last year. And I bell shaped the hole to prevent frost heave since i was only about 24"-30" down. I also nailed one 16d nail half way in to prevent the post from lifting out without the concrete. Cone the top of it so water runs offs, and had about 6" limestone in the bottom so if water does get between the post and concrete it can drain away.

Top all of it off we had a record amount of rainfall this spring, so Im positive my posts are set.

whats funny though is while iwas setting the posts, i was bracing them with stakes so i could mix the concrete. This also allowed me to set several posts at once since I was working by myself and couldnt juggle a level, a post , bag of concrete and the hose all at once. I had a guy stop by from the local fencing company and tell me Im wasting my time by bracing the posts while the concrete sets. I told him thats why he didnt get this job. My fence is straight as an arrow and im confident I wont have to mess with it for a long long time.

funny you mention that, we never, ever brace posts. weve been told its done wrong, but other than the occasional twist in the post, never had a problem. then again we havent set a wood post in years because they always rot, no matter what wood. whether 5 years, or 20. we just want it to last a lifetime. when someone asks for wood, we tell them that, and they usually choose metal. the ones that dont, well we just smile and think "ill be back"

that and ive seen cement crack when removing braces, which isnt a good thing either

 

[Gary S]

Step one:
Never get your information from TV. (Hollywood writers and PBS writers are DIY handicapped)

Step two:
The internet is only marginally better to get your information.

Step three:
Get your information from someone who actually has done the work.

OK, after Step two, why would anybody read the rest of my post?

 

[69f100]

Step one:
Never get your information from TV. (Hollywood writers and PBS writers are DIY handicapped)

Step two:
The internet is only marginally better to get your information.

Step three:
Get your information from someone who actually has done the work.

OK, after Step two, why would anybody read the rest of my post?

because usually this forum is the small part of the internet that is right.

 

[Bull]

We throw the unopened bags along the side of our boat ramp and behind the sea wall where the ground has eroded. Once the paper wears of you have a solid bag shaped piece concrete. The few posts that I have set I used the DIY network method.

I have also seen them stacked along driveway culverts to prevent erosion. Once it's cured it looks like a concrete bag shaped mini retaining wall.

Hah, I like this idea!

 

[Kevin54]

Hah, I like this idea!

A pic from Tractorbynet.

 

[Bull]

I can't see any pic...!

 

[wssix99]

One of the unique properties of the cement in concrete is that it hardens submerged in water. As weadjust points out, an entire bag can harden submerged.

That being said, I do think you have been doing things the hard way. On a fence post, you don't need strength in the concrete - just solid mass. So, you should get fine results if you use enough water. (If you have sandy soil that wicks away the water, you might even line the hole with plastic or a garbage bag first.)

For things like gate posts, etc. that get a lot of abuse, I still like to hand mix the concrete and put in extra concrete so there's no chance of them moving.

 

[Jack Olsen]

There are a lot of things I wouldn't use the 'mix in the hole' stuff for. But like others have said, where you just need some anchoring mass, I don't have a problem with it. I used it for my kid's swing set, for example. Not having to clean anything up afterwards is nice.

I did use a stick to mix the stuff up.

But there are a lot of applications where I wouldn't want to gamble with the condition of the mix.

 

[patman2]

I think it depends on the concrete... I've used this stuff: http://www.quikrete.com/AtHome/SettingPostsInstructions.asp

...on a number of small projects, and it has worked fine. The instructions say pour it in the hole dry, then put water in.

 

[5lima30]

I generally like watching the DIY programs however...am I the only one that gets annoyed that every program keeps repeating over and over "just visit DIYnet.com for details"? They're web site does not have have details on the projects and are just overviews of the TV programs. I like the "Cool Tools" program but the host Chris Gundy is VERY annoying! Sorry for the rant. YMMV.

 

[SuperSocket]

It's job security for you, I wouldn't be worried about it

 

[RCman]

I don't think I could ever bring myself to just pour it into a hole and then add water. I'd be too afraid of not getting the correct mix. Even if the bag suggests it. Although our 3.5' high (out of ground) split rail fence posts are in 10" sonotubes, so some might say overkill. Suckers don't move though.

 

[thouk]

We throw the unopened bags along the side of our boat ramp and behind the sea wall where the ground has eroded. Once the paper wears of you have a solid bag shaped piece concrete. The few posts that I have set I used the DIY network method.

I have also seen them stacked along driveway culverts to prevent erosion. Once it's cured it looks like a concrete bag shaped mini retaining wall.

