To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Solar panels for you house/ shop

Capt Crash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
175
Location
Western Colorado
Who here has switched to using solar for your house/ shop and what to look out for. We just finished building a new shop at our house and with that out usage has already gone up and it will continue to rise. On top of that our price for that electricity has increased as well, and because it comes from a public company that has to switch from coal/ natural gas to renewable in the next 5 years, the price will continue to increase. We met with a person from a localish company and the 2 people that I met live within 20 minutes of me. They do not offer leasing options, only financing. They do all of the selling, installing, repairs etc inhouse. The panels are from Hyundai and have a 25 year warranty and at the 25 year should still produce 85%. Please give me any insight.
Thanks Brian
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,068
Location
NJ
First start with collecting all information regarding fed/state incentives, system sizing limits, tariffs, annual account settlement w/POCO, etc.

What does this company offer other than design, install, finance, and maintenance?

What is their sell price as in cost/watt? What is your net purchase price (cost/watt) after all incentives are realized? Understand who gets the incentives/rebates. What are you signing over to them?

What is your obligation to this installer for exclusive maintenance service, long -term contracts?

Ask who is responsible for roof leaks at any related penetration and consequential interior damage.

Edit: added items in red.
 
Last edited:

ericm

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Messages
1,963
Location
Southern Oregon
You're already a step ahead of most people since you're seeking out local installers. I'd never buy from someone who called me or came to my door, or lease a system. I'm fortunate that I can afford to buy the system we're installing for our new house outright. I expect it will not be enough for the house + shop + irrigation pump. If so, then I will add panels to the shop.

The state I'm moving to has 1:1 net metering. That means that every unit of power I put into the grid gets me a credit for the same amount that a unit of power cost me. Once a year there is a true-up. In this state any surplus gets used to provide power to low income people, which I have no problem with. In some states you get a check from the PoCo. Net metering lets you use the power company as a battery. You stuff power into the grid when the panels are cranking during the day in the summer and take back "your" power at night and in the winter.

States are doing away with 1:1 net metering. California is leading the way with a system where you get paid a pittance for power you put back. Even though power is very expensive there it no longer pays to install solar without also installing batteries.

So the first thing to find out is what your state does for metering, net or otherwise, and if there are any changes on the horizon. That can greatly affect how long it takes for the system to pay for itself.
 
OP
C

Capt Crash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
175
Location
Western Colorado
So I fully believe that the panels will probably need replaced about the time that they are paid for so there wont be any free period. The savings would really come from hedging against the unkown but certain future increases in the future. Colorado is in the process of switching to net metering at the 1:1 ratio but like everything that California does Colorado will be right behind so I would expect that ratio to change. The saleperson said that if the net ratio changes that they would have to grand father me at the 1:1 rate.
This system is being planned on providing 125% of our yearly power would would allow for the extra power needed for the brand new shop. There would be no batteries so the extra produced in the summer would be fed back into the grid which would give us a usage credit for the winter when we use alot more power.
I am going to meet with them again next week so I am making a list of questions for them.
 

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,094
Location
Modesto, CA
First start with collecting all information regarding fed/state incentives, system sizing limits, tariffs, annual account settlement w/POCO, etc.

What does this company offer other than design, install, finance, and maintenance?

What is their sell price as in cost/watt? What is your net purchase price (cost/watt) after all incentives are realized?

What is your obligation to this installer for exclusive maintenance service, long -term contracts?
bingo

tons of info to collect and process before you ever sign a contract
 

earl84

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
215
Location
Colona, CO
I live on the Western Slope near Montrose, and did a mostly DIY install, (grid-tied, no batteries like you're planning) hiring an electrician to do the hookups to the main electrical panel. Otherwise, I did everything. Paperwork with the POCO, permit application, etc. I paid $200 for a company to design the system, which they gave back to me since I bought all my stuff through them. Used their plans to apply for permit and have the county and POCO review and approve. Had to get a cursory review of the system from the county, needed a permit, and had to pass electrical inspection before turning on. The POCO would only allow a small overage, probably wouldn't have approved a 125% overbuild.
If you live near me, I'd be happy to show you the system, and discuss the process, at least what I can remember.
 

manwithtools

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
14,191
Location
Lebanon, TN
All of the above is good advice. If you have the space, strongly consider ground mount vss. roof. Obvious this avoids roof issues, but more importantly allows for easy cleaning of panels. This is important to do regularly to optimize power output.
 
