So I went to Sears yesterday...

[Bacon!]

know what really killed them? they didnt focus on making quality stuff, they made mediocre ****. then they decided to make all sorts of gimmicky **** tools.. waste of time and money on that one.

Yes they did make high quality tools under the Craftsman Pro label, but people were too greedy or ignorant of it and bashed them regardless.

Sears went under because of poor marketing and customer ignorance, not the tools themselves. It was never the tools themselves. Those were always priced fairly for what they were, once you add the B&M overhead, which an extreme cheapskate doesn't want to pay for and I can understand that.

Then you get those sentimentalists who try to claim Cman was great 50 years ago. I have their BIG set from 50 years ago, and hardly ever use it because I also have one of their last made in USA sets and it is better quality.

 

[kythri]

Yes they did make high quality tools under the Craftsman Pro label, but people were too greedy or ignorant of it and bashed them regardless.

It wasn't just under the Craftsman Pro label, either.

Craftsman chrome and impact sockets came off the exact same line as Armstrong, and were phenomenal - both in quality and value.

It would be awesome to run a statistical analysis of the various ******* about Craftsman on this board over the years.

I guarantee you the complaint of "Craftsman raised-panel wrenches hurt my delicate handsies!" would dominate over any claims of poor quality.

 

[zendriver]

Yes they did make high quality tools under the Craftsman Pro label, but people were too greedy or ignorant of it and bashed them regardless.

Sears went under because of poor marketing and customer ignorance, not the tools themselves. It was never the tools themselves. Those were always priced fairly for what they were, once you add the B&M overhead, which an extreme cheapskate doesn't want to pay for and I can understand that.

Then you get those sentimentalists who try to claim Cman was great 50 years ago. I have their BIG set from 50 years ago, and hardly ever use it because I also have one of their last made in USA sets and it is better quality.

It might help to remember, that Sears was not a "tool store", a larger version of Harbor Freight, that simply lost favor with customers.

They were a massive, bloated old-school department store chain (that still did a little mail-order selling), that for various reasons, had great difficulty, staying competitive, against a massive, decades long onslaught of discount chain stores, selling everything they sold - major appliances, clothing, jewelry, electronics, housewares, L&G and of course, tools.

The proliferation of Internet stores, only made things 10x worse, for businesses like Sears. Department stores have been coming and going for 125 years. It's no secret, people just want to shop elsewhere.

IMO, Sears could have continued, to sell US hand tools as they did in the past, they just would have ended up in bankruptcy, even sooner.

 

[finn]

The places I remember retailing tools as I was growing up in the sixties and as a young engineer in the seventies were: Sears, Montgomery Ward, Jc Penney (in larger markets), Coast to Coast, Gambles, Western Auto, independent local Hardware stores,independent auto parts stores, and that’s about it.

Every one of those places is just about extinct, so why does everyone dump on Sears as if they are the root of all evil?

 

[LOW1]

For me the attraction of the Sears store was the tremendous variety of tools they had. We were far enough from a Sears store that we only went once a month or so but when we did there was so much more chrome and metal stuff than the local hardware store had. Then came the other big box stores and suddenly there were other choices. I suspect that carrying too much debt was also a big factor in Sears demise. Personally I dont think the made in America factor had much to do with it. If anything they should have switched to quality import tools early on.

 

[Parrothead]

Sears didn’t fail because of Craftsman tools, nor their being USA made. Somewhere there’s an article about the profit from Craftsman tools and Sears even near the end (before bankruptcy). The problem was Sears was run by a hedge fund manager who decided early on it was beneficial to him to run Sears into the ground. He succeeded on both counts.

 

[MikeF2316]

...
I’m glad they finally closed all the Sears stores around here. It had become so depressing. My last few visits were like going to see a dear old friend slowly dying of a long hard fought illness who is too sick and weak to even know you’re there. I couldn’t even bring myself to go for the liquidation sales.

This is me too. The last time I was in a Sears, it was just to cut through it. It was Christmas shopping season, and the parking lot was emptiest outside the Sears, so I parked there, and walked through the Sears, I didn't even look at anything.

