Socket / Wrench Tools for Order of Access

[oldschoolcraft]

I'm researching the best types of ratcheting wrenches to get. I'm more interested in increasing capability than increasing speed. If I can access a fastener with a new tool that otherwise would have required me to take half of the engine bay apart, that is a great tool. I'm not interested in saving 10 seconds on removing an easy fastener.

It got me thinking, for fastener access, what is the order of tools of preference to choose? I've been reading a lot of threads and here's the summary of what I think I learned:

I think you want to break the fastener with a box end first. Which may require a standard 15 degree, a 0-degree offset, or a deep 45 degree. And you may be able to get away with a regular length, but you may need a long length either for access since your hand can't fit in the spot where a regular length wrench would be, or maybe long length for extra torque. Or you might need stubby length for access.

If you can't get a box end on to break it, you can try to break it with an open end, but the torque capability is much more limited due to less wrench surface area engagement with the fastener. Snap On makes flank drive open ends that bite into fasteners, which some argue can leave marks on the fastener (and some disagree), but may be necessary to get enough torque.

Once it's broken, you could in theory keep using that tool to continue turning the fastener until it's loose, you had the clearance to get that initial tool on to turn it slightly, which means you can keep turning it. But it will take a long time, so some ratcheting tool is introduced.

If you have clearance, go with a socket and ratchet. All sorts of lengths and depths to choose from. I think this is the original gold standard. Then we have ratcheting box end wrenches with reversible being the first choice. The problem with reversible is that it requires more clearance to fit the head in. Assuming unlimited clearance, I think mechanics might even choose a reversible wrench over a socket/ratchet because of the speed in picking up one single tool, rather than connecting a socket + ratchet.

If there's not quite clearance for a reversible wrench, then they make non-reversible. These tend to be in 0 degree offset or flex, because having a fixed 15 degree non-reversible wouldn't be symmetrical in use, since you' have 15 degrees in one direction and 165 degrees in the other direction. Flex is going to be floppier than 0 degree offset but you may need the angle. There are lockable flex, but it will limit you in specific locking positions.

Based on this, it seems like the order of access for tools from unlimited access to limited access is:

• Socket + Ratchet
• Reversible Ratcheting Wrench 15 degree
• Non-Reversible 0-degree Offset Ratcheting Wrench
• Non-Reversible Locking Flex Ratcheting Wrench
• Non-Reversible Non-Locking Flex Ratcheting Wrench

And as far as lengths, a standard length is "standard". You shouldn't need a longer one to get more torque because you should have broken the fastener with a fixed box end wrench. But you might need longer for access due to obstructions above the fastener that would limit your hand placement on the tool. And you might need stubby for access due to obstructions that would limit tool placement around the fastener.

I've come to realize that I work primarily on Japanese cars and most of the fasteners under the hood are 8, 10, 12, 14 which means I can actually get away with 2 wrenches, an 8-10 and a 12-14, and buy one of every style of wrench, and not fill up an entire drawer with ****. I think the 17s and 19s are mostly in places where you can fit sockets without issue.

 

[VolvoRyan]

I didn't read the whole post because you are painting yourself into a philosophical corner. This will get expensive when you inevitably have to backtrack and have to re-tool your thinking, tool collection, and storage solutions. BTDT.

You gotta paint with a wider brush.

-Ryan

 

[swsman]

You forgot about air and cordless tools.
In my case I go on case by case basis, having options is not a bad thing.

Just the other day I disassembled snowblower for some TLC using hand tools only, combination of ratchets and wrenches.
Just felt like doing it old school way vs busting out my cordless ratchet/impacts.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

I didn't read the whole post because you are painting yourself into a philosophical corner. This will get expensive when you inevitably have to backtrack and have to re-tool your thinking, tool collection, and storage solutions. BTDT.

You gotta paint with a wider brush.

I'd love to learn from your mistakes. Can you can give an example of the wider brush method? I'm guessing it's fewer more versatile wrench options in non-skips?

 

[oldschoolcraft]

You forgot about air and cordless tools.

