Solar panels that don't require internet?

[ericm]

We're considering solar for our house that's being built in Oregon. But I read here https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/the-gigantic-unregulated-power-plants-in-the-cloud/ that most panel+inverter systems connect to the manufacturer's servers to upload data and download firmware. Are there any that don't do that? I want the ability manage and look at data myself, from my local network, but not for the solar company to data mine my data or get hacked and get my data stolen or get the system shut off. Or for the company to go bankrupt and the entire install to become useless.

 

[ArcReactorKC]

SMA and Solaredge both can be used without giving them internet access.

I have installed both brands and use my own DAS (data acquisition system) through modbus to give customer data.
There's no reason you couldn't use either brands data manager on your home network to see the throughput.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

We're considering solar for our house that's being built in Oregon. But I read here https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/the-gigantic-unregulated-power-plants-in-the-cloud/ that most panel+inverter systems connect to the manufacturer's servers to upload data and download firmware. Are there any that don't do that? I want the ability manage and look at data myself, from my local network, but not for the solar company to data mine my data or get hacked and get my data stolen or get the system shut off. Or for the company to go bankrupt and the entire install to become useless.

easy. just program an IP, subnet mask, and gateway (if required) into the inverter but dont give it an IP address for a DNS server. this way it wont be able to resolve domain names. unless of course its connecting to an IP at the mothership instead of a host name. in that case, setup your firewall to block all WAN traffic to that inverter. If you dont have an advance firewall that can do so, only other thing i can think of is setup VLANs but again would require non-consumer grade network gear.

 

[ericm]

easy. just program an IP, subnet mask, and gateway (if required) into the inverter but dont give it an IP address for a DNS server. this way it wont be able to resolve domain names. unless of course its connecting to an IP at the mothership instead of a host name. in that case, setup your firewall to block all WAN traffic to that inverter. If you dont have an advance firewall that can do so, only other thing i can think of is setup VLANs but again would require non-consumer grade network gear.

Yea I know I could block them from connecting to their servers. I used to do networking for work and have done my own since. What I don't know is if the panels/inverters require connectivity to the manufacturer's servers in order to run. It sounds like not all do, which is great. It's going to be a requirement for all our stuff in the new house, except for the gate controller.

 

[theoldwizard1]

But I read here https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/the-gigantic-unregulated-power-plants-in-the-cloud/ that most panel+inverter systems connect to the manufacturer's servers to upload data and download firmware.

Let's start with "What is your goal ?" Likely to reduce your electric bill. Personally, I have never heard this. And why are you reading a European web site for information ?

An uneducated consumer in this market has a huge, blinking red sign that says SUCKER ! Sales people will take every dime you have and leave you with a bad taste. It is going to take a large amount of time to get a reasonable education.

A good place to start is the YouTube channel DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse He also runs a forum called DIY Solar Power Forum

Even is you do not plan to DIY, it is important that you understand the terminology and how these systems work.

 

[reader2580]

I haven’t heard of any solar inverter that requires Internet connectivity to operate. My Solaredge inverters work just fine without Internet.

 

[jmdirk]

Again, I don't think many, if any, require internet access. Usually the internet is used to get data into their app/dashboard for visualization purposes. Or, as your article said, firmware updates. Some, like Solaredge, are setup via your dealer and they can have remote access for troubleshooting and monitoring purposes. But you can always opt out of that as well.

I've only got hands on experience with SolarEdge. As someone else mentioned, that can be setup for local data collection and monitoring. You need to use a standalone monitoring system like Home Assistant, which maybe isn't as fully featured as the manufacturer app, but it does give you an overview of production etc.

 

[dogdog]

Yea I know I could block them from connecting to their servers. I used to do networking for work and have done my own since. What I don't know is if the panels/inverters require connectivity to the manufacturer's servers in order to run. It sounds like not all do, which is great. It's going to be a requirement for all our stuff in the new house, except for the gate controller.

You can always ask the installers what inverters they use and does it operate without internet. Most will answer that. Probably if it does required network, they will not know what kind of data it collects.

I think you are better off reading up on what type of scams can happen on these solar deals than anything.

 

[dcg9381]

You might ask over on diysolar, there are more than a few inverters that have "local monitoring" options - but often with a 3rd party tool of some type. Building a UI into an inverter for local use, providing the cpu/memory for it - it's not that common. Having an API/logging is more common.. There is no standard API, but lots of ways to parse that data out (if available) and display it locally if you're into that sort of thing..

Reddit reference.

I want the ability manage and look at data myself, from my local network, but not for the solar company to data mine my data or get hacked and get my data stolen or get the system shut off. Or for the company to go bankrupt and the entire install to become useless.

IMHO, there may be a very few inverters that do remote updates, so I'm not sure that a "push disable" is very likely.
The "OEM" monitoring is usually pretty basic, want "more" - they simply want you to pay for longer storage and more advanced monitoring, it's a revenue stream.

I've never deal with a system that could "become useless" if it couldn't "call home" - but I imagine that might be a thing if you're a solar leasing company.

 

[bluedog225]

1000% the @theoldwizard1 rec. The diy solar power forum is awesome.

Don’t buy anything without running by them first. You will save a small fortune avoiding mistakes and carpy vendors.

Also, panels are dumb. They don’t talk to anything.