Back in the day, it wasn't just Craftsman. "Sears Best" really meant something. And while Sears wasn't always the best deal, you always got your money's worth.

 

[^&right]

I live neat Fort Wayne, IN. There is a mall there that was (?is?) the largest mall in the State. Sears used to be literally half that building. Hundreds of thousands of square footage on 2 floors. Full on appliance and electronics display, the tool section was bigger than any mom and pop hardware stand alone stores. It was Wal Mart before Wal Mart. They even used to have an optomitrist in house you could put perscription glasses on your Sears card. You could buy an entire home gym on the spot and they'd load it into your truck. Pool tables, ping pong tables - in stock back in the day and every model of riding power/power washer - in stock.

As of a few weeks ago that entire section of the mall has been demolished and rubble hauled away. Gone. It shocked me they didn't repurpose the square footage, but every cinder block and floor tile from Sears is in a landfill somewhere now.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Sears has been declining for decades. Here's a quote from a 1987 story:

It was no secret, eight or ten years ago, that Sears Roebuck was a troubled company. Between 1978 and 1980, Sears merchandise sales actually fell by 2.4% while the consumer price index was rising at double-digit rates. Sears' stock price fell from $62 a share in 1972 to $14.50 in 1980. But even if you had read some of these details, you almost certainly did not know just how sick the company was in those days.

https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1987/10/12/69620/

And it's been one step forward, two steps back for the last 30 years. By the time Eddie Lampert came to become the latest to mismanage Sears, it was already on it's deathbed.

 

[Coach James]

The decline of Sears began in the early 1970's, long before Eddie Lampert was named to lead the company. The specialty stores that began to spread after 1070 started the erosion of Sears market share and the company continued to decline until now. When Lampert took over, there were many business writers stating that it was already too late to turn the company around.

Coach

 

[Mechanical Noise]

It wasn't just under the Craftsman Pro label, either.

Craftsman chrome and impact sockets came off the exact same line as Armstrong, and were phenomenal - both in quality and value.

It would be awesome to run a statistical analysis of the various ******* about Craftsman on this board over the years.

I guarantee you the complaint of "Craftsman raised-panel wrenches hurt my delicate handsies!" would dominate over any claims of poor quality.

Pear head ratchets!!

 

[Lassen Forge]

When they took the popcorn machine out of where Tools, Sporting Goods and Appliances met, near the middle of the store, the end was in sight.

My earliest memories of SR&Co was the smell of Popcorn when you walked in the store. Those were the golden years. Now the gold has turned to lead, and is sinking to the bottom.

And the smell of popcorn still brings me back to that world of wonder, from a better, vanished time long gone...

 

[metaldad]

sears closed a large store near me.
to my surprise, they renovated it (decreased store footprint by 75%), reopened, and then closed it permanently 4 months later. closed about a year ago

 

[PZ 1]

I really didn't have a preconception of what to expect. As I've said I haven't been to Sears in years. Just needed a tool.

I might have went to Sears first too, but you could go to any hardware store or farm store and buy a universal as good as a Craftsman.

 

[^&right]

A few years ago I wandered into a Sears away from home in a mall. They had condensed merchandise into corners of the store utilizing perhaps 20% of the available floor space. Looked like one of those seasonal stores that open up around Christmas time selling junk them move along. It honestly just depressed me.

They should've had free popcorn. Has to make one wonder if SOMEONE wasn't coming out ahead running a once giant in America into the ground. I'm sure this is studied in colleges around the world how NOT to run retail.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

Or better. But it was a trip down memory lane.

I noted a few points with this excellent thread.

-the end of middle class department stores,
- hedge fund destruction of companies
-more choices for tools

 

[MarvinBerry]

They were a massive, bloated old-school department store chain (that still did a little mail-order selling), that for various reasons, had great difficulty, staying competitive, against a massive, decades long onslaught of discount chain stores, selling everything they sold - major appliances, clothing, jewelry, electronics, housewares, L&G and of course, tools.

Correct! How could anyone forget the Wish Book?

Mom did all the Xmas shopping outta that thing. Me, my brothers & sister used to fight over it.

Sears was more then a tool store. Its the place were 'ya got jeans and winter coats, shorts, shoes... a new TV and oven. Video games. Toys.

