Solar electric

[truckman5000]

I typed this reply, then the post became locked some how. Before i was done typing...SO,

Id love to here from someone who, knows about solar electricity.

What brand panels are good. I pay more than normal for the power around here.






My reply...
Wondering also. And i was about to make a post in the "free parking"..But came across your post.


I pay .16-18c per kil. here. All electric. So my pay back period would be less, than someone with .5c..or less. We pay alot here.

I need at least 10k panels. And they would cover my back roof.

Home depot sells the kit i need. In a "kit" but i dont trust them ect.

Even at that 23k for the panels/ inverter. + 6k on the brackets+ tax. Almost 30k for a no name home depot brand.

But with 30-50% tax rebates. Installed my self+ all the additional ****.
Say 40k 50% tax. so 20k Final bill.

If i save $200(bill is 260) a month.x 100 months= 20k. So if my math is right. 9 years to break even.

Then there warren tee is 10years.

So + prev. maint. + ect. every year. I dont know.

I need someone to sell me on this.

I would love to here from someone that has a "connection" as to where to buy the panels (great quality). And then Buy everything else.

Ive done alot of googling. But have not found much...

 

[philip_g]

tagging along because the topic interests me as well and I know very little about it.

 

[Will67]

First I would vist the federal US department of energy website DSIRE and verify tax incentives you list. FYI federal ceased in 2009. 30-50% seems pretty high tax rebate for a state or utility company.

Also visit solarpaneltalk.com lots of information to be had.

Oh, also most incentive programs will not give you squat if you instal it yourself (at least mine won't).

 

[PDR John]

Check to see if your state has net metering laws. Without net metering you won't get full pay back as quickly.

 

[HOTFR8]

Not going to be of much help to you from my part of the world but I can tell you going over to Solar is a good thing. My system has battery backup when the power fails I that to me is the best thing I ever did, specialy in the summer when I need the cooler going.

 

[truckman5000]

all i know is ive been in customers houses that have solar. And they have monitors, that monitor; So the utility company pays you back $$$ you gave them.
But these are huge systems. And a 10k system will net 75% of my electric bill. But this is my calculation....

 

[truckman5000]

First I would vist the federal US department of energy website DSIRE and verify tax incentives you list. FYI federal ceased in 2009. 30-50% seems pretty high tax rebate for a state or utility company.

Also visit solarpaneltalk.com lots of information to be had.

Oh, also most incentive programs will not give you squat if you instal it yourself (at least mine won't).

Thanks, will look into it.

 

[buzz4041]

I would look into other suppliers besides a big box store for a solar system. Google is your friend and be prepared to do a lot of reading. Good luck and keep us updated on your choices.

 

[HOTFR8]

Look to others near you with Solar and ask who they used.

 

[JC23]

Look to others near you with Solar and ask who they used.

And ask em they'd go with Em again - why or why not?

 

[HOTFR8]

And ask em they'd go with Em again - why or why not?

Yes some one near you that has installed Solar should be able to recomend a good firm to use.

 

[dahur]

First of all, if your state has net metering with the utility, then I really doubt you would need a system as large as 10KW.
If off grid, then yeah.

I can only tell you about here in NM.
I have a 3.6KW that has allowed me to pay zero for the 2 1/2 years I've had it, and because of the contract I signed with PNM, I also get a check from them every month for the EXCESS I generate. I have propane hot water, and furnace, the rest is electric. 5 ton 10 SEER AC used in the summer months. Electric golf cart used every day. 2200 sq ft home.
Feds paid for 30% of cost, NM 10%. To get the tax credit from NM, they want a certified solar installer to do the work, no DIY's. The State inspector here was pretty picky.
Less than eight years for payback.
No battery, or generator back up...don't lose power very often.
However when we do, I'm dead in the water just like everyone else.

If considering to do it yourself...take care..! If you don't install a disconnect, or don't make for sure the one you've got works properly..you could be setting yourself up for a BIG problem. During power outages, if you send your power out to the grid, (no disconnect), you could electrocute a utility linesman. This is why utilities, and the State usually want certified installers.