I think most cordless tools just add speed to an individual fastener. I asked a while back and someone presented a scenario where the bolt isn't secured on the rear and if you used a wrench/socket it would free-spin, but if you used an impact gun, the quick sudden jolt would allow it to loosen.

My goals in order of importance:

Level 1) Can I do the job at all? Even if it's slow and inefficient and uncomfortable, can I do it?

Level 2) Can I do the job by removing minimal other parts? The manual might say to remove these 6 things to access your part, but if you have some speciality access tools, you can skip that. The time savings is secondary to the risk-savings of not breaking something else in the process.

Level 3) Can I do the job faster overall?

I'm already at level 1. I'd like to hit level 2. I'm not a professional flat rate mechanic so level 3 isn't of interest to me, given the significant increase in tools needed to achieve that.

What I'd like to add is tools to avoid having to risk breaking other parts to access the thing I want to change. Not necessarily tools that will make it 10 seconds faster to remove an easy fastener. But tools that will save me 30 minutes of removing extra stuff and avoid risking breaking them. Most professional GJers skip level 2 and jump straight to 3 because their time is money and they have massive tool carts.

 

[swsman]

Golden rule is and remains: +1
(How many tools does one really need)

What you are trying to accomplish would work well for standardized tasks you are very familiar with. We go back to case per case basis.

Once you venture into an unfamiliar territory you are back to the drawing board.

Back in the day when I was very vested into recreational 4wheeling/rock crawling I had tools/related materials kept in their specific zippered pouches that would address axle U joint change, airing/deflating tires, as well as carrying fully assembled parts to throw in when breakage did take place.

This has allowed me to complete a task, versus hunting down needed tools/parts etc.

 

[Beerhippie]

I put together my tool kit over many years by buying the right tool for the job I was doing. For some jobs, like carpentry, you'd just take a look at what the other folks carried and buy that kit. For some jobs, like a specific vehicle repair, read the manual and buy or improvise what you need.

Unfortunately, with the pathetic stock at what passes for hardware stores these days, this is much more difficult. I need a pair of 10" cable cutters for this job--so I have to order them and wait a week, or improvise (masking tape, right-angle grinder, cut off wheel) to get the job done. At least I'll have the cutters for the next time.

Now as for this Order of Access: Can one simply join up, or does one need to be nominated?

 

[Wamsutta]

I feel like I should get some kind of college credit for reading that opening post.

If a fastener is too hard to access with a regular wrench or a socket, the first thing that comes to mind is an extra long extension with a universal socket on the end. Ratcheting wrenches are usually for convenience; not access.

 

[richfinn]

I think most cordless tools just add speed to an individual fastener. I asked a while back and someone presented a scenario where the bolt isn't secured on the rear and if you used a wrench/socket it would free-spin, but if you used an impact gun, the quick sudden jolt would allow it to loosen.

My goals in order of importance:

Level 1) Can I do the job at all? Even if it's slow and inefficient and uncomfortable, can I do it?

Level 2) Can I do the job by removing minimal other parts? The manual might say to remove these 6 things to access your part, but if you have some speciality access tools, you can skip that. The time savings is secondary to the risk-savings of not breaking something else in the process.

Level 3) Can I do the job faster overall?

I'm already at level 1. I'd like to hit level 2. I'm not a professional flat rate mechanic so level 3 isn't of interest to me, given the significant increase in tools needed to achieve that.

What I'd like to add is tools to avoid having to risk breaking other parts to access the thing I want to change. Not necessarily tools that will make it 10 seconds faster to remove an easy fastener. But tools that will save me 30 minutes of removing extra stuff and avoid risking breaking them. Most professional GJers skip level 2 and jump straight to 3 because their time is money and they have massive tool carts.

Buy the five piece Kabo XL reversible flex head wrench set (Mountain/ICON/Whatever), those are the only ratchet wrenches I now use out of my fairly comprehensive collection.

The Gearwrench Serpentine belt kit is also very useful for access (not just belts!!)

