So its finally happening

[supratreo]

well after living here for almost 15 years and working on my cars on the floor i finally had and architect come out to take measurements for a proper shop.
going to be about 37'W x 35'D.
so much to think about but i think the type (design/material) i want would be the hardest.
originally we were going to build as a wood frame construction but now I'm having second thoughts.
i do def know we are going with 14' ceilings because i will be putting in a 2 post lift but that's where my ideas end.
i have a neighbor down the street just had his shop but it is much larger and made of red iron. i will be picking his brain also but i think going with that construction would sacrifice too much space for me.
what I'm thinking now is either wood, metal frame, or block/concrete.
hes using aluminum siding for his and installed foam board insulation on the inside which i like. if i go wood i would insulate but would have to have finished walls which i didn't really want. i don't mind having open walls.
only experience i have working in the shop that built of block and concrete is when i was a Toyota tech. i remember winters would be very cold and summers very hot however, I'm not sure if that was because we would constantly open and close the doors or just because of the building material.
as you can see i'm all over the place, trying to find out what would be the best construction material but also not break the bank. any advice or pointers would be much appreciated.

 

[MushCreek]

I don't know what state Elk Grove is in, but any uninsulated building is going to be cold in the winter and hot in the summer. 37 X 35 is an odd size for building in wood, which is usually done in multiples of 4'.

 

[CraigStu]

My favorite type of construction is concrete footers below frost depth, block or poured concrete walls on the footers to come up to minimum 12 inches above the lawn, and stick built on top. Slab poured inside the foundation walls. For your 14ft walls bring the foundation 2 ft above the floor and build 12ft walls above it.

 

[racecougar]

My favorite type of construction is concrete footers below frost depth, block or poured concrete walls on the footers to come up to minimum 12 inches above the lawn, and stick built on top. Slab poured inside the foundation walls. For your 14ft walls bring the foundation 2 ft above the floor and build 12ft walls above it.

Ditto.

 

[nolimits76]

Another way to "cheat" your wall height a little is to do a vaulted or "clipped" style ceiling. For me the difference being a true vaulted ceiling normally runs along the roof rafters the entire (or near entire) distance. Whereas, a clipped ceiling will run along the roof rafters for a small distance and then come over flat like a traditional ceiling.

The advantage is you can buy shorter wall studs while still maintaining your 14' height for the lift. Take the 2' footer idea combined with this clipped (or vaulted) ceiling idea and you may be able to do 10' framed walls, maybe even less depending on roof pitch and where exactly you plan to place the lift.

Keep in mind the roof pitch will determine the horizontal distance required to hit the 14' tall requirement. A steeper roof pitch will have a shorter distance, whereas a flatter roof pitch will have a longer distance. Again, depending where you want to place the lift, this may or may not be advantageous. Also, for this to work the centerline of the roof pitch needs to run parallel to the same direction you will park the cars in the garage.

Some examples below.

Simple vault (notice how centerline of roof runs parallel to the direction a car would be parked?):


Same picture, marked up to show how a clipped ceiling would work:


Lastly, an example of a clipped ceiling after sheetrock (this is an interior house pic, but you get the idea):

 

[nolimits76]

If you are using pre-built trusses in lieu of stick building your roof rafters, you'd want to switch over to either a scissor style truss (more vault) or a raised tie style (clipped ceiling). The difference here showing costs cheaper on the latter option to help keep your costs lower.

Not sure how reliable these prices are as I am not familiar with this website. FWIW, it states those are 2022 prices. Of course, so many variables to consider. Rather than focus on exact price, it might be a decent enough model to indicate you could anticipate different price increases for various truss styles.

