Socket Set

[Larr991]

Anyone have any idea who may have made this set? I cannot find any markings on it. Thanks !

 

[Stillgottimefor1]

Probably Duro, the socket size numbers look like theirs. The L-shaped tool missing from your set went through the ends to hold the sockets in the carrier. Neat little set.

 

[four.cycle]

The ratchet is unmistakably New Britain Machine Co.

Probably looked like something along this line originally:

patent: see 1438900 (drawing won't look anything at all like yours, however.

New Britain / New Britain Machine, 16 Chestnut St., New Britain, CT / est. 1887 acquired by Litton 1972 closed 1990 / patent 1386708 Aug 9 1921 John C. Hurley & 1438900 Dec 12 1922 & 1538621 May 19 1925 Henry H. Chase & 2554990 May 29 1951 & 2981389 Apr 25 1961 & 3078973 Feb 26 1963 Luther E. Kilness / http://alloy-artifacts.org/other-makers-p2.html#nb-mfg / http://alloy-artifacts.org/newbritain-nonebetter.html / http://alloy-artifacts.org/newbritain-nonebetter.html#history / http://toolarchives.com/index.php/node/243 / http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgIndex/detail.aspx?id=584 / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-vintage-new-britain-and-associated-thread.277603/ /
see also
Handle Lock Wrench / Handle Lock Wrench Co., Jamestown, NY / (see also New Britain) / patent 1438900 /

 

[Stillgottimefor1]

That’s hilarious! My first post on this site several years ago I correctly (maybe) identified a Cadillac hubcap wrench…haven’t been right since…I should know better than answer anything…

 

[Larr991]

Thank you, guys, I'll take a look at the site! I'm pretty sure I have the Allen type key that held the sockets someplace, just need to look for it.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Handlelock was an independent company purchased by new britain. The patent for the handle being used to retain the sockets was granted in 1922. Here are some patent pending and post patent examples. The patent was granted to Henry h chase.

 

[Larr991]

After a little searching, found the handle. All I found on it was Made in USA, and the patent date. Now its complete!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Looks good!

 

[four.cycle]

^ The Chase patent applies to the holder. New Britain manufactured a number of different holders under that patent number.
The 'ell' handle, with its retaining balls at either end, was patented by Reginald F. Sedgley in 1918 (1289558). New Britain/Handle Lock manufactured the "ell" handle under license from Sedgley for years. Some of the early New Britain/None Better/Handle Lock sets will have both patent dates stamped on them - one on the holder, and one on the "ell" handle.

The relationship between New Britain, Chase, and "Handle Lock" (if in fact such a company actually existed other than on paper) remains somewhat a mystery. There are some speculative comments on AA's first page for "New Britain", but nothing definitive.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yes new britain put that patent on a number of sets. Here is an early 30s midget set with the patent. I have considered handlelock a separate company initially, mainly because my set is stamped jamestown NY, but it is certainly possible new britain owned them all along..

 

[four.cycle]

I have considered handlelock a separate company initially, mainly because my set is stamped jamestown NY, but it is certainly possible new britain owned them all along..

There's a huge gray area there which has yet to be definitively sorted out.
It was the subject of one of my last exchanges with AA. I do not know whether or not he's untangled it yet, which is why I made the (since edited and removed) comment in my first post about checking the AA site.

 

[Larr991]

I appreciate all the time you guys have put into this. At least I know what I have now, just wanted to say Thanks! You have some nice sets!

 

[four.cycle]

No problem. You are quite welcome.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The relationship between New Britain, Chase, and "Handle Lock" (if in fact such a company actually existed other than on paper) remains somewhat a mystery. There are some speculative comments on AA's first page for "New Britain", but nothing definitive.

....but it is certainly possible new britain owned them all along..

There's a huge gray area there which has yet to be definitively sorted out.

Hmm. I was firmly in the 'independent company that tried to make a go of it before selling out to NB camp' and I thought I found their incorporation papers when we had this conversation a long time ago on the NB thread. I'll check my notes. I will say that at that time I am 100% certain that the only pre-NB pure Handle Lock Company set I had ever seen was LesserSon's, and now I see that OTG has a few sets (gee, what a surprise! ). Those are wonderful, OTG!