OP
C

Capt Crash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
175
Location
Western Colorado
I live on the Western Slope near Montrose, and did a mostly DIY install, (grid-tied, no batteries like you're planning) hiring an electrician to do the hookups to the main electrical panel. Otherwise, I did everything. Paperwork with the POCO, permit application, etc. I paid $200 for a company to design the system, which they gave back to me since I bought all my stuff through them. Used their plans to apply for permit and have the county and POCO review and approve. Had to get a cursory review of the system from the county, needed a permit, and had to pass electrical inspection before turning on. The POCO would only allow a small overage, probably wouldn't have approved a 125% overbuild.
If you live near me, I'd be happy to show you the system, and discuss the process, at least what I can remember.
I will send you a PM. Thank you
 

Just_Steve

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
920
Location
Dutchess County, NY
I recommend micro inverters instead of string inverters.
1) keeps all high voltage DC power on roof and only AC power in house.
2) Panels will produce power even when partly covered by snow unlike string inverters.

I have Enphase IQ8 micro inverters they allow me to generate power on a grid tied system during a power outage.
 

bluedog225

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,331
Location
Texas
Danger zone

1. If you noodle around on the diysolarpower forum, you will see how much a diy system will cost. From memory, I think the installers are making something like a 40% profit. And they are absolutely prone to going out of business well before your warranty period is up.

2. Off grid, will probably never pay back. But has other benefits lIke backup power. Also, depends on whether you are going full off grid or backup.

3. Buying power from utility companies is almost always going to be cheaper. It really depends on the buyback program in your area. Keep in mind the buyback can change. This can screw up your plans. Many places are saturated with solar during the sunny hours from noon to five. And so the buyback is cheap because power is cheap. And you still buy the more expensive electricity in the evening and overnight.

4. You can DIY a standalone system with solar panels, charge controllers, batteries, and an inverter. Or you can have a grid tide system that does not require batteries at all. This type system will be subject to some kind of buyback agreement. Or you can have a grid tie system with battery back up. This type system is capable of providing power to you during a power outage. It is also capable of allowing you to run off your batteries during an expensive time of use periods, and run off the utility during cheaper times of use. That depends on your utility tariff.

All this is to say that there’s a a lot to think about and analyze. My opinion after noodling around in this area for several years is that going with a solar installation company is almost always a mistake. But that’s just me.

At my cabin, I can run the whole place with about 20,000 W of LiFePO4 batteries and a 5000 W inverter. But I’ve got to be careful with my electricity usage as though I were in a big RV. I plan a double this one day. So I can live out here more normally. To include air con.

If you want to look at diy systems, check out currentconnected.com.
 

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
20,094
Location
Modesto, CA
I recommend micro inverters instead of string inverters.
1) keeps all high voltage DC power on roof and only AC power in house.
2) Panels will produce power even when partly covered by snow unlike string inverters.

I have Enphase IQ8 micro inverters they allow me to generate power on a grid tied system during a power outage.
so they disconnect from the grid when there is an outage? is there an ATS between the utility, house and solar system? how is the solar system/house physically isolated from the grid?
 

bluedog225

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,331
Location
Texas
I recommend micro inverters instead of string inverters.
1) keeps all high voltage DC power on roof and only AC power in house.
2) Panels will produce power even when partly covered by snow unlike string inverters.

I have Enphase IQ8 micro inverters they allow me to generate power on a grid tied system during a power outage.
The enphase stuff is the shizzle. All good as far as I can tell. Not really diy-able unless you are willing to get certified as an installer. And they are very pricey. But seems to be the best of the best in terms of safety and utility.

Some reliability problems with micros. Maybe better now.

also, if you gotta fix a micro, and it’s on the roof, you gotta go up on the roof.
 
Last edited:

ToolsRCool

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2024
Messages
231
Location
Plymouth, MI
One of my favorite topics. I did mine myself. 21 Mitsubishi panels, 280W each, 5.88kW total, Enphase micro-inverters. Works absolutely perfect, have not touched it since installing it. Way cool to see your digital smart meter read negative anytime the sun is out, even if your home A/C is on, etc...... I'm in MI, and it covers 10 of the 12 months a year of my electric bill. Still have to pay $9 monthly for line connection fee. I stayed grid tied because it is there and I hate batteries. You'll need a South facing roof or location to take max advantage since we are North of the equator. West works as well, just not as strong.