How Much Does it Cost to Frame a Roof? | Fixr.com

Trying to budget for house framing? Read our guide to the cost of framing your roof to learn how much you’ll pay for this key part of your home’s frame.

www.fixr.com

 

[supratreo]

thank you guys very much.
Elk grove is in northern CA, i'm actually on the southern border of sacramento.
the area we have to work with is 37x35 and i would like to use as much as possible but like you mentioned, it wouldn't make sense for a wood construction so changes would have to be made accordingly. i guess the same would have to happen for a block wall.
i actually did want to do the poured walls along the footing, that is how my garage is and its nice to not have to worry about having wood against the actual floor.

if we do wood then we will be having trusses made.
architect mentioned 2 16' garage doors so the lift would be on the far right side of the building, enough to be able to work on/around the car but not have the lift taking up space unnecessarily.
i think it might also be a good idea to run shop doors instead of traditional garage doors since i have the headspace for it.
i also prefer working in day light so i wanted 2 doors on front and one at the back of the shop. the back door will only be to let light and air through. i hate working with artificial light.

i havent given much thought to the roof design honestly. i was thinking it would be a standard prefab roof but thank you for the ideas. main reason for the 14' height is for the lift which will be on one side of the shop.
i'll see if i can get some type of drawing together so that its easier to explain.

thanks again.

 

[supratreo]

So here is my crude attempt at a drawing haha.
the green lines is where i would like the door. orange line is the property line and the black space next to it is a drainage ditch about 5' wide and 2' deep.
Yellow X is a fixed roof we put up to part a tractor under but that will to go make room for the shop. Green X is where i would like the lift to be.
i hope thats somewhat helpful.

 

[billconner]

Good advice above. The 2 - 16' overhead doors in a 35' or 37' wall are a little problematic. To keep a wood frame structure simple, you'll need three 4' braced panels - so in a 37' wall 4' at either end and 4' between the doors leaves 2 - 12' food. You can get around that at some additional cost and det as ils, but be sure it's worth it.

A lot of issues will be affected by how much work you'll do and how much work will be contracted. Im just finishing a 28 x 32 and I think under $20/sf. Contracted, I think at least $75, and many different material choices.

 

[Zeke]

Never hurts to go high on the ceilings to get a lift in. Sure, it's more volume to heat/cool, but up near Sacramento shouldn't be too cold, just hot in the summer. Big doors and fans aren't bad in the shade under a roof that has a least some insulation. Like foil faced foam under the shingles.

If you don't need 14' all over, consider a mezzanine for storage. At a little over 1200 sq ft accounting for wall thickness, some extra footage can be pretty handy. Me, I'd install a lift to get a lot of tools that I don't use much off the main floor.

 

[billconner]

Just a note on your plan drawing. Assuming the hip roof building at bottom is house, you'll be blocking all sun light and air on that wall. Be sure.

 

[Zeke]

Just a note on your plan drawing. Assuming the hip roof building at bottom is house, you'll be blocking all sun light and air on that wall. Be sure.

He may need at least 4' between buildings. That's how it is here or they are attached. Looking at the shadows I bet that's the north side so sunlight, or lack of, won't be a problem.

 

[dcg9381]

i do def know we are going with 14' ceilings because i will be putting in a 2 post lift but that's where my ideas end.
i have a neighbor down the street just had his shop but it is much larger and made of red iron. i will be picking his brain also but i think going with that construction would sacrifice too much space for me.

Red iron is the framing material to get if you want to span 35'+. I think you're talking about the space reduction you get from a 8" or 10" beam, but you totally by-pass trusses and can maximize your height. A 16' eve is no big deal and you're not having to build two stories or step up to expensive long lumber.

Red Iron, steel siding, and foam insulation - that can literally be assembled in a few days with contractors.

 

[supratreo]

thanks again all.

i should have mentioned this but that building is a 2 car detached garage. shop will have to be 5' from that and 5' from the shed thats to the right. that side also never sees any sun. the top of the pic is north.

my brother in law is helping me get ideas as well and he did mention that a storage space would be helpful and now that your mentioning it aswall i'll think about that. my only worry is that in the past 15 years i've only had a small amount of space in a 2 car garage to work in so i want to make sure i'm never limited on space again if that makes sense haha.

