Socket extension THICKNESS (thick one thin shaft)

[back2class]

Wondering if anyone had some real world experience on how the thickness of the shafts for extensions play out in actual use. I think thin would be a little better for clearance and weight. But I have to wonder if these thinner ones twist and cause torque loss? Could be a real issue if using for very specific torque perhaps? Here is some examples from the vault pictured. The 1/2 extension pair is a brand new SK and the thin one is an older Proto. Two quality tools. The 3/8 pair is Thorsen and another thin Proto. Kind of an odd shadow on the 1/2 that makes the skinny one look a little thicker than it actually is. On a side note, most of the extensions out there seem to fall into somewhere ranging from in-between to the thick form shown..the Protos being about as thin as I have encountered. Thoughts?

 

[sometoyotaguy]

The only time it should be an issue is with an impact gun. A slightly thinner one shouldn't be a problem with something that is already broken free.

 

[larry_g]

If you have a indicating torque wrench on the extension then what you see on the TW is what is being delivered to the fastener. You lose no torque in an extension. You may lose motion but not torque. Exception being that you have a impact wrench on the extension.

Read this thread; http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4751

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Wakefield]

I would think the thin one would feel more springy when used trying to break a tough overtorqued lug bolt loose.

 

[ssdave]

I have several of the thin proto, and generally prefer them. The springiness of them gives you a good feel for how the fastener is behaving. Hard to explain, but I like the way they feel.

 

[d.mcfarland]

It seems like only the older ones are thin like your picture. I'm guessing the drive end would break well before the middle of the extension ever has damage.

 

[airshow]

I think the start of the thicker extensions was a reflection of cheaper grade steel China, etc was using to make sockets, ratchets, etc. All my earlier (1970's and earlier) Craftsman, Proto, etc. extensions were thinner and I torqued the **** out of them without ever breaking one.

Fast-forward to the 1980's or so when China/Taiwan started to become a much bigger player in making established tool sets - Craftsman and others. The extensions became huge and quite awkward to deal with; especially 1/2" drives.

My take is even though more steel is used to make them, the price of that cheaper steel offsets a better quality extension.

BTW, I have some Sears wobblies that would be better suited for weightlifters than repairmen.

 

[M6erfan]

I think the start of the thicker extensions was a reflection of cheaper grade steel China, etc was using to make sockets, ratchets, etc. All my earlier (1970's and earlier) Craftsman, Proto, etc. extensions were thinner and I torqued the **** out of them without ever breaking one.

^^^this^^^

 

[gdocktor3]

I generally always pick my thin Proto's and Craftsman V series extensions over my fatter ones. Only time I grab the thicker Snap On's or SK's are when I need the knurled grips.

 

[gdocktor3]

I think the start of the thicker extensions was a reflection of cheaper grade steel China, etc was using to make sockets, ratchets, etc. All my earlier (1970's and earlier) Craftsman, Proto, etc. extensions were thinner and I torqued the **** out of them without ever breaking one.

Fast-forward to the 1980's or so when China/Taiwan started to become a much bigger player in making established tool sets - Craftsman and others. The extensions became huge and quite awkward to deal with; especially 1/2" drives.

My take is even though more steel is used to make them, the price of that cheaper steel offsets a better quality extension.

I don't think that's the case because Snap On extensions have always been made in USA and the vintage models were thin like those, but now are all thick. Its just a better, stronger design and is now probably an industry standard. Not to mention fasteners, hand tools, thread lock, etc have all advanced so much, the thin extensions can't handle the same work load as the modern design. Mechanic's now use 24" ratchets and breaker bars regularly where most vintage ratchets you see are only 7-10" long.

 

[airshow]

I have a spattering of -v- extensions in 3/8 and 1/4 drives. Old Proto for 1/2 drives.

All the others are fatboys. I'm in the process of revamping my home garage, so will replace the fatboys with some good used -v-'s.

 

[airshow]

I was surprised to hear of the thicker SO extensions. (I only have a few SO tools). You could be right, but in manufacturing (my trade) you're always looking to cut costs, and that certainly includes material costs and material treating.

Have all top-tier toolmakers gone to the thicker extensions? Mac, Matco, Proto?

 

[M6erfan]

Would love to see a thickness comparison of chrome extensions from various manufacturers

 

[dnschmidt]

This only matters with impact extensions due to the nature of the impacting hit. There the thicker the better. On a normal extension it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I've broke a good few extensions, and I cant think of one that hasn't been right at the male drive end regardless of profile, brand,or expensiveness.