Insurance: Do you want to insure your panels against loss or theft..? I did.
When I first moved here 4 years ago, NM didn't have a property tax exemption for solar, which made no sense. Fortunately other people realized this too, and we now have an exemption. Does your state...? If not, expect the value of your system to get added to your property value and corresponding increase in your property taxes.
Just some things to consider.
Given all that, I really think it's the best investment I've ever made, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I love having a zero bill every month.

 

[hh76]

First I would vist the federal US department of energy website DSIRE and verify tax incentives you list. FYI federal ceased in 2009. 30-50% seems pretty high tax rebate for a state or utility company.

Also visit solarpaneltalk.com lots of information to be had.

Oh, also most incentive programs will not give you squat if you instal it yourself (at least mine won't).

You still get a 30% tax credit

Look to others near you with Solar and ask who they used.

Also look at the NABCEP website and find some installers in your area

http://www.nabcep.org/

First of all, if your state has net metering with the utility, then I really doubt you would need a system as large as 10KW.
If off grid, then yeah.

I can only tell you about here in NM.
I have a 3.6KW that has allowed me to pay zero for the 2 1/2 years I've had it, and because of the contract I signed with PNM, I also get a check from them every month for the EXCESS I generate. I have propane hot water, and furnace, the rest is electric. 5 ton 10 SEER AC used in the summer months. Electric golf cart used every day. 2200 sq ft home.
Feds paid for 30% of cost, NM 10%. To get the tax credit from NM, they want a certified solar installer to do the work, no DIY's. The State inspector here was pretty picky.
Less than eight years for payback.
No battery, or generator back up...don't lose power very often.
However when we do, I'm dead in the water just like everyone else.

If considering to do it yourself...take care..! If you don't install a disconnect, or don't make for sure the one you've got works properly..you could be setting yourself up for a BIG problem. During power outages, if you send your power out to the grid, (no disconnect), you could electrocute a utility linesman. This is why utilities, and the State usually want certified installers.

Insurance: Do you want to insure your panels against loss or theft..? I did.
When I first moved here 4 years ago, NM didn't have a property tax exemption for solar, which made no sense. Fortunately other people realized this too, and we now have an exemption. Does your state...? If not, expect the value of your system to get added to your property value and corresponding increase in your property taxes.
Just some things to consider.
Given all that, I really think it's the best investment I've ever made, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I love having a zero bill every month.

The inverter would prevent power from feeding back to the utility, as long as it's UL listed for grid tie.



Solar is what I do for a living, and I've been doing it for 10yrs. In my opinion it is not a DIY project, at least not yet. A pro, who has solar experience, will be able to get better pricing, and will be able to navigate the permitting and utility approval process. And as stated earlier, you may need it to be professionally installed to qualify for local rebates.

I'm not all that impressed with 30grand for materials, and think that you could do a lot better through a local installer.

Shop around, and make sure that you look for someone who has installed more than a few systems.

 

[Toymeister]

First I would vist the federal US department of energy website DSIRE and verify tax incentives you list. FYI federal ceased in 2009. 30-50% seems pretty high tax rebate for a state or utility company.

Also visit solarpaneltalk.com lots of information to be had.

Oh, also most incentive programs will not give you squat if you instal it yourself (at least mine won't).

it ended in 2011, the federal credit, if that matters...

 

[hh76]

it ended in 2011, the federal credit, if that matters...

Still around for a couple more years. http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F&re=1&ee=1

 

[dahur]

Still around for a couple more years. http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F&re=1&ee=1

Yeah, I thought it was 2016.

 

[Stuart in MN]

This doesn't have anything to do with a residential install, but I just read it in the Minneapolis paper during lunch and thought it was interesting:

Swedish furniture retailer Ikea is now generating electricity atop its store in Bloomington near the Mall of America.

Depending on sunshine, the 142,000 square feet of solar panels will generate up to 80 percent of the store's electrical needs, Ikea spokeswoman Brooke Nelson said Tuesday.

The 1-megawatt system is the largest solar array in Minnesota. It generates the equivalent of the power needed by 100 homes, or roughly the output of one small wind turbine.

The Bloomington store marks the 31st U.S. solar project for Ikea, with eight more locations in development. The company said it has invested $590 million in renewable energy projects around the world.

SoCore Energy, based in Chicago, designed the system for the Bloomington store.
Unlike some large solar arrays, Ikea's won't sell excess electricity back to the local utility, Nelson said.

