Soft floor, what to do?

[Bchristie78]

First time posting….

A little background on my garage. It’s a detached 2 car with a single overhead door and a man door. The house is 100 years old, not sure when the garage was built. I’m converting it into a useful garage with electricity, lighting, air compressor etc . Basically my own personal shop to build the 53 f100 I’m working on. So here are my issues, I currently have the truck on car dolly’s and the bed of the truck is on a seperate cart that has 6” caster wheels. I have noticed that after even just a few days the wheels have created enough of a depression into the floor(not concrete) that it makes it very difficult to roll the car dolly’s or the bed cart. That’s problem #1, problem #2 is that at the overhead door the garage floor is lower than the driveway by an inch or 2.

Question 1. Can I use something like epoxy over the existing floor to make it stronger? Would like to get rid of the “softness” of it. Li would obviously fill the existing depressions to make it flat. It almost seems like some sort of asphalt-but it’s a smaller “grain” if that makes sense.

Question 2. What would be strong enough-and reasonably priced-that I could level the floor with at anywhere from 1/4” to 2” thick? Something strong enough to be able to roll caster wheels and not have it chew up the floor from the weight.

If I can get away with just making the existing floor harder I would be happy with that outcome and not worry about leveling it out to the driveway height.

I apologize, this post got longer than I intended. I can get some pictures later today if it helps. Thanks in advance for any helpful advice/suggestions

 

[Old tool guy]

The floor isn’t concrete … dirt? Wood framed like a house?

 

[Shiftless]

I would obviously fill the existing depressions to make it flat. It almost seems like some sort of asphalt-but it’s a smaller “grain” if that makes sense.

Sounds like some kind of second rate road material. If you are going to upgrade the garage as planned, I think you won’t be happy with any bandaid approach. If you can stretch your budget you should consider ripping it out and pouring a proper concrete floor. If you pour on top of the existing floor, it might be OK or might not. Check with a local concrete guy to see if he has any experience with that particular material your current floor is made of and whether an overlay is feasible or not.

Good luck and BTW…welcome to Garage Journal

 

[dcg9381]

Question 1. Can I use something like epoxy over the existing floor to make it stronger?

You can use epoxy, it'll help seal the floor, but it'll provide zero structural strength.

Question 2. What would be strong enough-and reasonably priced-that I could level the floor with at anywhere from 1/4” to 2” thick? Something strong enough to be able to roll caster wheels and not have it chew up the floor from the weight.

I think this is a non-started, if the floor is flexing, very few materials will help.

Can you get in the crawl-space or basement to see what is under there?

 

[PCustoms]

Until we know what the floor is we really can't give a valid response...

 

[Shiftless]

Dry mud set and thin pavers would give you a new solid surface but I don’t think you’d be happy with that for a working garage. Driveway? yes. Garage floor? Not so much.

 

[Bchristie78]

The floor isn’t concrete … dirt? Wood framed like a house?

In my original post I mentioned it’s like asphalt, but not quite.

 

[Bchristie78]

You can use epoxy, it'll help seal the floor, but it'll provide zero structural strength.



I think this is a non-started, if the floor is flexing, very few materials will help.

Can you get in the crawl-space or basement to see what is under there?

Detached garage as mentioned in my original post

 

[Bchristie78]

Until we know what the floor is we really can't give a valid response...

I will try to get some pictures after work to help with a visual

 

[dcg9381]

Detached garage as mentioned in my original post

Detached garages here that are not on concrete can have craw spaces... Sounds like you've got one that has some sort of wood framed sub-floor.

If the underlying structure is good, can't you just "deck over" this with "more substantial" flooring material?

 

[Shiftless]

If the underlying structure is good, can't you just "deck over" this with "more substantial" flooring material?

Yeah... Maybe the O.P. could level the existing floor with sand and then lay plywood over the sand and somehow fasten the edges together so warping wouldn’t raise up the edges. Some guys might think that was good enough. And some guys wouldn’t.

What‘s the minimum thickness for a concrete pour over existing floors?

 

[dcg9381]

What‘s the minimum thickness for a concrete pour over existing floors?

Concrete is only as good as what's under it. Which is why foundations are "engineered". I'd never do concrete over wood. A 4'x8' slab 4" thick looks to weigh over 800 lbs.

 

[Shiftless]

Concrete is only as good as what's under it. Which is why foundations are "engineered". I'd never do concrete over wood. A 4'x8' slab 4" thick looks to weigh over 800 lbs.

Absolutely right.
I was assuming this soft asphalt like floor is over dirt. The OP’s detached garage might be nearly 100 years old so I bet it’s dirt underneath. The softness he is talking about is probably just the point loads squishing into the “asphalt”.

 

[Bchristie78]

Detached garages here that are not on concrete can have craw spaces... Sounds like you've got one that has some sort of wood framed sub-floor.