 

[four.cycle]

both names on "ell" wrench:

both names on holder:

screwball New Britain None Better Handle Lock model No. 4 socket wrench set that the seller insisted was 7/16" hex drive (yes, I asked twice and he said he measured it at 7/16". go figure.)

although the ratchet in the set is marked only with "Handle Lock", the "ell" wrench is marked "New Britain".
(and of course we all know that pieces in 100-year-old socket sets never got switched around, right?)


Almost makes me wish I'd bought the silly thing now.
Maybe I did. If I did, I don't know where it is, though.

I shot the guy at AA everything I had that was relevant to "Handle Lock". Not sure what the outcome at that end was. I read through part of his "stealth acquisition" piece earlier this morning, but it doesn't look to me like he's really sorted it out either. I think we're lacking founding dates, dates of incorporation... that kind of stuff.
I was actually focused on something completely unrelated to this and it was mentioned as an aside in one of the exchanges, so I'm not really all that well-versed on it - it's always been a bit confounding for me.

I'll check my notes.

Please do, because every time I've gone down this rabbit hole, I hit a wall.

"I will say that at that time I am 100% certain that the only pre-NB pure Handle Lock Company set I had ever seen..."

I'm not sure I've ever seen one.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I just re-read that and I still don't believe that thing was 7/16" drive.

Has anyone EVER seen ANY 7/16" drive ANYTHING from NB?

(and of course you all figured out already those photo images all came from ebay, right? sorry, I'm out of edits for the day.)

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I think mine are 7/16 drive

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm not sure I've ever seen one.

??? I'm confused. OTG just posted a few on this thread and there's a couple on AA.

 

[four.cycle]

sorry.
I am WAY confused on this one
I wasn't using the "search" function at AA correctly.

 

[four.cycle]

as I said above, the subject came up as an aside in a back-and-forth about something else entirely (Bethlehem) and I think I've gotten my wires crossed.
I never saw the "handle lock" section at aa before.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Please do, because every time I've gone down this rabbit hole, I hit a wall.

What wall? I just re-read the AA entry and it is consistent with my notes. Historical records show that Handle Lock Wrench Corp was a separate company, started by Chase. The sets with no NB features or markings exist (see OTG's). NB trademarked the name a year or so later. AA makes a big deal out of finding no record of the acquisition, but that can't undo the incorporation, the unassigned patent, and the pre-NB sets. The acquisition is implied.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No worries, 4.c. We all get mixed up.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

An unlock request I had made to the Google Books Research Support team came through this morning. Here's an excerpt I made. It was interesting to discover that Henry Chase's Handle Lock design came later in his career as a manufacturer and in his life, just four years before he retired and six years before he died.

 

[RTM]

Hey all, following in the Handle Lock idea, this showed up in a FB group. Looks like the same idea, but the sockets are way different, and the patent date I see is a Sunday. Feb 12, 1922.

any clues? I don’t see that erroneous date showing up here or on AA. Owner confirmed it sure looks like Feb 12.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Those are New Britain sockets, that is a New Britain set, and despite the case being marred and not cleanly legible in the area of that marking, I'd bet it reads, "PATENTED DEC. 12, 1922", the date of the Chase patent that NB used.

 

[RTM]

The mark is on the Ell wrench shaft (2nd pic), and looks pretty much like Feb.

thanks for the pointers to NB, will pass it on.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

It does look like Feb. Maybe a misstamp?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I saw it. Wrote case, meant Ell handle. It is marred there. It might be a misstamp, but it might be "DEC." and just "looks like" "FEB." A razor might help, but Occam's razor definitely helps. My bet stands.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

thanks for the pointers to NB, will pass it on.

You might also pass on whatever information is necessary to correct his misunderstanding about the evolution of Plomb, if that's what the confusing text above the NB socket set is supposed to be referring to.

The problem with all these FB collector groups is there's too many of them, with little to no accountability. All kinds of misinformation gets promulgated there because it's a popular app and often the first place that guys just breaking into the hobby find. Consequently, it's like 2011 in GJ time.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The info in that fb ad is misleading

 

[RTM]

Yup, I’ve tried to correct him, will see if he changes it. Did not look P&C to mr. Pointed him to AA for P&C