Soffit vents before gutters?

[niceflipflop]

tl;dr Should I install soffit vents before hanging gutters?

Been lurking here for awhile, first post. We recently bought a 1940 house with a unfinished single car detached garage (it might be a few years younger). 20x10. Manual rollup door. One window. 2x4 framing on a brick foundation (~14" above grade) and a slab floor. Original wood siding under newish vinyl siding. I'm planning on renovating it and turning it into a small shop over the next year or so. I imagine I'll be posting here for help quite a bit as I begin the process.

http://imgur.com/a/25Q8p

It's too hot right now to do any of the serious work like insulating and finishing the walls. So I'm just looking for some quick easy wins to knock out over the next few weeks.

One thing that definitely needs to happen is gutters. I don't think it's ever had them. Drainage isn't a huge problem, as we are situated very high on a hill. But it's still not ideal. The vinyl siding is always a mess after rains and the exterminator says it's the main reason it's hard to keep bugs out. (There's also a ton of gaps between the siding and the framing, but I'm sorting that out with foam as we speak. It's already paying off.).

Anywho, I'm ready to get some gutters up. Should be a nice and easy weekend project.

However, it occurs to me that if I'm going to insulate the roof, I'll need to install some vent baffles between the rafters, a ridge vent, and soffit vents. I'm thinking I'll just replace the existing soffit paneling with vented vinyl panels down the entire length of both soffits.

But do I need to go ahead and sort out the soffit vents now, before putting up gutters? It looks like the only way I'm going to be able to get the existing soffit panels out of there is to remove the metal fascia, or at least bend it back. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure how I'll be getting those panels out of there at all. Either way, seems like new gutters are only going to make it more difficult.

Thoughts? Advice on how to remove the existing soffit panels?

Thanks!

 

[Toolfool]

Simplest DIY way would be to figure out where all your rafter tails are along your soffit, use an appropriate sized hole saw to drill holes in the flat sections of your aluminum soffit material and insert round aluminum vents. They come in various sizes. Then do your ridge venting or gable vents.

 

[niceflipflop]

Simplest DIY way would be to figure out where all your rafter tails are along your soffit, use an appropriate sized hole saw to drill holes in the flat sections of your aluminum soffit material and insert round aluminum vents. They come in various sizes. Then do your ridge venting or gable vents.

Yeah I was actually considering that route. I wasn't crazy about how multiple individual vents would look vs. a single continuous vented panel. But I suppose they're pretty flush and inconspicuous? And the gutters will also hide them to some degree.

Thanks, that might be the way to go. Cheers.

 

[rburke65]

I do have multiple vents and the 3/4" of facia that hands below thesoffithidsthe vents. I don't think it makes any difference which you do first.

 

[rob_460]

Could you zip out a slot with a circular saw, with the blade set to an appropriately shallow depth to just cut through the existing non-vented soffit material, and then install a continuous vent like one of these:

https://www.famcomfg.com/products/e...um-continuous-soffit-vent-10-lineal-feet.html

That would give you considerably more free venting area than the little round soffit vent (I've used those too, but mostly just to cover a few holes when I needed hand access to pull wire for LED soffit lights). Just a thought.

 

[The Cobbler]

either use 2 end gable vents and call it good, or remove the soffit and facia and re do as you posted.
but, is there air passage from the soffits to the underside of the roof deck? hard to tell in the photos

 

[niceflipflop]

either use 2 end gable vents and call it good, or remove the soffit and facia and re do as you posted.
but, is there air passage from the soffits to the underside of the roof deck? hard to tell in the photos

No there's no venting at all now, as the garage is completely unfinished. But I want to keep the vaulted ceiling and insulate between the rafters. So gable vents aren't an option. I need soffit to ridge venting for sure. Cheers.

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[davetulk]

will your insulation be right up against the underside of the roof sheathing? I only ask because if you have traditional framing and not trusses and plan to keep the vault....depending on what you use for insulation determines what kind of venting you need...for example spray foam between rafters and then drywall there is no venting. If you plan fiberglass with air gap then the soffit vents.

Personally I prefer the continuous vented soffit. That would be easier before gutters. But its all preference. The hole saw and round vents work just as good, just all about looks.

 

[niceflipflop]

will your insulation be right up against the underside of the roof sheathing? I only ask because if you have traditional framing and not trusses and plan to keep the vault....depending on what you use for insulation determines what kind of venting you need...for example spray foam between rafters and then drywall there is no venting. If you plan fiberglass with air gap then the soffit vents.

Personally I prefer the continuous vented soffit. That would be easier before gutters. But its all preference. The hole saw and round vents work just as good, just all about looks.