If the underlying structure is good, can't you just "deck over" this with "more substantial" flooring material?

It’s 100% not a wood framed floor

 

[Bchristie78]

Concrete is only as good as what's under it. Which is why foundations are "engineered". I'd never do concrete over wood. A 4'x8' slab 4" thick looks to weigh over 800 lbs.

It’s not wood

 

[Bchristie78]

Absolutely right.
I was assuming this soft asphalt like floor is over dirt. The OP’s detached garage might be nearly 100 years old so I bet it’s dirt underneath. The softness he is talking about is probably just the point loads squishing into the “asphalt”.

This is exactly what’s happening. It’s not “caving in” it’s just creating impressions of the wheels exactly where they are at—-point loads as you called them.

 

[dcg9381]

It’s not wood

ahh.. got it. You've got a "soft" surface of some type.. Missed that, sorry... And want to put something "harder" above it.

 

[Bchristie78]

ahh.. got it. You've got a "soft" surface of some type.. Missed that, sorry... And want to put something "harder" above it.

Correct. Was hoping something like a double coat of expoxy or something like that would harden it up

 

[MovingAlong]

Correct. Was hoping something like a double coat of expoxy or something like that would harden it up

Save your money until ready to do it correctly. No need to pay for something that isn't going to work and might double your removal costs down the line.

Meanwhile, try putting out 2' x 2' pads of 3/4 plywood and see if that doesn't spread the load a bit...

 

[tinmanwpk]

I was thinking to use some 1/8" tk steel pads.

 

[nadogail]

Covering your existing floor with two layers of 1/2" plywood, laminated with glue and screws; staggered so that the joints are separated should make your floor plenty stiff enough if it is well supported.

A floor of reinforced concrete on a properly compacted base IMHO would be preferable.

 

[Shea]

Correct. Was hoping something like a double coat of expoxy or something like that would harden it up

Epoxy and coatings in general do not add structural support of any kind. That is why they are applied to concrete. They will not adhere to asphalt or oily bases either. Unfortunately, there really isn't a typical garage flooring product that would solve your issue

I'm assuming ripping out the material and placing a proper concrete floor is out of the budget. You might need to get creative with the members about alternate flooring solutions that involve wood.

 

[tinmanwpk]

Or steel sheets.

 

[The Cobbler]

looks like an asphalt product , depresses like an asphalt product, the duck goes quack so it's probably asphalt .
best as said, if you can swing it, remove it, prep base & pour a floor. that will solve all of your problems with the way it is now.

 

[Bchristie78]

So I chipped up a piece of the floor with a pry bar. It is most definitely some sort of asphalt, but a much finer “grain” than what my driveway is made out of. What would the harm be in pouring concrete over top of this? I mean, I’m no expert(obviously) but concrete is typically poured over a layer of stone or directly on dirt-neither of which is as solid, in my opinion, than my existing floor. The weight that is creating impressions in my existing floor would create even worse/deeper impressions in dirt. So I don’t see why concrete wouldn’t work here

 

[benjy]

So I chipped up a piece of the floor with a pry bar. It is most definitely some sort of asphalt, but a much finer “grain” than what my driveway is made out of. What would the harm be in pouring concrete over top of this? I mean, I’m no expert(obviously) but concrete is typically poured over a layer of stone or directly on dirt-neither of which is as solid, in my opinion, than my existing floor. The weight that is creating impressions in my existing floor would create even worse/deeper impressions in dirt. So I don’t see why concrete wouldn’t work here

If you can park a vehicle on that over a weekend without leaving indents, I'd be comfortable putting a 4" reinforced slab over that - vapor barrier is already done.

 

[Bchristie78]

If you can park a vehicle on that over a weekend without leaving indents, I'd be comfortable putting a 4" reinforced slab over that - vapor barrier is already done.

Vehicle weight itself isn’t an issue, it’s currently sitting on rolling car dolly’s that have 3” metal wheels in the first picture you can see the wheel on the right and one of the indents it made on the left. It took a few months for it to get that deep-and it’s not even 3/16” deep. It’s just a pain to roll the car dolly’s on the current surface from dents and imperfections accumulated from who knows how long

 

[Old tool guy]

Picture 962 looks like painted asphalt.

If you want to pour concrete on top of that, just make sure the concrete is 4” thick.

 

[benjy]

Vehicle weight itself isn’t an issue, it’s currently sitting on rolling car dolly’s that have 3” metal wheels in the first picture you can see the wheel on the right and one of the indents it made on the left. It took a few months for it to get that deep-and it’s not even 3/16” deep. It’s just a pain to roll the car dolly’s on the current surface from dents and imperfections accumulated from who knows how long

Sounds like you need to move things around more often