My Victron gear isn’t connected to anything. Though I can update the very useful phone app to monitor stuff via bluetooth. Highly recommend Victron though expensive.

Some discussion of SolArk being hosted in China. No bueno.

 

[sjvicker]

I second the advice to follow Will Prowse on youtube or his forum to get a better understanding of the systems. Once you get into the home sized systems they are generally all web connected but it isn't mandatory to connect them unless you want to do updates or monitor the system remotely.

You have 2 options: Off Grid or Grid-Tied. Based on your comments I suspect you want a grid tied system. If I was you I'd avoid any solar company that knocks on doors and instead go with an EG4 18kw all-in-one inverter. This inverter mounts between your meter and your main panel and has inputs for panels, a generator and outputs to your batteries (if you decide to use them). The EG4 products have a good support network and following so its pretty easy to troubleshoot issues if they come up. If you're off grid, look into the EG4 6000XP's. I'm currently running one of these and I've never connected it to a network and its running just fine.

In my opinion, for future proofing you should do ground mount for your panels if its at all possible and if you must do a roof mount then try to do it on a standing seam roof. I'd also stay away from micro inverters that are on your roof as its just one less thing to go wrong in an inaccessible area.

 

[dcg9381]

EG4 18kw all-in-one inverter. This inverter mounts between your meter and your main panel and has inputs for panels, a generator and outputs to your batteries (if you decide to use them). The EG4 products have a good support network and following so its pretty easy to troubleshoot issues if they come up. If you're off grid, look into the EG4 6000XP's. I'm currently running one of these and I've never connected it to a network and its running just fine.

I own a number of EG-4 inverters. They are fresh off the boat and you'll often be in the position of a "beta" tester with some of their products. The company that slings these is doing so much business that "support" is not a word that you'll hear in a positive light.

That being said their stuff does work... And it's probably the lowest cost option if you can DIY.

 

[sjvicker]

I own a number of EG-4 inverters. They are fresh off the boat and you'll often be in the position of a "beta" tester with some of their products. The company that slings these is doing so much business that "support" is not a word that you'll hear in a positive light.

That being said their stuff does work... And it's probably the lowest cost option if you can DIY.

I'm currently setting up my full system and planning to run 4 6000xp's. From everything I've found they're much better than the old 6500 inverters.

Let me clarify, when I mention support network I'm thinking of the signature solar facebook group and forums like DIY solar. Places where you can get info from user experts that doesn't come from the supplier/mfg. But to be fair, signature solar is pretty active in the facebook group and they've been responsive whenever I've called them.

The technology seems to be advancing fast with these combo units and its pretty crazy how much prices have dropped and how much simpler they make setup vs a Victron system with modules and wires everywhere. That said, I stick to a simple rule, if it moves (RV) I'm using Victron and if its stationary I use EG4.

 

[dcg9381]

I'm currently setting up my full system and planning to run 4 6000xp's. From everything I've found they're much better than the old 6500 inverters.

They may be, I have the 6500-48s.

Let me clarify, when I mention support network I'm thinking of the signature solar facebook group and forums like DIY solar. Places where you can get info from user experts that doesn't come from the supplier/mfg. But to be fair, signature solar is pretty active in the facebook group and they've been responsive whenever I've called them.

Yes, that forum (haven't used FB) is GREAT. That's how I've figured about 90% of the stuff out. But when I bought SS was still figuring out grounding, some resolutions required opening the inverters up. Support gave me "dead wrong" answers more than once. I met someone that does off grid for a living, spending big money with SS and he had nothing nice to say about their support, even at his spend level.

That being said, the 6500EX inverter costs about 25% as much as what I spent on a Frontius inverter. Course, if I need support with Frontius, they'll have an engineer call me.

As you know, this stuff is all "off the boat" and gets branded a few different ways.

The technology seems to be advancing fast with these combo units and its pretty crazy how much prices have dropped and how much simpler they make setup vs a Victron system with modules and wires everywhere. That said, I stick to a simple rule, if it moves (RV) I'm using Victron and if its stationary I use EG4.

We actually use EG4 mobile. Victron is all over the RV industry and I'd certainly use it on my next RV.
And Prose - he's great at demo and walk though.

 

[ericm]

.

You have 2 options: Off Grid or Grid-Tied.

Wow, really? I had no idea. Please do explain more.

If I was you I'd avoid any solar company that knocks on doors

Oh I was going use the first person who walked up to my house!


Seriously, why do you assume that I know absolutely nothing and that I'm a complete idiot? Nothing in my posts said either. I asked one very specific question and then you assumed. You're not the only person on this site who does that to people. It's ******* annoying.

 

[sjvicker]

To answer your question: Yes, there are systems that offer what you're asking for. And as to my assumptions, apologies as I did not assume you were a complete idiot only new to doing research on solar given the questions asked.

By all means, enjoy your solar system and post up the details on what you go with.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yea I know I could block them from connecting to their servers. I used to do networking for work and have done my own since. What I don't know is if the panels/inverters require connectivity to the manufacturer's servers in order to run. It sounds like not all do, which is great. It's going to be a requirement for all our stuff in the new house, except for the gate controller.

never heard of any brand that requires connectivity to a cloud server to operate.... highly doubt that is a feature on any brand because afterall many solar installations are in remote areas without any internet connectivity...