Dcg, that was my exact concern, thank you for bringing it up.
is there a site where i could get rough cost estimates between materials? i litterly have no idea what red iron vs block vs wood vs.... would cost.

 

[Zeke]

Why can't you build off the existing garage? Don't let the roof design stop you. 2 crickets on the old roof will provide drainage.

 

[supratreo]

no reason i can think of honestly.
maybe more inspections since it has electrical or because we're modifying an existing structure?

 

[CraigStu]

Good advice above. The 2 - 16' overhead doors in a 35' or 37' wall are a little problematic. To keep a wood frame structure simple, you'll need three 4' braced panels - so in a 37' wall 4' at either end and 4' between the doors leaves 2 - 12' food. You can get around that at some additional cost and det as ils, but be sure it's worth it.

Bill has a point there about the required 4ft wall sections. But you may be able to reduce those requirements. My SIL built a small garage w/ 2 doors on the gable end. To be allowed less than the standard walls he was required to run the door headers all the way to the end of the wall. Normally they would have been shorter but the upcharge for the extra length glulam headers was worth it to him.

 

[billconner]

Yes, it can be done. Google portal framing. And, if money is no object, fine. Just have to be sure it's worth it.

 

[supratreo]

so ive been checking around with different companies for red iron buildings but it looks like they come in 10' increments. so i would be stuck with a 30x30.

 

[Slick111]

Is there any one in your area that will do a steel weld up as it can be done to any size odd or even dimensions with door openings what ever you need. The contractor just orders the steel and cuts / welds it to your size then sheet encloses it up.

 

[supratreo]

how do i go about finding someone like that?

 

[Zeke]

how do i go about finding someone like that?

Best way is too find a building built as you would like and fine out who did it. Might be easy and might not be. I wouldn't make steel a deal breaker. Walls with not enough width for shear because of excess door openings can use a

Simpson Strong-Tie Steel Strong-Wall​

 

[supratreo]

thank you. the guy down the street had a steel building but i remember him saying that they only had to bring it in and assemble it but i'll as what company it was, maybe they know something.

is there a way i can estimate building costs for different types of buildings? i'm sure if i contact contractors theyre going to want plans which i dont have, especially for different types of buildings.
or if anyone even knows roughly what type of costs i'm looking for wood vs steel vs concrete.
i think price will be more important to me than the type of building, or am i missing something?

 

[billconner]

I don't believe you'll see big differences for same size and features - insulation, mechanicals, etc. - probably less than 5-10%.

 

[supratreo]

I don't believe you'll see big differences for same size and features - insulation, mechanicals, etc. - probably less than 5-10%.

thats a big help, thank you.

also for anyone interested. idk if you watch Essential Craftsman on YT but i've been watching him for years and he happens to be building a shop/garage now. 12 episodes in so maybe check that out for some entertainment.
some of the ideas posted in this thread i see being used in that project.

 

[supratreo]

just thought id throw this up there. i found this site that lets you build and price your structure so i thought id give it a shot. this is essentially the design I'm going for:
https://estimator.americanmetalbuildings.com/8a64fae6-e35a-4c57-b7dd-91a0901f8803/

price breakdown including install:
37' wide x 35' Long 12 Gauge Vertical roof style $23,430.00

16' Side height $5085.00
Both sides enclosed with vertical panels $4120.00
Both ends enclosed with vertical panels $8860.00
1- walk-in door 36'' Wide x 80'' tall $300.00
1- 14' Wide x 14' tall Roll up door- Installed on the 37' end $3595.00
2- 14' Wide x 14' tall Frame outs- Installed on the 37' end $980.00
Diagonal bracing $2800.00

total before tax $50,006.00
Equipment fee $2730.00
Plans and Calcs $2075.00

total before tax $54,811.00

 

[zc15]

I would expect a 38x36 pole barn with concrete included to come in around $60k, and that's pricing it with (3) 12x14 doors, not just openings on the front

Concrete will pry be $13k minimum on top of your building price there

 

[nadogail]

Good Luck and Best Wishes for the success of your project.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Looking at your picture, I can't see what is to the right of the driveway, yard, property line or neighbors house. Are you going to be able to make the turn into the garage from what you have marked out ?