Yes, look for solar tax credits, there should be some on the federal level that have been declining each year but were still 30% or so, and there may be some in your state as well, not all states are solar friendly. If you are staying grid tied, ask your utility company their policy of such, most will limit the capacity you install because they don't want to owe you money each month or year. Some states have Net Metering, some don't. That can make a big difference as well.

You can do this yourself. It is way easier than people think. Honestly, it is only 3 parts and 2 wires. Panels, racks, and inverters, then 2 hot leads to a 240v breaker anywhere in your panel, you can even reverse those wires. That's it. All the panels and inverters have connectors you just plug in. Because I am grid tied, the utility required it to be fully legit, city electrical and building inspections, all that. Passed both without a word said. You don't have to re-roof, I was able to easily cut in the stantion bases at the shingles using a coffee can as the tracing template then just regular plumbing vent pipe flashing covers. I did pull my facia board to find the rafter boards, then put it back up. Panels shade the existing shingles so I expect to extend their life.

Solar has a bad rap because these install companies want to retire off of just 2-3 jobs. It is almost all profit for them. Mine cost $4k total out of pocket, and took me 2 days to install. The studying up front is where most of my work was, but happy to spread that knowledge now. 2.5 year ROI. Even if you are not up to doing the work, you can still buy the components yourself, and then just hire each part out for a per hour labor charge. Roofer to install the racks and panels, and then electrician to wire it up. Will keep the cost WAY down vs a door knocker. The ROI is too far out if you just pay a solar company.

For sure get name brand panels. I wanted Japanese quality. Neighbor did some off-brand, they looked great new, but turned purple with streaks a year later. Still work, but look absolutely horrible. Mine look the same as the day they went up, 7 years later.

It is like a 5000 watt generator running anytime the sun is out, but silent and maintenance free. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have or provide photos, etc.... Works so well, should be mandatory. I'm providing 5/6 of my annual power needs on 1/4 of my total roof surface. DIY is the way to go on this.
 
Last edited:

walrus

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
11,685
Location
Maine
I recommend micro inverters instead of string inverters.
1) keeps all high voltage DC power on roof and only AC power in house.
2) Panels will produce power even when partly covered by snow unlike string inverters.

I have Enphase IQ8 micro inverters they allow me to generate power on a grid tied system during a power outage.
My SMA inverter will send power to grid when my panels have snow on them. Enphase is nice stuff, is your system a hybrid of some kind with batteries?
Good sun day today.
 

Attachments

  • 20250228_144707.jpg
    20250228_144707.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 24

mm08822

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
6,068
Location
NJ
so they disconnect from the grid when there is an outage? is there an ATS between the utility, house and solar system? how is the solar system/house physically isolated from the grid?
Yes, they still need the grid to phase to.

Then there is a rapid shutdown requirement and most likely POCO wants a physical disconnect near the meter anyway.
 

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,927
Location
Austin, TX
Who here has switched to using solar for your house/ shop and what to look out for.
The biggest issue is "what does my power company do with excess power". That is really the primary determination of if these systems are economically feasible to begin with. These systems produce power at peak times and usually that means you won't consume all the power at peak, so the economics are decided by how the excess is deal with at the POC.

You also need a south facing roof with appropriate tilt. The south facing is more important than the tilt.

They do not offer leasing options, only financing. They do all of the selling, installing, repairs etc inhouse. The panels are from Hyundai and have a 25 year warranty and at the 25 year should still produce 85%. Please give me any insight.
Thanks Brian
You really don't want a lease IMHO. It complicates selling the home.
Panels are panels... I used to only install American made panels, but pretty much all the manufacturers stopped building them or went under, so warranty is worthless. I would not assume that the warranty has any value what-so-ever. Panels will last 20+ years, it's very unusual for them to completely fault... The just "degrade" slowly and the warranty factors that it. Replacing them (warranty), you'd still be on the hook for the labor. I've never had a panel fail and I've probably installed 80+. So reliability wise, I wouldn't worry about panels.