Right now I am still in Charleston. I am getting ready to move to Lincoln, Nebraska. There is a ship wreck off the coast that is made up of concrete bags. It went down a long time ago and all that is left is the shape of the boat in the form of the concrete bags. It is a little more interesting to dive on then you would think it would be. So it just goes to show you that just dumping the bags in the hole will get you a shipwreck. Tony

 

[Falcon67]

I figured this out -
The Quikrete site says 2 bags in a 9" hole 18" deep. I dig maybe a 6" dia hole. Anyway, that's $9.96 per post - Lowes pricing. An 80 lb bag of regular mix is $3.37 if you use the whole bag in one hole. Marketing gets your money. I'll mix mine and save the $6 per post.

 

[GreyOwl]

I can't see any pic...!

If you just see a box like I did, right click and choose open in new window and it will show up.

Charles

 

[GreyOwl]

A pic from Tractorbynet.

Could you drive some rebar through the bags every so often while you are stacking then with this method to make it stronger?

Charles

 

[wssix99]

Could you drive some rebar through the bags every so often while you are stacking then with this method to make it stronger?

Charles

Sure. If you look at the pictures, you'll see the builder properly put in drainage to allow water to pass through. (Hopefully, they also have gravel behind there.) For retaining walls, removing water from behind the wall is the most important thing. (If you have water building up, you have essentially have a water tank, which needs to be stronger than a porous retaining wall.)

 

[weadjust]

Whoa. That's a little bigger than a mini concrete bag shaped retaining wall I posted about. That's a monster sized concrete bag shaped retaining wall. They dropped some coin on all those bags of cement.

 

[chadwimc]

I've done fence post by just pouring dry mix in the hole. It always sets for me.

The OP is in California? Does it ever rain there? Here in Ohio, a guy can dig a fence post hole and have moisture in the bottom before he can get the post off the truck...

My tree stands are still solid after ten years...

 

[jake1086]

<<<<< from a fencing family in ND high ground moisture and high winds

on square wood: we used to have neighbors fences blow over in the wind in our neighborhood. Ours never did the reason I think is because we used pee gravel tamped around the posts (just like our barbed wire fences with soil) so it lets the moisture get away from the post. That fence is a beast. If you use concrete on wood the moisture sits in the post and cant leave at the bottom and rots you have to use soil or pee gravel on wood.

On vinyl: I say premix only because of how many fences blow over around here you just have to make sure when you pour the concrete you wash off any cement you got on the post.

On Chain link: again Premix snow builds up on chain link and grabs the wind like anything else I say premix and be sure

On bracing: may be hard without someone pouring, PREMIX set your post in the hole, pour your concrete, move the bottom of the post so your on your string line (not touching mind you) then level it up. check your string line to make sure your not disturbing it, on to the next hole.

On Barb wire round posts for the corner braces. tamp tamp tamp tamp tamp ranchers have been doing like that for years, thats how I like it done we have a post pounder but sometimes the ground is soft.

 

[countryroad82]

When I was still a grunt where I work when we set posts be it fence posts or posts for an outdoor classroom (think picnic shelter) we would pour the quickcrete in the hole after setting the post and lay the water to it. Everything that I was in on building (lots of fences and 6 outdoor classrooms along with alot of other **** I can't think of right now) is still standing to this day. I think a lot of it depends on how much water is put in and how much concrete is in the hole. For fence posts we would put a half of an 80 lb bag per post (overkill imo but this a school system so it is best to overbuild so the brats and thier parents don't destroy something within a month) and for anything bigger than a 4X4 post it gets 2 80lb. bags per post.

 

[petee_c]

I used the mix in the hole stuff to set a 6x6 post for a satellite dish. The hole was 4' deep. I think I used 3 bags total. mixing 1 bag at a time. I think the directions were something like 1/2 bag of concrete, 1/2 the required water , mix and repeat.

Post is holding fine, twisting a bit, but that's not due to the hole.

P

 

[v8garage]

funny you mention that, we never, ever brace posts. weve been told its done wrong, but other than the occasional twist in the post, never had a problem. then again we havent set a wood post in years because they always rot, no matter what wood. whether 5 years, or 20. we just want it to last a lifetime. when someone asks for wood, we tell them that, and they usually choose metal. the ones that dont, well we just smile and think "ill be back"

that and ive seen cement crack when removing braces, which isnt a good thing either

Good cedar posts (not dimensional lumber but with the bark on right off the trees) like we have here in central Texas will last 50 years or longer here.
V/8