Cordless impacts are useful not just because of the speed, they will also help get stuff off without shearing bolts if used property

Cordless ratchets likewise help because you don't have to worry about having room to swing it back and forth (especially the long neck versions)

Wobble extensions/flex sockets/nut grip sockets are a big help getting at awkward stuff and not dropping them into the abyss!!

But by far the biggest thing is perfecting your diagnostic technique, with some ingenuity and thinking outside the box a lot of time, breakages and stress can be averted simply by avoiding unnecessary R&R work just to get at stuff to test it!!!!!

 

[oldschoolcraft]

I think I found the best second set of wrenches to add to my Proto combination wrench set. Icon stubby ratcheting flex head non-reversible wrenches.

I don't own a pass thru socket set, I was thinking about it, but this should cover me there, should the need arise. It won't be fun, because I might have to flex the handle 90 degrees for access, and there won't be a "stop" on the backside so I'll have to keep readjusting the wrench on the fastener, but never in my life have I needed a pass thru socket set, I just hate not being able to do something. So this will give me that added capability that I lacked before. If I wind up needing a pass thru socket set, I'll buy one, but this should get me by in the short term if something comes up.

It also gives me a stubby open end wrench for limited access. It's Icon, so not as good as Proto or SO, but it's a stubby so I can't generate much torque anyway. And because it's non-reversible, the box end is relatively slim, so should be able to give me most of the benefits of a stubby fixed box end.

And because it's flex, it might get me into some nooks I couldn't otherwise get into with a ratchet and universal socket.

It seems like this might be an amazing second set of wrenches to pair with a standard combination wrench set, for purposes of expanding capabilities. Please correct my ignorance if I'm wrong.

 

[AEAdam]

No. I would choose the Icon version of the snap on high performance 15 degree double box ends after your combos. After that, I’d choose the Icon zero degrees with the ratchet on one end and regular box end on the other.

Some here will disagree, but I have never encountered a job that could only be accomplished with a ****** stubby flex head ratchet wrench. Never. I have bluepoint ratchet stubbies and they are convenience tools, fast for final removal or initial installation. But they are luxury tools.

In terms of order of operations, your default should be accessing and delivering torque, probably in that order.

First isn’t socket and ratchet, it’s impact gun. If you can access hardware with a gun, you probably should. Next would be sockets and you want tight fitting and long flex head ratchets to enable you to bust stuff loose without drama. Then, long wrenches when the sockets won’t work.

Short wrenches, stubby ratchets, all come after that.

 

[KnurledNut]

I think I found the best second set of wrenches to add to my Proto combination wrench set. Icon stubby ratcheting flex head non-reversible wrenches.

I don't own a pass thru socket set, I was thinking about it, but this should cover me there, should the need arise. It won't be fun, because I might have to flex the handle 90 degrees for access, and there won't be a "stop" on the backside so I'll have to keep readjusting the wrench on the fastener, but never in my life have I needed a pass thru socket set, I just hate not being able to do something. So this will give me that added capability that I lacked before. If I wind up needing a pass thru socket set, I'll buy one, but this should get me by in the short term if something comes up.

It also gives me a stubby open end wrench for limited access. It's Icon, so not as good as Proto or SO, but it's a stubby so I can't generate much torque anyway. And because it's non-reversible, the box end is relatively slim, so should be able to give me most of the benefits of a stubby fixed box end.

And because it's flex, it might get me into some nooks I couldn't otherwise get into with a ratchet and universal socket.

It seems like this might be an amazing second set of wrenches to pair with a standard combination wrench set, for purposes of expanding capabilities. Please correct my ignorance if I'm wrong.

One advantage of the Kabo non-reversibles like the ICON is if you get the wrench stuck on a fastener head by accidentally backing it up against something, as long as you can spin it around enough to access the brass plug, it can be disassembled and free wheeled to get it free.

 

[Callelle]

One advantage of the Kabo non-reversibles like the ICON is if you get the wrench stuck on a fastener head by accidentally backing it up against something, as long as you can spin it around enough to access the brass plug, it can be disassembled and free wheeled to get it free.