It's unlikely to remain the largest in Minnesota for long. A 2-megawatt project near Slayton, Minn., is slated to begin construction next month, said Chris Little, development director for Ecos Energy, the project's sponsor.

A big box store is probably a great place for solar panels - since they have big giant roofs on their buildings they may as well put something up there.

 

[Teken]

This doesn't have anything to do with a residential install, but I just read it in the Minneapolis paper during lunch and thought it was interesting:

Swedish furniture retailer Ikea is now generating electricity atop its store in Bloomington near the Mall of America.

Depending on sunshine, the 142,000 square feet of solar panels will generate up to 80 percent of the store's electrical needs, Ikea spokeswoman Brooke Nelson said Tuesday.

The 1-megawatt system is the largest solar array in Minnesota. It generates the equivalent of the power needed by 100 homes, or roughly the output of one small wind turbine.

The Bloomington store marks the 31st U.S. solar project for Ikea, with eight more locations in development. The company said it has invested $590 million in renewable energy projects around the world.

SoCore Energy, based in Chicago, designed the system for the Bloomington store.
Unlike some large solar arrays, Ikea's won't sell excess electricity back to the local utility, Nelson said.

It's unlikely to remain the largest in Minnesota for long. A 2-megawatt project near Slayton, Minn., is slated to begin construction next month, said Chris Little, development director for Ecos Energy, the project's sponsor.

A big box store is probably a great place for solar panels - since they have big giant roofs on their buildings they may as well put something up there.

Stuart,

Why do you think Ikea would NOT sell back their electricity to the POCO? Would it not make sense to have a credit or refund from the utility, which would reduce monthly costs?

Teken . . .

 

[hh76]

Stuart,

Why do you think Ikea would NOT sell back their electricity to the POCO? Would it not make sense to have a credit or refund from the utility, which would reduce monthly costs?

Teken . . .

If the store is using 100% of the power produced, there would be no excess power for the utility to buy.

Every utility is different, and I'm sure every possible rate/buyback option was weighed.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I have some questions too...

How much (average or approx) layout of out of pocket costs for a solar array for a standard 2 story residential home? I don't need exacting figures, only because there are obviously way too many variables (sq. ft., zoning, location, size of system needed, State/Town fees/costs, etc). I don't think any setup is or would be totally 100% "free" of no out of pocket costs.

Also, with a solar array that would be mounted to the residential roof, what happens when say the roof would eventually need to be replaced in the future? Does the Solar Installer do an inspection of the entire roof (exterior & interior structure) to determine if a solar array can be installed - dependant on the existing "life" left in the installed roof (shingles)?

How long after the out of pocket expense to get Solar can the Home Owner expect to see any cost savings?

Can anyone point me into a good direction for NJ related Solar incentives/costs/etc?

I've seen quite a few residential homes within my local area sport newly installed Solar panels on their roofs, some of which span the entire roofing structure - so, I'm guessing these folks are doing it to benefit themselves in one way or another...

Thx!

 

[Falcon67]

You still get a 30% tax credit



Also look at the NABCEP website and find some installers in your area

http://www.nabcep.org/



The inverter would prevent power from feeding back to the utility, as long as it's UL listed for grid tie.



Solar is what I do for a living, and I've been doing it for 10yrs. In my opinion it is not a DIY project, at least not yet. A pro, who has solar experience, will be able to get better pricing, and will be able to navigate the permitting and utility approval process. And as stated earlier, you may need it to be professionally installed to qualify for local rebates.

I'm not all that impressed with 30grand for materials, and think that you could do a lot better through a local installer.

Shop around, and make sure that you look for someone who has installed more than a few systems.

I would consider doing it as a DIY here, but there's no permit requirements and - last I looked - Texas has no rebate to help with the cost, so the payback is longer. I do think solar is exempt from the tax hit. So to even try and make it affordable, I'd have to shop the panels, build mounts and do the rest of it. We're on a co-op, so as long as they look at the equipment and it's OK with their engineers, we're good. I would not consider anything less than a grid tie inverter anyway.

