Solar garage

[captain14]

Good recycling job on the insulation. Did you get enough to finish completely yet. Every bit saved allows more tool money.

 

[bobbyu]

What is Roxull offcuts? How do you get them to stay between the studs? Glue?

 

[Edgemonton]

I can't imagine how much of a pain it was to clean your car out after hauling insulation in it!

You have no idea. Much time was spent with a compressor and vacuum trying to get it all out.

 

[Edgemonton]

What is Roxull offcuts? How do you get them to stay between the studs? Glue?

This grade of Roxull being made for industrial applications means it is fairly rigid. These are offcuts because they were the ends of sheets that were cut down to make them fit into the wall of the building being insulated.

I simply cut the pieces to width and shoved them in. I am lucky to have 2x6 double studded walls allowing two layers of Roxull to cover any gaps between the first layer with a second.

Shown below are the east and west walls. Having insulated only the first layer at this point makes the double stud construction more visible.

 

[ryanp77]

Looking good. I like the idea of the solar garage.

 

[sean Buick 76]

Good job saving money with the insulation that would have been in the land fill.... I am in Edmonton as well and I am VERY interested in how the Solar works for you! Please send me a PM if you want to chat about the solar off of your thread here... Sean

 

[Edgemonton]

Good job packing that car full, and saving money by recycling all that (essentially new) insulation.

Will be nice to see the array go up on this, too bad grid tied systems don't allow you to pull any power for your own garage, but then with what they pay you per kw/h, it makes more sense anyways (assuming Alberta's rates are similar to Ontario's).

I would like to address this comment; I am not really sure what you are getting at.

My electrical service comes into my garage through a two way meter, from the panel board inside my garage I feed the loads in my garage and a feed for my house. From this I also have a 40A breaker that my Sunnyboy inverter feeds in. The power produced will go to feed my entire house and garage loads with any excess feeding back through the meter into the grid.
I hope this answers you. Feel free to ask more.

Unfortunately we here in Alberta live in a very backwards form of governance. Through a loophole in our local regulator we were able to sign on with energy providers willing to pay a premium (15 cents/kWh). However upon a recent review even this was removed, as I was told when asking an ENMAX representative "was removed to make the market fair for everyone". Sure, the coal plants get ZERO subsidies...

Enough rant for now.

 

[Edgemonton]

Good job saving money with the insulation that would have been in the land fill.... I am in Edmonton as well and I am VERY interested in how the Solar works for you! Please send me a PM if you want to chat about the solar off of your thread here... Sean

Thanks for the interest, feel free to ask any questions you have here. Certainly I am sure everyone else would benefit from any discussion on the matter.

Full disclosure, I have spent over a year professionally installing solar, this is just a fulfilment of my desire to have my own system.

 

[Edgemonton]

October 21, 2013 - I picked up all the materials for the solar mounting system.
Trying a new flashing product this time (Zilla flashings), I did a test run to see how installation would go.

The remainder of the racking system is the Conergy brand racking system.

 

[1/2 Cup]

Your build is looking great, well done.
I have just had a 6 KW system put on my shed, we get a whole 8 cents per KWH feedin tarriff out here!

Cheers

 

[madoc1]

this solar instal will be fun to watch.

jim

 

[Edgemonton]

At this point I was starting to cut it close to the first snowfall; ideally I wanted to get both the solar and the wood burning fireplace in before snow and winter set in. Crucial to all this is getting all the work dealing with shingles done. I had already pushed hard on the roof to get all the shingles in.

Installing of the chimney and associated flashing was the next big priority and so I got to it.

First was to build the support for the weight of all the sections of chimney, using joist hangers and some scrap 2x10. Vapour barrier and the ceiling material (3/8 plywood) was installed and to make things easier later was also painted white.

Installed the base of the sections.

Dropped the first section down through.

And installing the insulation shield in the attic.

Final product.

 

[UrsusMaritimus]

Would love to see some updates on this thread

 

[Scottishross]

Stunning garage mate stunning

 

[4AudiQ]

Subscribed!
Great build.
When we were living in Orange County, Calif., we had solar shingles installed
on our house roof at the same time we re-roofed the house.
I kept very accurate records of electricity until we sold the house. If anyone is interested in my Excel spreadsheet of those records month by month, please PM me.
I think this is the only picture I could find:

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Edgemonton]

Sorry about the huge delay since the last post.

October 26, 2013.

Layout begins.

Step one was to mark out where all the penetrations were to go on the roof.

Step two was to actually install flashings at all those locations.

To ensure the lines were strait the four corners of the support system were installed and stringlines run between them.

The pink rope sold at places like Home Depot turns out to be best, you can put huge amounts of tension on this and get a pretty strait line one large distances.
Once the lines were done, the intermittent rows were marked and drilled. Then I ran a line along the entire array and began marking out truss locations and finally installing the remainder of the flashings.