This sounds kinda like one of those "ask me how I know" situations.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Buy what you need when the job demands it. Last time I did this was a speed open end wrench. Then I bought the set.

My pullers were bought for the job(s) at hand. OTC retailer(s) had one that would do the job. Bought each that way.

Kent-Moore unit-specific tools . . . figured out which tool was needed and picked it up.

Your chase would probably benefit from hex external drive sockets. The Astro 3/8" extended set covers so much ground. Dual Drive? from VIM in 1/4 is another set that would do well if you like the ratchet wrench-as-ratchet idea.

And if you're organizing everything in a hefty rolling box, don't forget to have the "take when mobile" drawer or bag or marked tools so you can cover lots of applications without taking the 9mm with you.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

Buy what you need when the job demands it. Last time I did this was a speed open end wrench. Then I bought the set.

Unfortunately I can't. I only have one car. And I dont want to have to Uber to Autozone to hope they have some Chinese **** tools that might last without breaking, and then Uber back home, bringing the total cost of the tool well above Snap On prices. I'm already going to be Ubering around trying to source parts if something breaks suddenly.

I either have to buy a second car, or I need to buy high quality tools that I don't yet need. And this is Garage Journal

And if you're organizing everything in a hefty rolling box, don't forget to have the "take when mobile" drawer or bag or marked tools so you can cover lots of applications without taking the 9mm with you.

I won't be leaving the 9mm at home.

 

[oldschoolcraft]

One advantage of the Kabo non-reversibles like the ICON is if you get the wrench stuck on a fastener head by accidentally backing it up against something, as long as you can spin it around enough to access the brass plug, it can be disassembled and free wheeled to get it free.

Can you bring the disassembled wrench back to HF for a warranty? Maybe you have to disassemble the entire set of wrenches, at the cashier's discretion?

 

[KnurledNut]

Can you bring the disassembled wrench back to HF for a warranty? Maybe you have to disassemble the entire set of wrenches, at the cashier's discretion?

If you dont send the spring into outer orbit (likely) it can be reassembled and reused, a valuable option with these unlike most other non-reversibles.
Anyways, when you get in that jam its no longer about the wrench but getting the job done.

 

[Hakeem]

I think I found the best second set of wrenches to add to my Proto combination wrench set. Icon stubby ratcheting flex head non-reversible wrenches.

I don't own a pass thru socket set, I was thinking about it, but this should cover me there, should the need arise. It won't be fun, because I might have to flex the handle 90 degrees for access, and there won't be a "stop" on the backside so I'll have to keep readjusting the wrench on the fastener, but never in my life have I needed a pass thru socket set, I just hate not being able to do something. So this will give me that added capability that I lacked before. If I wind up needing a pass thru socket set, I'll buy one, but this should get me by in the short term if something comes up.

It also gives me a stubby open end wrench for limited access. It's Icon, so not as good as Proto or SO, but it's a stubby so I can't generate much torque anyway. And because it's non-reversible, the box end is relatively slim, so should be able to give me most of the benefits of a stubby fixed box end.

And because it's flex, it might get me into some nooks I couldn't otherwise get into with a ratchet and universal socket.

It seems like this might be an amazing second set of wrenches to pair with a standard combination wrench set, for purposes of expanding capabilities. Please correct my ignorance if I'm wrong.

I have these and like them a lot, if you’re willing to play the eBay game you can find them for $100 or less, NIB. They’re not really that stubby so they work fine for general use. If you’ve ever used a flex 1/4” ratchet you know how it conforms to your hand? That’s what these remind me of.

they’ve come in clutch several times for me for taking a bolt off in some dark, recessed area where the only thing that will fit is a wrench. Ratcheting it off beats wrenching it off 1/8 turn at a time

 

[Hannahranga]

I'd recommend a set of crowsfeet spanners if you don't already. Amazing what you can do with one of them and some assorted length extensions nicely threaded into some obnoxious corner of an engine bay.

Long as you're okay with the entire contraction wildly swinging around, sticking an impact on the end normally turns the fastener enough to crack it loose before everything goes stops lining up.