Profit margins on these systems are high. I won't do one for under $10k margin and I'm cheap... I probably won't do another system at that margin. Some places you can get away with DIY, some places that's going to be impossible. Local installers will be best, they have software that will give you ROI on the system, I'd start by comparing the estimates and ROI from two independent contractors.
 

dave*99

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
4,290
Location
Coastal NJ
You really don't want a lease IMHO. It complicates selling the home.
I've heard this many times. The retort is often "It's not a problem, the buyer just has to assume the contract."
But there is a catch - that contract is tied to a loan. There are some situations where the buyer is operating at the edge of his credit limit for the mortgage to buy your house. The contract on solar pushes the buyer over his debt to income ratio limit. It can vary from one solar company to another. Some claim the loan payments replace a utility payment etc. It's a question worth asking if one considers that route.
YMMV
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

ericm

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Messages
1,963
Location
Southern Oregon
So I fully believe that the panels will probably need replaced about the time that they are paid for so there wont be any free period.
That depends on when your pay back period ends. Most panels have a 25 or 30 year warranty lifespan. Often the payback time is on the order of 8-10 years. I have seen some that are in the 3-5 year range which is fantastic.

But without calculating the actual value for your situation it's just vibes.

The savings would really come from hedging against the unkown but certain future increases in the future. Colorado is in the process of switching to net metering at the 1:1 ratio but like everything that California does Colorado will be right behind so I would expect that ratio to change. The saleperson said that if the net ratio changes that they would have to grand father me at the 1:1 rate.
California is already talking about un grandfathering people early. It's all driven by the utilities. It's not the state government driving it.

Utilities in other states see what California utilities can get away with then they do it too. That's why we're putting in batteries. Our Oregon utility copied PG&E's special "fire safety" breakers that drop power to thousands of customers when a squirrel gets zapped somewhere. It's cheaper to do that than to maintain the system properly. We had a ton of outages last year.
 

dcg9381

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
11,927
Location
Austin, TX
Often the payback time is on the order of 8-10 years. I have seen some that are in the 3-5 year range which is fantastic.
Here, DIY with 1:1 net metering my payback was in the 8 year range. That got trashed when the POC changed their net metering program, all it took was a change to the board. They looked at CA and said "solar doesn't work" - they didn't consider that we have less than 2% of members with arrays and our arrays produce during peak power hours... It was a ludicrous decision IMHO.

How you'd get a commercially installed system to pay back in 3-5 years, I dunno.. Power costs must be absolutely nuts. But I'd do paybacks in 8-10 years all day long if I could get that. 100%
California is already talking about un grandfathering people early. It's all driven by the utilities. It's not the state government driving it.
CA has it's own special problems with solar due to mandates. The OP is in Colorado though.
 

bluedog225

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,331
Location
Texas
It’s pretty straightforward. When I worked at the public utility commission, new, junior staff, had ability to round off to the nearest $10 million. No one cared. Not even a penny a month per customer. The extraordinary river of money that flows to electric companies is difficult to comprehend. That cash flow will be preserved. Because it funds electrical generation, transmission, and distribution. And also significant industry behind that system. And it funds political campaings.

If conservation lowers your electrical bill (remember the 70s and 80s?), they will raise the customer charge to make up for the reduced revenue from conservation. If solar generation reduces electrical consumption, they will rewrite their service tariffs to preserve their income stream. It has been discussed that this customer start dropping off the grid and becoming purely self-sufficient, they will charge customers a “stranded cost“ fee to recover the utility investment in generation, transmission, and distribution.

The utilities are run by very smart engineers, business people, and lawyers. As are the public utility commissions. And the commissioners are often appointed by the governors. To make sure things stay the way they’re supposed to be. Everything else is window dressing.
 

dave*99

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
4,290
Location
Coastal NJ
It’s pretty straightforward. When I worked at the public utility commission, new, junior staff, had ability to round off to the nearest $10 million. No one cared. Not even a penny a month per customer. The extraordinary river of money that flows to electric companies is difficult to comprehend. That cash flow will be preserved. Because it funds electrical generation, transmission, and distribution. And also significant industry behind that system. And it funds political campaings.

If conservation lowers your electrical bill (remember the 70s and 80s?), they will raise the customer charge to make up for the reduced revenue from conservation. If solar generation reduces electrical consumption, they will rewrite their service tariffs to preserve their income stream. It has been discussed that this customer start dropping off the grid and becoming purely self-sufficient, they will charge customers a “stranded cost“ fee to recover the utility investment in generation, transmission, and distribution.

The utilities are run by very smart engineers, business people, and lawyers. As are the public utility commissions. And the commissioners are often appointed by the governors. To make sure things stay the way they’re supposed to be. Everything else is window dressing.
Similar to the road tax issues. EVs lower gas consumption and the gas tax revenue associated with it. So now higher registration fees are put on EVs in some states. Push in on the balloon here, it swells there.
 

davejo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
277
Location
(VA)
yes there was the assumption of being grandfathered... Colorado seems volatile these days

Capn crash, do you have any aesthetic concerns? If one of the panels fails during your warranty, the likelyhood of getting the exact same panel years later is dubious. There is no standard panel size, color, appearance, availability etc. General ballpark yes but exact match, highly questionable. Can you live with a mismatched panel on the roof of your house?
 