What I don't know is whether our co-op will do net metering. As an "also last I looked", net metering was maybe/maybe not in the Texas utility tariff. And co-ops are exempt from a lot of the state power rules anyhow. The utility does sell a package 8kV system if I recall right. We'd be making payments on the system and probably not on power LOL. I'd be happy if we could get 3~5kW up on the roof. The shop roof is perfect for a solar install and the shop is tied directly into the meter base with 100A cable. We pay .0115/kWh now so that would speed payback.

Probably less hassle to build a solar array than to try and convince the AEP people that they have a pole 20' from our pole. We'd cut 2~3 cents per kWh if we hoked up with AEP. But those poles don't seem to be in their computer (although I'm sure billing gets the bills to the right addresses) so "we don't service your area" LOL. Whatever. I will say that even though we pay more with the co-op, if there is a problem they are on it like stink. Good folks, easy to deal with. There was a problem in the alley last year during/after a storm and we had 4 utility trucks and a dozen guys in the rain at 3AM gettin' er done.

 

[hh76]

I have some questions too...

How much (average or approx) layout of out of pocket costs for a solar array for a standard 2 story residential home? I don't need exacting figures, only because there are obviously way too many variables (sq. ft., zoning, location, size of system needed, State/Town fees/costs, etc). I don't think any setup is or would be totally 100% "free" of no out of pocket costs.

I've put together recent quotes from about $2.50-$4/watt installed. Mostly depends on how the array will be mounted, and how much labor will be involved. Normal residential systems are anywhere from 2kw to 10kw. That's before any incentives are calculated.

Also, with a solar array that would be mounted to the residential roof, what happens when say the roof would eventually need to be replaced in the future? Does the Solar Installer do an inspection of the entire roof (exterior & interior structure) to determine if a solar array can be installed - dependant on the existing "life" left in the installed roof (shingles)?

Any good installer will perform a roof inspection. If the roof is nearing it's end of life, it should be replaced. The array will last 25yrs+, so don't put it on a roof that will need replacing soon. The federal tax credit of 30% can be applied to the re-roofing that needs to be done to facilitate the solar array.

How long after the out of pocket expense to get Solar can the Home Owner expect to see any cost savings?

As soon as the system is turned on, your power bills will be lower. Lot's of factors go into determining how long it will take to recover it's initial cost.

Can anyone point me into a good direction for NJ related Solar incentives/costs/etc?

http://www.dsireusa.org/ I know NJ has been one of the leading states when it comes to solar electric, which means that there are probably good incentives available. Talk to a local installer to get more info about what is available.

I've seen quite a few residential homes within my local area sport newly installed Solar panels on their roofs, some of which span the entire roofing structure - so, I'm guessing these folks are doing it to benefit themselves in one way or another...

Most of my customers look at it as a financial investment that allows them to brag about their commitment to the environment. Also a good way to hedge against rising energy costs.

Thx!

Good source for local installers

http://www.nabcep.org/

 

[hh76]

I would consider doing it as a DIY here, but there's no permit requirements and - last I looked - Texas has no rebate to help with the cost, so the payback is longer. I do think solar is exempt from the tax hit. So to even try and make it affordable, I'd have to shop the panels, build mounts and do the rest of it. We're on a co-op, so as long as they look at the equipment and it's OK with their engineers, we're good. I would not consider anything less than a grid tie inverter anyway.

What I don't know is whether our co-op will do net metering. As an "also last I looked", net metering was maybe/maybe not in the Texas utility tariff. And co-ops are exempt from a lot of the state power rules anyhow. The utility does sell a package 8kV system if I recall right. We'd be making payments on the system and probably not on power LOL. I'd be happy if we could get 3~5kW up on the roof. The shop roof is perfect for a solar install and the shop is tied directly into the meter base with 100A cable. We pay .0115/kWh now so that would speed payback.

Probably less hassle to build a solar array than to try and convince the AEP people that they have a pole 20' from our pole. We'd cut 2~3 cents per kWh if we hoked up with AEP. But those poles don't seem to be in their computer (although I'm sure billing gets the bills to the right addresses) so "we don't service your area" LOL. Whatever. I will say that even though we pay more with the co-op, if there is a problem they are on it like stink. Good folks, easy to deal with. There was a problem in the alley last year during/after a storm and we had 4 utility trucks and a dozen guys in the rain at 3AM gettin' er done.