I worked in the hardware department as a teenager in the mid 90s. Great high school job for someone in the votech program. Wish I had bought more tools. Made pretty good money too.

Went there because my Mom had worked at a different Sears store as a teenager herself in the 60s. Started at the candy counter and worked up to store cashier.

Last time I took her into a Sears was a handful of years ago. She barely recognized the place. And that was before they turned half of it into a furniture store.

Last time "I" went into that same store myself was about a year and a half ago? Had a box of busted tools I attempted to exchange and walked out with the same box of busted stuff. They couldn't replace what they didn't have in stock.

That's actually how I found GJ. Searching for what was happening with Cman...

And yeah, the whole store seemed to be about 25-30% full at best. Electronics dept had about 3 TV's left. Jewelry dept totally picked over and 80% empty. Random piles of merchandise everywhere. Like pillows next to lawnmowers. Clearance signs everywhere.

No reason for me to go back, even though for some reason I still have that box of busted vice grips & ratchets.

 

[zendriver]

The problem was Sears was run by a hedge fund manager who decided early on it was beneficial to him to run Sears into the ground. He succeeded on both counts.

Every farmer knows it's better to butcher an old cow - even if it mean hamburger, than to wait for it to die on it's own.

Eddie is just milking the cow a little longer.

Does anyone believe that if it were not for his actions, Sears would be flourishing today?

 

[dagofast]

Sears is dying a deserved death because they broke the trust that customers had in them.

My Dad once worked at Sears. EVERYONE we knew shopped at Sears. It was a part of American life. My wife and I and our relatives and friends had houses full of Kenmore appliances, garages full of yard care equipment and Craftsman tools.

But I haven't walked in to a Sears since 2005 when I popped in at lunch time to get my fully polished but newly busted Craftsman Professional ratchet replaced. After finding the replacement on the shelf, I waited in line at the check out to make the exchange. When I reached the front of the line, the fellow at the register told me that he couldn't swap out the tool for me. Instead he reached under the counter and pulled out a box of repaired tools and dug through until he found an entry level, beat to **** 3/8' ratchet that had "rebuilt" stamped in to it and attempted to hand it to me. I refused it and explained that I paid for the top of the line ratchet that was "Guaranteed Forever" and that's what I expected as a replacement. He had to get his manager who had to get his manager because I refused to step out of line and accept the crappy replacement. Over an hour later after having to repeatedly point out the fallacy of their "new policy" I did finally leave with the new ratchet but with zero desire to ever go back. I knew then they were doomed. It amazes me they still exist.

 

[kythri]

If they had extended the Kardashian Kollection to the tool department, they might have saved Sears.

 

[Here2Learn]

You had the proper tool in your hand to complete the job, but you put it back? Sad feelings about department store shopping and changing trends in consumer behavior should not have interfered with the completion of the task at hand.

 

[WittHay]

It might help to remember, that Sears was not a "tool store", a larger version of Harbor Freight, that simply lost favor with customers.

They were a massive, bloated old-school department store chain (that still did a little mail-order selling), that for various reasons, had great difficulty, staying competitive, against a massive, decades long onslaught of discount chain stores, selling everything they sold - major appliances, clothing, jewelry, electronics, housewares, L&G and of course, tools.

The proliferation of Internet stores, only made things 10x worse, for businesses like Sears. Department stores have been coming and going for 125 years. It's no secret, people just want to shop elsewhere.

IMO, Sears could have continued, to sell US hand tools as they did in the past, they just would have ended up in bankruptcy, even sooner.

I disagree i think the majority of people are willing to pay for quality goods

Toward the end Sears was barely middle of the road with limited selection. Especially for clothes and household items. People usually wanted better quality then was offered at Sears. If you wanted lower quality thats what Walmart is for

Nothing discount about specialty retailers up here just huge selection. Walk into a appliance store, you can buy a $300 fridge or a $30,000 fridge. Same example applys to electronics or tools. Walk into a tool store, you can buy German Festool or Chinese Toolmaster.