Just_Steve

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
920
Location
Dutchess County, NY
Similar to the road tax issues. EVs lower gas consumption and the gas tax revenue associated with it. So now higher registration fees are put on EVs in some states. Push in on the balloon here, it swells there.
But some of us pay an extra charge for just that reason.

02/13/2025

Customer Benefit Contribution $29.01

((16.40kW*1.72*1.00m)+2.84%)

A Customer Benefit Contribution (CBC) is a monthly charge that some New York State residents pay to help fund public benefit programs. The charge applies to solar, wind, and micro-hydroelectric systems installed on or after January 1, 2022. [1, 2]
Purpose Support energy efficiency programs, Fund solar initiatives, and Provide low-income discounts. [1]
How it's calculated [1, 3, 4]
  • The CBC is based on the DC system size of the project
  • The charge is updated annually in January
**Who pays it? [4]
  • Residential and small commercial customers who install solar PV at their site [4]
  • Customers with on-site solar, wind, or micro-hydroelectric resources [1]
**Who doesn't pay it? [1, 4]
  • Customers who interconnected solar PV systems before January 1, 2022
  • Commercial accounts with a demand charge on their electric bill
  • Battery storage
  • Projects compensated under Community Distributed Generation (“CDG”) or Remote Crediting programs
Why it's charged [2]
The CBC was proposed to address concerns that net metered solar customers aren't paying their fair share of costs for public benefit programs.
 

ToolsRCool

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2024
Messages
231
Location
Plymouth, MI
yes there was the assumption of being grandfathered... Colorado seems volatile these days

Capn crash, do you have any aesthetic concerns? If one of the panels fails during your warranty, the likelyhood of getting the exact same panel years later is dubious. There is no standard panel size, color, appearance, availability etc. General ballpark yes but exact match, highly questionable. Can you live with a mismatched panel on the roof of your house?
I know you're not asking me, but in my case, I purchased a few additional panels in case one was hit by a ball and cracked, etc..... I feel stupid having them stored in boxes indoors in the basement, where instead, they could be harvesting daily.

Public service commission in MI is in bed with the utilities big time. Solar is a real threat to utility companies, because it works. I'm not a big believer in the ending of Net Metering and solar consumers needing to pay their fair share of line costs. When I over-generate, the excess just flows to my next door neighbor. It does not even go through the pole transformer before being entirely consumed. So, OK, here, I'll pay a single one-time cost of both my and my neighbors service entrance cables.
 

dave*99

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
4,290
Location
Coastal NJ
It’s important to understand base load. That’s the load when all the renewables are asleep and you house still needs to run. The grid is not a battery. When renewables are benching the grid that’s great. But when they are not we still need supply.

Big generation can’t ramp up and down easily with passing clouds and breezes.
 
OP
C

Capt Crash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
175
Location
Western Colorado
Thanks for everyones response. Here are answers to some of the comments.
I am in Western Colorado and have 300 days of sun. We get very little hail.
We only have one power company to choose from.
I use very little electricty in the summer, and alot in December-March.
My bill in the summer could be under $100 and in January could be $350
What is changing is I just built a new shop that looks to double my usage.
Also the power company has rate increases every year around 7%
I expect this to increase in the coming years due to switching to renewable energy.
I met with the solar company yesterday to get some info. I wont buy until I do more research.
The only rebate is a 30% tax credit through the federal government.
I would probably mount it on the ground instead of on my roof.
My state does NET metering at 1:1 for a usage credit or if they paid me it would be 3:1
I would be fine if I could overproduce for 8-9 months and then use the credit that was built up to offset my usage the other 3-4 months. I would have to pay the power company $7 per month to be connected but I would have a stable and consistant monthly bill.
Brian
 

paranoid56

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
1,596
Location
San Diego, Ca
as somebody with a solar lease, i would say its eh. if you plan on staying at your home for that full time its not the worst deal. i got all new panel upgrade, bla bla, and much lower electricity bill. If i wasnt planning on staying here then a lease is stupid.

saying that. if you have any skillset, DIY would save you so much money. Hell, i was given a 18kw full setup for free from FB on somebody that was upgrading. you can do solar DIY for super cheap if you wanted to.
 