Usually you can just give them a call and ask. For most small utilities, they don't want to go through the hassle of seperately metering the solar, so they just allow you to spin your meter backwards.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not going to be of much help to you from my part of the world but I can tell you going over to Solar is a good thing.

So tell us about your system ! (pics would be nice)

How many sq meters of solar panels ?

How many batteries/cell ? Battery bank A/Hr rating ? System DC voltage ?

Inverter capacity and brand.

Do you sell back to the PoCo ?

 

[66HertzClone]

I have some questions too...

How much (average or approx) layout of out of pocket costs for a solar array for a standard 2 story residential home? I don't need exacting figures, only because there are obviously way too many variables (sq. ft., zoning, location, size of system needed, State/Town fees/costs, etc). I don't think any setup is or would be totally 100% "free" of no out of pocket costs.

Also, with a solar array that would be mounted to the residential roof, what happens when say the roof would eventually need to be replaced in the future? Does the Solar Installer do an inspection of the entire roof (exterior & interior structure) to determine if a solar array can be installed - dependant on the existing "life" left in the installed roof (shingles)?

How long after the out of pocket expense to get Solar can the Home Owner expect to see any cost savings?


Can anyone point me into a good direction for NJ related Solar incentives/costs/etc?

I've seen quite a few residential homes within my local area sport newly installed Solar panels on their roofs, some of which span the entire roofing structure - so, I'm guessing these folks are doing it to benefit themselves in one way or another...

Thx!

At the current time I don't think it makes sense financially in NJ. The extra energy is sold thru credits, the value of these has fallen from the $600 level to the current rate shown here. SREC I was fortunate to that that high credit for a few months, the price dropped, I sold more at $300 level, it dropped again, I sold more at $120, and if you clicked on that link you can see what they are now. Sigh

Our out of pocket was 38K after the state funded rebate program that is now over. At that time the projected break even was 3 1/2 years, that idea has faded away a long time ago.

 

[Teken]

At the current time I don't think it makes sense financially in NJ. The extra energy is sold thru credits, the value of these has fallen from the $600 level to the current rate shown here. SREC I was fortunate to that that high credit for a few months, the price dropped, I sold more at $300 level, it dropped again, I sold more at $120, and if you clicked on that link you can see what they are now. Sigh

Our out of pocket was 38K after the state funded rebate program that is now over. At that time the projected break even was 3 1/2 years, that idea has faded away a long time ago.

I clicked on your link. I am not sure what it is I am supposed to glean from this listing?

Could you please explain to me the 2011, 2012, 2013 charts?

Teken . . .

 

[66HertzClone]

The years are when the credits are generated, so if one had credits they didn't sell in 2011, that would be what they would be paid.

 

[Teken]

The years are when the credits are generated, so if one had credits they didn't sell in 2011, that would be what they would be paid.

Can you define the credit for me? It looks to me like its not in actual Kwh / dollars?

Meaning if I generated $100.00 that month extra, I would have a direct credit on my POCO bill of $100.00

So, for example if my monthly bill for August was $120.00, with a $100.00 credit. The only out of pocket expense would be the remaining $20.00.

How does your credit system work? As it indicates 25+ to call in etc?

Teken . . .

 

[dahur]

All states are different. I "think" in NJ, every Megawatt you generate (million watts), is 1 credit. And I believe you can set it up with a broker to sell your energy credits on the open market. I may be wrong about this, but I think this is how NJ is set up. NJ used to have the best deal in the U.S.

Here in NM it's not like that. We have a separate meter that records just what the system generates. And that pays me 13 cents for every KW. or that's $130 for every megawatt, for the 13 year life of my contract. When that meter is spinning, my main meter is either stopped, slowed down, or spinning backwards. When that happens I get paid whatever PNM charges, currently 10 cents, added to the 13 cents. Kinda complicated, but it amounts to 23 cents when the sun is shining. Then they send me a check at the end of the month for whatever I generate in excess of what I use.

 

[Teken]

All states are different. I "think" in NJ, every Megawatt you generate (million watts), is 1 credit. And I believe you can set it up with a broker to sell your energy credits on the open market. I may be wrong about this, but I think this is how NJ is set up. NJ used to have the best deal in the U.S.