 

[930dreamer]

A 30x40' is a common size, could you get a variance if it's a setback issue? I'd go red iron but that's how most are built where I live.

 

[supratreo]

I would expect a 38x36 pole barn with concrete included to come in around $60k, and that's pricing it with (3) 12x14 doors, not just openings on the front

Concrete will pry be $13k minimum on top of your building price there

thank you for the info.

to the right of the shop is a 10x12 shed. to the left is a 2 car garage, behind it is a drainage ditch and in front is a big concrete pad. if you look at my crude drawing above you can see where the car is parked, its a big slab.

 

[supratreo]

according to the architect, 37x35 is the biggest i can go if i stay within the laws which say 5' from other structures and 15' from the fence/property line.
i dont know if they are able to bend rules but i can def go 40x35. the 35 depth is towards the property line but theres a drainage ditch there so if i tried to go deeper then that would be one challenge.

 

[CraigStu]

If I were you I would make an appointment w/ the county permitting people to talk to them about what can be done. I have done that on two garage additions in 2 states. Both times the county guy was super helpful. The architect 'probably' knows the regs but the county guy definitely does. My last garage addition I had a few thoughts on where I would put a separate garage. Talking w/ the county guy one was too close to the septic field, another too close to the water supply from the well, and another had a power line going across it. So we started talking about an add-on bay. That is what we did.

 

[zc15]

My parents just went through getting a variance for their barn. It was basically a simple waiting process that cost them $400. They and their builder went before the zoning board of appeals, showed what they wanted to do, and got their approval.
Depending on your locale, it could be simple to go bigger, but it could also be difficult and you just go with that 37x35.

 

[supratreo]

hi guys, so little update. My father and i decided (for now) this this would be a good start. We had an architect come out for measurements and do a preliminary drawing which is attached. i hope your able to read it. its a very simple design which is why my dad was thinking wood structure. originally i was going to do open walls but with insulation but now i'm thinking the walls and roof will be insulated and finished. i liked the idea of having open walls so that i could do more electrical in the future if needed but i think it would make more sense to sit down and plan the wire routing as best i can (in wall) and IF i need to expand in the future then id run conduit. please give me any feedback you have at all as this all all very new to me.
also i'm sure someone will ask so i'll answer now haha. the pop out on the side is an existing 10x12 shed that my father and i built. the architect had the idea of "adding on" to it so that we do not have to leave 5' between it and the new shop (by code).

 

[kwb]

Yes you save a bit by going in 4' increments (or even 2') because of sheet goods but in the grand total of a building - a few sheets that don't get fully used v. maximizing overall foot print, I am happy to throw those bits in the dumpster and not even think twice about it.

 

[billconner]

I am surprised by the 16' 2x4 wall. Wouldn't be able to do that without a registered design professional.

 

[reader2580]

There is a table in the International Residential Code showing the size of lumber required for various roof span and wall height combinations. I cannot locate the table right now for some reason. It appears your roof span is 34 feet. I am planning a garage with 34 foot roof span and 16 foot tall walls. I will need to use 2x6 lumber for my walls unless I read the table wrong.

How are you handling the water coming off the shed and hitting the wall of your new building? It is just my opinion, but you would likely be better served by rebuilding the shed with the same flat roof as the new garage. It would also look a lot better.

 

[firebirdparts]

^^^^There's a cricket shown on the drawing. It does look awfully small compared to what my grew-up-on-farm eyeball engineering would prescribe, but I guess it doesn't really rain there.

 

[supratreo]

I am surprised by the 16' 2x4 wall. Wouldn't be able to do that without a registered design professional.

same here. i was fully expecting 2x6.