WisJim

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
2,310
Location
Menomonie, WI
I installed my first panels in 1982 and they still work well, producing over 80% of what the specs say. I've installed 4 of my own systems over the years, and paid a company to do a new system at our house in town, because I don't want to work 30 feet off the ground on a slippery metal roof at my age and physical shape. The other systems were all ground mounts except the first one, which was 4 panels on a rack on the south side of the house. We installed a standing seam metal roof on our house a couple of years ago in preparation for the new solar panel installation. I've used Enphase microinverters since the early 2000s with NO problems at all.
If you don't do it yourself, get at least 3 or more quotes for the system.
If you are thinking of doing it yourself, check out the RENVU website. I've had numerous friends who aren't electrically or mechanically inclined buy all their components from Renvu, did the installation, and hired an electrician to do the final connections. One friend figured out his system cost and says the savings from a contractor installed system was like paying himself $400 an hour, even with hiring an electrician and paying a friend to help with some of it.
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,342
Location
SE MI
so they disconnect from the grid when there is an outage? is there an ATS between the utility, house and solar system? how is the solar system/house physically isolated from the grid?
Quality micro-inverters DO disconnect when there i an outage. No ATS required.

For SMALL micro-inverter installation, the output of the inverter PLUGS INTO A STANDARD 5-15 receptacle. Simply unplugging it is your disconnect.

Now, those statement do NOT mean a system like that would be APPROVED by the local authorities and your POCO !
 

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,571
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Solar panels rarely stop working unless physically damaged. There are a microscopic percentage of solar panels that have failed prematurely due to manufacturing issues. There are solar panels from the 1970s still working.

The primary reason to replace panels is because newer panels can produce more watts in the same mount of space. I am looking at replacing my panels after seven years with panels that produce 25% more electricity. The cost will be something like $2,000 before tax credits. Panels are pretty cheap if you know where to look.
 

reader2580

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
14,571
Location
Minneapolis, MN
For SMALL micro-inverter installation, the output of the inverter PLUGS INTO A STANDARD 5-15 receptacle. Simply unplugging it is your disconnect.

Now, those statement do NOT mean a system like that would be APPROVED by the local authorities and your POCO !
I highly doubt the OP is looking at a system that uses crappy Chinese microinverters that plug into a 120 volt receptacle. The people doing systems like this usually want to avoid permits and getting permission for their power company.
 

Just_Steve

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
920
Location
Dutchess County, NY
so they disconnect from the grid when there is an outage? is there an ATS between the utility, house and solar system? how is the solar system/house physically isolated from the grid?
I forgot how it's controlled but solar power is sent to a sub panel that has 6 circuits in it. Not a physical transfer switch but the control box is electronically controlled.

 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,342
Location
SE MI
I highly doubt the OP is looking at a system that uses crappy Chinese microinverters that plug into a 120 volt receptacle.
From Wikipedia

Enphase Energy, Inc. is an American energy technology company headquartered in Fremont, California, that develops and manufactures solar micro-inverters, battery energy storage, and EV charging stations primarily for residential customers. Enphase was established in 2006 and is the first company to successfully commercialize the solar micro-inverter, which converts the direct current (DC) power generated by a solar panel into grid-compatible alternating current (AC) for use or export. The company has shipped more than 48 million microinverters to 2.5 million solar systems in more than 140 countries.​
 

theoldwizard1

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
43,342
Location
SE MI
I forgot how it's controlled but solar power is sent to a sub panel that has 6 circuits in it. Not a physical transfer switch but the control box is electronically controlled.

Not required !

GOOD quality micro-inverter can be DIRECTLY attached to your main panel after the first disconnect. You can have 2 micro-inverters as long as each is attached to a different leg.
 

Innovate1

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
4,300
Location
Illinois near St. Louis, Missouri
No net metering here so a grid tied system is not practical. But I would like to put together a small battery system to run some essential loads if the power is out and reduce my bill a bit other times. Should reduce the amount of paperwork and cost significantly since I shouldn't need a new meter (required for full grid tied system) and such. Haven't come up with a full plan but thinking if I could run some loads from the solar and have a charger to charge the batteries when solar can't keep up then the utility connection is one way. Not sure what sort of permits I would need to do it all "by the book". I would think it would just be local AHJ and not involve the utility at all.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom