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Socket torque

Arbybe

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Apr 1, 2013
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Memphis,TN.
When you are twisting a wrench, what is the torque that causes the
Socket to tilt and dis engage called? Axial?,Radial?
You naturally counter this with your other hand.
Is a problem in weightless environment.
Just curious.....
RBB
 
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bmwpowere36m3

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You working on the ISS...?

A socket or wrench will "tilt" due to the inherent slop between the tool and hardware interface and the application of force that's of the center-line of contact (between tool and hardware).
 

jeremy v

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A bending moment. In a weightless environment all the forces you put on a ratchet, extension, etc. would be the same as they are on earth. The difference is that gravity won't also be trying to pull the ratchet down towards the floor (if you let go) and an astronaut also doesn't have his body weight available to help apply force to the ratchet. The astronaut would have to brace himself against something, hold on to something, etc. and then use that anchoring point to either push or pull on the ratchet.

If your situation was duplicated in space, a second hand would still be required on the ratchet head (when using a long extension on a ratchet) in order to counteract the bending moment created at the socket/bolt interface. That could become an issue if you didn't have something you could easily brace yourself or the ratchet head against, because the ratchet would require both of your hands to operate it properly but you still need to connect yourself somehow to another solid surface so you could pull on the ratchet. If you weren't anchored to something solid, any pulling you tried to do on the ratchet would just try to shoot your body across the room instead of turning the ratchet.
 

BDT/NWMN

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Erskine, Mn
A bending moment. In a weightless environment all the forces you put on a ratchet, extension, etc. would be the same as they are on earth. The difference is that gravity won't also be trying to pull the ratchet down towards the floor (if you let go) and an astronaut also doesn't have his body weight available to help apply force to the ratchet. The astronaut would have to brace himself against something, hold on to something, etc. and then use that anchoring point to either push or pull on the ratchet.

If your situation was duplicated in space, a second hand would still be required on the ratchet head (when using a long extension on a ratchet) in order to counteract the bending moment created at the socket/bolt interface. That could become an issue if you didn't have something you could easily brace yourself or the ratchet head against, because the ratchet would require both of your hands to operate it properly but you still need to connect yourself somehow to another solid surface so you could pull on the ratchet. If you weren't anchored to something solid, any pulling you tried to do on the ratchet would just try to shoot your body across the room instead of turning the ratchet.

Just use a cordless impact and enjoy your own carnival ride..
 
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TigerDude

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Atlanta, GA USA
there are 2 components. The torque (or moment) force that goes around the bolt and the direct force, in the same direction as you push on the ratchet handle. This force will try to bend the bolt over.

Because that directional force is above the bolt if you are using a socket, it will both bend the bolt in the direction of your force on the ratchet handle and will also create a second torque that is end-to-end on the bolt, in effect trying to pry off the head of the bolt like a beer cap.

This is a problem for any fastener where you desire to put no stress on the bolt side to side, or to put no stress on the underlying structure, like piping or plastic.

The nuclear Navy calls the opposite and equal force you put on the ratchet or wrench head "counter-torque," which isn't quite correct, but it works regardless. This is good practice for all fasteners, not just nuclear grade ones.
 

gearhead1

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You working on the ISS...?

A socket or wrench will "tilt" due to the inherent slop between the tool and hardware interface and the application of force that's of the center-line of contact (between tool and hardware).

I agree, the torque itself doesn't do it, but the fact that torque is being applied (removes the tolerance....).

Definition of torque is force times distance. T=Fxd

In simple terms, the term moment can also be substituted for torque. In engineering the word moment is used and usually applies when calculating beam loading and consequent beam shear or stress.
 

jeremy v

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Just for clarity purposes I think I will further explain the bending moment I am talking about, because moments can exist on multiple axes (often at the same time) and they have different common names as well. That can lead to confusion.

Imagine that your socket is welded to the bolt head. Now imagine that your ratchet extension is made out of thin round spring steel instead of thick steel, so it can bend/flex lengthwise when force is applied. When you apply hand force to the ratchet handle (without supporting the ratchet head) the ratchet will be transferring torque to try and turn the bolt head, but it will also be trying to bend your extension lengthwise. This bending force is not the same torque force that is trying to turn the bolt, it is a secondary bending moment (created by your ratchet and extension geometry). The secondary bending moment is what tries to tilt the socket off of the bolt head if they aren't welded together. The magnitude of the secondary bending moment will depend on the extension length, ratchet handle length, hand force applied to the ratchet handle, etc. When you naturally push with your other hand on the ratchet head to keep the socket square on the bolt head, you are physically counteracting that secondary bending moment your main ratchet hand is creating. That secondary hand force applied to the ratchet head will naturally straighten your flexible socket extension back out if it is being applied in the correct direction. When that flexible extension remains straight (because of the secondary support you are providing at the ratchet head), the only net force the bolt head sees is torque trying to turn the bolt. As a result, the bolt head will turn without the socket wanting to tilt off of the bolt head in the process.
 
Last edited:

gearhead1

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I'm tracking, but I figured I wouldn't be able to word it well enough to understand without a diagram. LOL
 
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