 

[Tincup]

Updates?

 

[sean Buick 76]

How much would a solar system like this cost in materials?

 

[Edgemonton]

October 27, 2013.

With all the flashings and ‘L-brackets’ installed, I could now begin installation of the rails. Available in different lengths you just need to be mindful to not have the splices fall in between modules or the module clamps will not work.

Note: The spacing and placement of the flashings is based off the recommendations from my structural engineer.
It was also recommended that all holes be pre drilled with a 1/4 pilot bit through the truss and filled with PL premium glue to repair the strength of the truss. The hole being drilled through also allows you to confirm visually that the glue has properly filled the hole.

The picture bellow shows how the Conergy rail system comes together.

I began by installing upper rails and joining the sections together. The ‘L-brackets’ allow both vertical and horizontal adjustment allowing you to get the rail in a nice straight line.

And same for the lower rail.

Now the remainder of rails are loose placed

Stringlined corner to line up all the rails straight at one end and square to each other and the roof.

Now using a high tension stringline I can make the four middle rows match the upper and lower getting all the rails in one plane. This can be an iterative process as the upper and lower rails may need to move up or down to make everything flat.

Rails all run

Now all the remains is to cut off the excess rail and tighten all the fittings down.

 

[Edgemonton]

How much would a solar system like this cost in materials?

This is a hard question to answer. Solar equipment prices change constantly and vary on availability and region as well as quality of product selection.

I am not at liberty to discuss the cost of my equipment as I got them at cost and through a large bulk purchase.

The Edmonton area has several suppliers of solar equipment who will sell them to the general public.

You just need to keep in mind the five costs for a system like this.

1) Modules: Usually quantified as a $/W. Module prices are highly variable depending on efficiency, local content and quality as well as quality.
2) Racking and support system: Highly variable in price depending on quality, material and country of origin.
3) Inverter: Same as modules. Added to this however is a huge price increase for micro inverters (such as Enphase, this system has a micro inverter mounted under each module) or string based inverter (about 30% cheaper)
4)Wiring: Dependent on distance from array to panelboard as well as size of system.
5)Installation cost.

 

[Edgemonton]

November 2nd 2013.

Sealing the two south facing windows.

Hard to tell from the picture but I am also trying pot lights in the soffit.

 

[Edgemonton]

November 2nd 2013.
Today was the day I picked up my modules. All 24 of them, so exciting!
First things first, the layout of the supports and modules relative to trusses and full roof layout. As you can tell I maximized my roof space to get as many modules as possible. This pushed up against all the city limits for distance to property line, roof height, etc, etc…

I ended up using Conergy 250W’s and I did not use Quickmount PV opting for Zilla flashings.
The specs for the Conergys as follows.

And now for unloading the modules!

Added a safety strap to make sure the lot didn’t come crashing down.

 

[Denwood]

Edge, your post is a very welcome thread of information. We were on the verge of microfit at the business (at 80c feed in!) just before the Ontario gov't pulled the pin on corporation owned properties. Your installation detail is awesome..please keep it coming.

Did you consider evacuated tube/hot water heat for your slab?

 

[Edgemonton]

Edge, your post is a very welcome thread of information. We were on the verge of microfit at the business (at 80c feed in!) just before the Ontario gov't pulled the pin on corporation owned properties. Your installation detail is awesome..please keep it coming.

Did you consider evacuated tube/hot water heat for your slab?

Sorry to hear that feel through. I would be happy with 08c feed in at this point.

I did not consider solar hot water as the entire set up is quite large. I do regret however not going the radiant floor heat w/ a small electric hot water tank.

 

[Edgemonton]

As for as the wiring goes for the array, I didn't take any pictures specifically of the set up.
The array is broken into two strings of 12 modules. Having all the wiring tye wrapped and in place makes the install go smoothly so planing exactly where you need the wire is crucial.

Enter quick sketch.

 

[Denwood]

Edge, I hear you on the floor issue. One of the things I'd like to see an example of in Canada (cold climate) is how a few evacuated tube units would work just to store heat in the slab. In other words, pour a thicker insulated slab than usual, do a photovoltaic pump (only works during the day) and keep it simple. Adding an on-demand heater to the loop for an air/fluid heater for when the shop is occupied. If I end up building a new shop, pretty sure we'd be doing as above.

Regardless, what you're doing on your garage is exactly what we're modeling for our building to bring us to a net zero power situation. Looking forward to your updates.

 

[Edgemonton]

November 2nd 2013 (continued)

Finally the long awaited module installation day. Leading up to this was much preparation. Bonding each section of rail together, running a common grounding wire across all six rails and back to the junction box (JB) on the north roof slope. Typically I prefer to install the JB near the array and on the same side however the lack of extra space on my roof slope made it necessary to be installed on the backside.