Nordstrom's is moving into the Sears that closed near me

 

[mudflap]

Eddie realized the real estate was worth more than the company as a whole...it cant die soon enough for him. But at some point i think most brick and mortar stores are doomed. My adult kids buy everything online..Their furniture, dog food, etc. One exception Kohls.. I get dragged there by my wife sometimes..the place is always crowded and booming......? Long lines at the registers..I dont know what they have figured out...but it works. I think it has something to do with their complicated maze of in store % off..coupons, and cash back (Kohls csah)..and its all inter mingled somehow.. and keeps them coming back.. Just heard the wife say she needs to go there soon..before her $20 Kohls cash thing expires....?

 

[WittHay]

Kohls is a interesting store, the women folk like to cross the border and shop there. Something about a easy to get Kohls card and in store specials. They are like our Canadian stores, they work around and beat the online completion. You can take your Amazon returns to Kohls and they will package and ship them back to Amazon for free.

Another popular store is Fred Meyer. A pacific northwest chain. Little bit of everything plus gas and groceries sorta of like our local Coop store which is thriving

 

[measuredtwice]

...If you wanted lower quality thats what Walmart is for...

Walk into a tool store, you can buy German Festool or Chinese Toolmaster.

You can buy Knipex from Walmart... and Klein too. ..and Victorinox... and etc.

 

[WittHay]

^ Really, We have 3 Walmart supercentres in the area. I might have to double check but I think the only tools brands I seen were Stanley, Fuller and Black and Decker

 

[Mikeske]

Kohls is a interesting store, the women folk like to cross the border and shop there. Something about a easy to get Kohls card and in store specials. They are like our Canadian stores, they work around and beat the online completion. You can take your Amazon returns to Kohls and they will package and ship them back to Amazon for free.

Another popular store is Fred Meyer. A pacific northwest chain. Little bit of everything plus gas and groceries sorta of like our local Coop store which is thriving

Fred Meyer is a interesting concept and no one out here can figure them out. They are owned Kroger and it has a soft line, electronics, food kind of a Super Walmart but better quality merchandise at a fair price. Our local one is always packed but when they did their latest remodel to our local store they shifted the main aisle away from the registers moving it half way back so now you can easily get mowed down by shopping carts in the blind intersections. They also moved the quick grab and go items to the back of the store making up walk further for that one item.

The one I don't like is the fact they put in more self serve registers and took away the manned registers. The best part for me at Freddy is the gas station and it is 3 cents of a gallon off the posted price with a club card and for every $100.00 spent in a month you get 10 cents a gallon off.

The only thing missing that Freddy has is the Walmart zanies who for some reason stay at Walmart. You all know the tattooed lady who is 50-200 pounds overweight and in spandex.

 

[measuredtwice]

^ Really, We have 3 Walmart supercentres in the area. I might have to double check but I think the only tools brands I seen were Stanley, Fuller and Black and Decker

walmart.com <--

The Knipex and Klein is online and can be picked up in store or shipped to your door. Some Victorinox is available in store. They've got Dremel in store. Fiskars in store also. You can buy Dewalt online.

Walmart prices are usually the same as Amazon. Walmart delivery is usually much faster than Amazon's shipping for non-Prime customers. Delivery is free over $35. All orders can be picked up at your local store for free. Some stuff has an additional discount if you pickup.

I disagree that most people want quality. If most people wanted quality then Harbor Freight would be out of business.

 

[WittHay]

I dont think HF or Canadian Tire put Sears out of business. At some point when the guys were still buying Craftsman, the lady's stopped shopping there. Not cool enough for the younger ones, a little too pricey for the dollar store and lower end Walmart crowd, not good enough selection or quality for the more affluent middle aged shoppers

Regarding Walmart, I think its universal when you shop there at midnight. You see some uh interesting people.

Fred Meyers gas bar is always busy, more Canadians filling up then Americans. The concept is very similar to a Co-op store in Canada. Parking lot is always full. Has groceries, clothes, hardware, household items, gas bar. Ours has a bulk petroleum department and feed mill/store as well. Sales just keep increasing yearly

 

[zendriver]

I disagree i think the majority of people are willing to pay for quality goods

Toward the end Sears was barely middle of the road with limited selection. Especially for clothes and household items. People usually wanted better quality then was offered at Sears. If you wanted lower quality thats what Walmart is for

Nothing discount about specialty retailers up here just huge selection. Walk into a appliance store, you can buy a $300 fridge or a $30,000 fridge. Same example applys to electronics or tools. Walk into a tool store, you can buy German Festool or Chinese Toolmaster.