Yeah the plan is to install baffles between the rafters then batting. Not only do I want to retain the full ceiling (garage is already small as it is), but there's only three existing joists.

Ironically, I'm thinking the soffit vents are going to be a bigger pain than the ridge vent.

Since my first post, I've put an inspection cam behind the top plate and confirmed there's no other soffit material besides the aluminum. So maybe it won't be too bad getting it vented.

I really don't want to remove the entire panels. I think round vents is the way to go.

What I'm wondering now is whether I really need a vent for every rafter bay. I suppose I need to check for air passage between the bays above the soffit. If it's open, I can probably get away with just a few vents in each side?

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[niceflipflop]

Could you zip out a slot with a circular saw, with the blade set to an appropriately shallow depth to just cut through the existing non-vented soffit material, and then install a continuous vent like one of these:

https://www.famcomfg.com/products/e...um-continuous-soffit-vent-10-lineal-feet.html

That would give you considerably more free venting area than the little round soffit vent (I've used those too, but mostly just to cover a few holes when I needed hand access to pull wire for LED soffit lights). Just a thought.

Interesting, I hadn't considered that. Now that I've confirmed it's just the aluminum and no other material above it, this might be an option. Thanks!

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[davetulk]

"Joists" you mean running the width of the garage? picture would help if
you had one.

I would vent every bay because you will have no cross air movement between them so if you didn't vent you could end up with moisture in the none vented bays, purpose of venting in the first place.

 

[niceflipflop]

but, is there air passage from the soffits to the underside of the roof deck? hard to tell in the photos

Oh sorry, missed this specific question in your reply.

Actually, this is something I'll have to deal with. The siding runs past the top plate and comes very close to the decking in many places. There's maybe an inch gap in the widest places.

I'll definitely have to take a Sawzall to some of the bays to increase the gap.

Cheers.


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[niceflipflop]

"Joists" you mean running the width of the garage? picture would help if
you had one.

I would vent every bay because you will have no cross air movement between them so if you didn't vent you could end up with moisture in the none vented bays, purpose of venting in the first place.

Yep. Not sure if they technically count as "joists" in such a configuration. But they're just three 2x6s that run the width. You can see 2 of them in that interior pic in my album. It's what those two 4' LEDs are affixed to.

The third is above the door and is another issue I have to deal with. A previous owner wedged a big pallet up there. It's made of 3 4x4s and weighs a ton. Might be as old as the house.

Devising a plan now to get it out of there.

 

[davetulk]

i'd call em rafter ties but each their own lol.

one observation is the rafters are 2x4? Hard to put fiberglass up there and leave a gap for air. would hate for you to go through the trouble(money and time) of venting if no air gap.

 

[niceflipflop]

i'd call em rafter ties but each their own lol.

one observation is the rafters are 2x4? Hard to put fiberglass up there and leave a gap for air. would hate for you to go through the trouble(money and time) of venting if no air gap.

Yep, just 2x4s, but old ones so they're bigger than modern nominal. They're basically 1.75 x 3.75.

Is that an issue, even with baffles/standoffs? I thought I could just run the cheapo baffles from HD all the way to the ridge, and then pin batts up. Then cover with OSB.

Not an option? Thanks for the notes!

 

[davetulk]

you can and you will get air under the baffles. Just be careful to not compress the baffles to much they can be flimsy and cup pushing flatter against the sheathing. point is you need to ensure the gap is there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, but if in the cold country to prevent ice damns you want to keep that roof cold if you are heating the space.

Not trying to over think it, just passing along options...you know the internet options are always free......but get what you pay for lol.

 

[ayurvedam]

thank you for sharing this information.I really enjoyable to read your post.this is my first visiting of this site.

 

[niceflipflop]

you can and you will get air under the baffles. Just be careful to not compress the baffles to much they can be flimsy and cup pushing flatter against the sheathing. point is you need to ensure the gap is there. Not sure what part of the country you are in, but if in the cold country to prevent ice damns you want to keep that roof cold if you are heating the space.

Not trying to over think it, just passing along options...you know the internet options are always free......but get what you pay for lol.

No that's good stuff, thanks. I actually was looking at the baffles the other day at HD and yeah, they are pretty flimsy. But I hadn't considered that they'd collapse under the batts if compressed too much.

I think I'll bring one home and do a test.

I saw a tip on Fine Homebuilders where a guy used rigid foam panels, but scored and folded back the edges to create standoffs... Essentially making insulation with its own baffling. http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2016/06/29/rigid-foam-vent-baffles

Not sure if that's more trouble than the video suggests.

Better options out there?

I'm located in the DC area. So not cold country. Hot humid summers. But I do plan to get a window unit with heat, so that I can still use the shop year round and be moderately comfortable.