Installing the first module straight and square to the array is crucial. If it is askew the entire array will be off line. This is really just like tilling, only on a much larger surface area. And much larger tiles.

And the Rain/sleet begins

Pile starting to disappear

Installing the second last module of first row.

And the Snow begins

And more snow.

Last module top row

 

[wasfast]

Something ironic about installing solar panels during a snow storm

 

[Edgemonton]

Day two of install
At the end of yesterday I had covered the lower rails with tarps to keep the snow off. All I had to do today was go up and shake the snow off the tarps.
This is certainly VERY far from ideal installing circumstances but I was determined to get the array installed before winter set in.
First module of second row

Some safe working practices…

Second row done

The pile shrinking

Wiring a module, the interconnection pain that is between upper and lower row of modules.

One row left

Home stretch,

Two more up

Two modules to go

Last one

Done

 

[Aussie Mike]

Very nice work.

A lot of us down here in Australia run solar. We have no shortage of sunshine

I have a 3KW system on my workshop roof with 12x 250W panels. Most fine days it's showing about 2.6KW - 2.8KW on the inverter

Cheers

Mike

 

[Gentle_Ben]

How difficult would it be to retrofit a solar power system like this to an existing garage?

I have a heated slab using an electric hot water tank and I would like to try and lower my energy costs somehow.

 

[Denwood]

Ben, I suspect you'd get a better buzz for your buck doing a few evacuated tube arrays and storage tank to pre-heat water to your heater, particularly if you "overdrive" your slab during the day to store heat. It's hard to find examples of folks doing this, but the topic bears some investigation.

If you already have radiant heat in an insulated slab, then you have potential to store heat in your slab for release during night when the PV system is doing nothing.

 

[Denwood]

Edge, do you have any power summary/graph type data that you can post up on the system performance?

 

[pixelmonkey]

great info with photos here for the solar panels.

if you want more info about the Solar Vacuum Tubes, look on the groutaone YouTube channel for info. He's working on his garage now.

hope it helps
chris<pixelmonkey>

 

[Edgemonton]

How difficult would it be to retrofit a solar power system like this to an existing garage?

I have a heated slab using an electric hot water tank and I would like to try and lower my energy costs somehow.

Ben, I suspect you'd get a better buzz for your buck doing a few evacuated tube arrays and storage tank to pre-heat water to your heater, particularly if you "overdrive" your slab during the day to store heat. It's hard to find examples of folks doing this, but the topic bears some investigation.

If you already have radiant heat in an insulated slab, then you have potential to store heat in your slab for release during night when the PV system is doing nothing.

Ben, It all depends on a few things, if you have closed in the roof it makes it a little more difficult. However one way or another it is really not that hard to install.

As for Denwoods idea, I really like that one but I would say it really depends on if you need the garage heated all day. If not you are better of running grid tied and gaining the $$$ from feed in. Or... You could do both

 

[CNGsaves]

So OP you've had the solar array on garage roof running for over a year . . right??

What has been your electrical savings, and what is your expected payback in number of years ???

Would you have gotten some additional payback with radiant heating system that put heat into thermal mass (slab in garage and similar in house) so sunny days could provide heat that would last through the night??

What has been PoCo payback per Kw when you spin the meter backwards?? What is rate differential from what YOU pay, compared to what THEY pay you??

Here in states it's a ******* match by state, and some state regulations allow PoCo's to pay NOTHING for backfed power !!!!

 

[txusa03]

Edge, just like alot of folks on here, your attention to detail and dedication is incredible. The fact that you take the time to documented and shared your work and answer question is equally awesome.

I might have missed it but if you don't mind, what is your profession?

 

[arz71]

Would it be better to put solar panels on a 'metal roof' since the shingles have to be replaced?

What did this cost in USA dollars to do this and do these wear out?

 

[ryanp77]

Great build, can't wait to see the finished project

 

[Edgemonton]

March 14, 2014 (give or take a little while)

Siding installation continued all winter long and I completed the east wall.

Finishing the plywood in some of the small sections I had left for more pressing projects.

Problem with the truss, this one had been the top of the stack and from sitting however long in their yard had absorbed a lot of moisture. The east side was not as bad and able to be repaired with studs behind. I ended up pulling the bowed pieces on this side off and putting new sheets of 3/8 plywood.

Garage door opener

Solar snow covered and the siding on the south face almost done.

Soffit and lighting installation. I decided to wire up the four pot lights to the junction box in the middle. A motion sensor will be installed there.

The same installation is also on the north side.

Looks a little messy but a screen shot from sketchup on determining mast height to achieve the required 18' clearance over the back alley.