Nordstrom's is moving into the Sears that closed near me

That's probably why Harbor Freight has like $4 billion in annual sales.

FWIW Nordstrom closes more stores, than they open. Maybe Eddie gave them a great deal on the old Sears store.

Its been said before, it is not Eddie killing sears it's their former customers who shop elsewhere.

He's milking it because he's fully aware that it is a goner, sooner or later.


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[yrly]

Sears has been dying since the mid 1990s, hardlines shored up the softlines. Eddie killed it the rest of the way with Shop Your Way. You can’t give merchandise away like that. He still hasn’t learned either, they’re still giving it away.

 

[measuredtwice]

That's probably why Harbor Freight has like $4 billion in annual sales.

That's proof that people don't care about quality and/or have no understanding of quality.

 

[measuredtwice]

I dont think HF or Canadian Tire put Sears out of business. At some point when the guys were still buying Craftsman, the lady's stopped shopping there. Not cool enough for the younger ones, a little too pricey for the dollar store and lower end Walmart crowd, not good enough selection or quality for the more affluent middle aged shoppers

Regarding Walmart, I think its universal when you shop there at midnight. You see some uh interesting people.

Fred Meyers gas bar is always busy, more Canadians filling up then Americans. The concept is very similar to a Co-op store in Canada. Parking lot is always full. Has groceries, clothes, hardware, household items, gas bar. Ours has a bulk petroleum department and feed mill/store as well. Sales just keep increasing yearly

I meet more "interesting" people on the internet than I've met at Walmart.

I've gotten better tools at Walmart (e.g. Knipex, Wera, Victorinox, Klein) than the garbage sold at Harbor Freight.

 

[mudflap]

I dont think HF or Canadian Tire put Sears out of business. At some point when the guys were still buying Craftsman, the lady's stopped shopping there. Not cool enough for the younger ones, a little too pricey for the dollar store and lower end Walmart crowd, not good enough selection or quality for the more affluent middle aged shoppers

Regarding Walmart, I think its universal when you shop there at midnight. You see some uh interesting people.

Fred Meyers gas bar is always busy, more Canadians filling up then Americans. The concept is very similar to a Co-op store in Canada. Parking lot is always full. Has groceries, clothes, hardware, household items, gas bar. Ours has a bulk petroleum department and feed mill/store as well. Sales just keep increasing yearly

That sounds cool...wish we had them down here...

 

[highland512]

If they had extended the Kardashian Kollection to the tool department, they might have saved Sears.

I think they did, have you seen the size of jaws on the open end wrenches they are pedaling?

 

[kythri]

I think they did, have you seen the size of jaws on the open end wrenches they are pedaling?

Nice!

 

[visionguru]

I think they did, have you seen the size of jaws on the open end wrenches they are pedaling?

As for the infamous lobster wrenches from Sears, it's very strange that I never saw another brand (cheap or expensive, anywhere in the world) with that shape.

Rumor says that the shape allows the use of lower grade steel. I think it's totally B.S., because you have to make the other jaw the same shape in order to reap any benefit. Wondering who came up with that unique design and why.

 

[zendriver]

That's proof that people don't care about quality and/or have no understanding of quality.

Maybe, or they can't/don't want to waste money buying expensive tools, just so that they can keep their 2003 Grand Am on the road.




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[Downwindtracker 2]

It is possible to make retail work, we can cite examples, but having a corporate raider doing it was highly unlikely. But the death of the middle class shopper is very real.

 

[measuredtwice]

Maybe, or they can't/don't want to waste money buying expensive tools, just so that they can keep their 2003 Grand Am on the road.

Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

Maybe if they are too ignorant or too lazy to find deals on quality tools.

One good thing about people not caring and/or knowing quality is that people who do value quality tools can find lots of deals on them.