 

[gdocktor3]

I have old Husky USA extensions that are thin also. All my thin extensions are also raw/brushed finish, no chrome. That could play a part also.

 

[Wamsutta]

The thinner they are, the more they're going to twist under load.

When the bar diameter is smaller than the square drive size, that's a red flag.

 

[BFHtime]

Extension can twist and absorb energy, even with a ratchet when pulled hard. Longer extensions usually twist more. Longer snap-on extension are supposed to be made up of a bars of steel welded together to limit the amount the extension can twist. I have had some long extensions twist quite a bit, so it would seem like the fastener was turn on the ratchet end but nothing was moving on the fastener end. I have also broken some using a ratchet pull hard.

 

[T45]

I'm with the crowd that says thinner/vintage is a signifier almost always a higher end steel. If you hit them like a tuning fork, it tends to reveal they are not made of the same stuff. Wether or not this matters really comes down to alot of personal views, and if you can afford to break stuff or not. The more expensive extension sets are pricy, but having a mixture around probably isn't a bad idea -- if you can swing a couple decent ones-- in 1/4 drive, especially. Which is the one drive where its easiest to test out to the limits of cheaper tools.

 

[justme-]

The vintage thinner ones are absolutely higher grade steel and today's are inferior to them. Manufacturers will cut costs wherever possible, so the lack of low cost high quality steel means the low grade raw material is the most cost effective option even if the need to use more, as in thicker, to handle the same load.

 

[Wes J]

I highly doubt there is any difference in the steel.

The difference is the manufacturing process. The larger section extensions are easier to make. They take a steel bar and use a head forming machine to cold form the square end and bulge and form the female end. Then drill for the ball and you're done.

The thinner section extensions would require an extra step to reduce the thickness. It appears Snap On use a CNC lathe to do it. More metal removal = more $.

For the record, I think Snap On has both styles still available. I like the reduced thickness personally. More clearance and not as heavy and bulky.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

There will be a difference in the steel. in the old days, the only way to make a decent tool was to use good steel. Now you can use high technology to make a half decent tool from mediocre steel.
I do agree on cheapness being the motivator though.

 

[General Geoff]

3/8" drive extensions

shaft thickness from top to bottom:

Craftsman USA early 2000s, 15/32"
SK, pre-Ideal, probably mid-late 2000s, 1/2"
Koken, early-mid 2010s, 3/8"

 

[jeejay]

Wouldn't logic (or tolerances) dictate that an extension of a square drive would be the same thickness as that, and any more or less would be pointless (besides to connect another square within it)?

Just look at torque wrenches, what torque range does each drive size cover... that's the proper range in which to use a drive or extension of it.

 

[Wes J]

There will be a difference in the steel. in the old days, the only way to make a decent tool was to use good steel. Now you can use high technology to make a half decent tool from mediocre steel.
I do agree on cheapness being the motivator though.

If anything, the steel is better today. Modern process controls and automation have drastically improved the quality of steel and reduced the prices.

 

[bcradio]

This thread is funny... so much speculation in here.

 

[bcradio]

If anything, the steel is better today. Modern process controls and automation have drastically improved the quality of steel and reduced the prices.

Exactly

 

[T45]

If anything, the steel is better today. Modern process controls and automation have drastically improved the quality of steel and reduced the prices.

I don't think this applies accross the board. I still see cheap OEM nuts and bolts all over the place.

 

[lbhsbz]

I have noticed that the new snappy extensions are larger than what they offered 20 years ago, as I've had to replace a couple I lost and they don't fit in the old tray. Not sure why the change, breakage had never been a concern

 

[PJNJ]

Lots of interesting theories posted here. I have a tendency to believe the quality of the steel used by many of the companies is probably better today than in the past.

And maybe it is cheaper to make them thicker - as there may be less machining necessary.

But I think the main reason for thicker extensions may be the large expansion of the use of air/electric impact tools not only in the repair industry but also by DIY'ers. And on top of that the power (ft. lbs.) of those impact tools has increased greatly in the last 20 or so years. Thicker extensions transmit more torque and probably last longer.

Yeah, we're supposed to use impact rated extensions (and I do) but many use chrome sockets on their impacts and probably use chrome extensions too.

 

[geraldamy]

I have several of the thin proto, and generally prefer them. The springiness of them gives you a good feel for how the fastener is behaving. Hard to explain, but I like the way they feel.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

Long, thin extension bars twist like torsion bar springs. I like the direct feel of thicker steel on long bars. For short bars, it doesn't matter much.