Here in NM it's not like that. We have a separate meter that records just what the system generates. And that pays me 13 cents for every KW. or that's $130 for every megawatt, for the 13 year life of my contract. When that meter is spinning, my main meter is either stopped, slowed down, or spinning backwards. When that happens I get paid whatever PMN charges, currently 10 cents, added to the 13 cents. Kinda complicated, but it amounts to 23 cents when the sun is shining. Then they send me a check at the end of the month for whatever I generate in excess of what I use.

OK, that makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks much for taking the time to dumb it down for me. I wasn't quite sure how they calculated this *credit* thing with the chart I was looking it.

Teken . . .

 

[66HertzClone]

All states are different. I "think" in NJ, every Megawatt you generate (million watts), is 1 credit. And I believe you can set it up with a broker to sell your energy credits on the open market. I may be wrong about this, but I think this is how NJ is set up. NJ used to have the best deal in the U.S.

Here in NM it's not like that. We have a separate meter that records just what the system generates. And that pays me 13 cents for every KW. or that's $130 for every megawatt, for the 13 year life of my contract. When that meter is spinning, my main meter is either stopped, slowed down, or spinning backwards. When that happens I get paid whatever PMN charges, currently 10 cents, added to the 13 cents. Kinda complicated, but it amounts to 23 cents when the sun is shining. Then they send me a check at the end of the month for whatever I generate in excess of what I use.

That is correct

 

[HOTFR8]

So tell us about your system ! (pics would be nice)

OK, I have posted photos in another earlier topic on Solar so will not double up again.

How many sq meters of solar panels ?

24 panels in all 12 - 80 watt and 12 - 95 watt. Also 2 60 watt on a smaller system that runs my office. Should be a photo in my Sheddwellers extension topic to save posting again.

How many batteries/cell ? Battery bank A/Hr rating ? System DC voltage ?

Bigger system has two 24 Volt batteries. Selectronic Selectronic XP Pro Invertor.

The two banks of panels run to the Bushmaster controllers then to the Invertor.

Smaller system runs two 6 Volt batteries.

Inverter capacity and brand.

Selectronic > http://www.selectronic.com.au/sppro/

Do you sell back to the PoCo ?

Yes, presently looking at changing power companies for a better deal.

 

[PrecisionTools]

How long have you had the SP for Hotfr8?

 

[HOTFR8]

How long have you had the SP for Hotfr8?

The smaller UPS system that runs my office has been up for many years now and has served me well with power failures etc. as I have been able to keep using the computer, fax, phone etc. The bigger system has not been in that long only a couple of years but in the last 6 months the latest 12 panels have been added to the system. Today has been a good Solar day here.

 

[ZRX61]

The panels used by SunRun are warrantied for 20 years or more.

Average cost for an entire set up (before rebates) is about $80K if you want to get off the grid.

House I'm in has Verengo/SunRun set up. SCE bill went from $340/month to $32.00.. but another $200 to Sunrun as they own the panels.
The way it works is SCE still supplies tier 1, but Tier2-5 (6?) is from the panels AND they garantee no prices rise for the first 20 years... just think what SCE will be charging NEXT year, let alone in 20 years.. There's already talk of 80% increases in some places were coal plants have shut down owing to the latest EPA ********.

It's nice watching SCE's meter spin backwards during the day

 

[PrecisionTools]

The bigger system has not been in that long only a couple of years but in the last 6 months the latest 12 panels have been added to the system. Today has been a good Solar day here.

There is a bit of me in your inverter then, there is a pretty good chance that I did the final test & inspection on your unit.

 

[Larry_AZ]

We have been looking into solar for a while, and we have decided to go with
http://go.solarcity.com/2012/promo/br_az/why-solarcity-416M3-22175N.html

They offer a lease program, instead of purchasing.
They install, and maintain the system.
They also get any incentives that are offered.

 

[HOTFR8]

There is a bit of me in your inverter then, there is a pretty good chance that I did the final test & inspection on your unit.

So do you know Ivan Carter at Selectronic ?

 

[PrecisionTools]

So do you know Ivan Carter at Selectronic ?

Sure do.

 

[philip_g]

We have been looking into solar for a while, and we have decided to go with
http://go.solarcity.com/2012/promo/br_az/why-solarcity-416M3-22175N.html

They offer a lease program, instead of purchasing.
They install, and maintain the system.
They also get any incentives that are offered.

what did the lease cost you?