Solar Power

[Howie Coro]

So I am thinking about turning my house over to Solar energy and powering my new shop with it. I have been talking to a company called " Sun Power". I was wondering if anyone has used them or has any opinions on the company or going solar energy. I am completely new to this.

Thanks ahead of time...

 

[tyme2par4]

SunPower is the panel manufacturer, and they contract out jobs to local installers. They make solid products, but they are a lot more expensive than most others.
Look around your area for other local installers (avoid the big corporate names like SolarCity/Tesla and Sunrun). Look around for reviews, and get some quotes. With electric prices in CT, I'd guess your system would pay for itself in 5-10 years.
You also want to avoid leases and PPAs unless you're a non-profit.

 

[Perrorojo]

Energy Storage (batteries) and Inverter Are very critical to your experience. How many Kilowatts are you using a month right now?

 

[Git]

I had a system installed just about 2 years ago and have been extremely pleased with it. Here is another thread discussing solar that you may find interesting:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=389066

IMO Sun power is at the top of the food chain. Best Panels/Equipment, Best Warranty, their installers have to be certified by Sun Power and.... the most expensive

As mentioned, there are basically two ways to go solar. Buy the system yourself, keep in mind the 30% Federal Tax Credit is still in effect and your utility may have some other incentives or lease. (Personally, I would not get involved in a lease)

Be prepared to interview several companies - it is a learning experience and at some point, you should be able to make an educated decision on what kind of system that YOU want, not a system that THEY want to sell you. Since your talking with SunPower, have them work up a quote AND ask them to quote a similar system using other equipment. For example, I ended up with a Sun Power certified contractor who pitched me Sun Power and LG/Solar Edge. I couldn't justify the SunPower price and went with the LG/Solar Edge

 

[Howie Coro]

Thanks for the advice guys,

Why should I avoid a lease? no money out of my pocket, they warranty the panel and work for 25 years? and I would save about 30k in 20 years? I also would be getting a credit back from the power company for anything that's overproduced every year?

With my house and shop, I am averaging about 13, KW. Probably about 40 panels give or take.

Thanks again

 

[theoldwizard1]

Although it is more paper work, you are much better off going with solar panels and a grid tie inverter set up. Much less expensive becuase you do NOT need any batteries.

 

[Git]

For one, it's a personal decision - do you buy or lease your cars for example?

Secondly, solar can actually be a pretty good investment - but it depends on your location, weather conditions, etc etc

Keep in mind, if you purchase the system, YOU get the 30% Federal Tax Credit. If you lease, They get the credit. If you buy, they should project a break even point - usually 7 to 10 years down the road. After that, for the next 13+ years is all profit. With a lease, you're basically entering into a Power Purchase Agreement. You will get a discount on your electricity, usually 10% to 30% from what you are currently paying your utility. But - are they going to place a lien on your property? (it could affect you when it comes time to sell or refinance) And there really is no maintenance to speak of...

And if the system over generates - do you get the credit or does the lease company


Just google "solar lease versus own". Here is an example from Consumer Reports

https://www.consumerreports.org/energy-saving/real-cost-of-leasing-vs-buying-solar-panels/

Throw some numbers out - what is your annual electric bill, how many kWh is that and did they give you a quote to purchase it outright?

 

[yeldogt]

You have to crunch the numbers and factor in the warranty -- ROI. The tax credit is not AMT dependent.

how your utility factors and excess ... many have changed

 

[tyme2par4]

Thanks for the advice guys,

Why should I avoid a lease? no money out of my pocket, they warranty the panel and work for 25 years? and I would save about 30k in 20 years? I also would be getting a credit back from the power company for anything that's overproduced every year?

With my house and shop, I am averaging about 13, KW. Probably about 40 panels give or take.

Thanks again

Leases have a number of issues that most people don't realize.
1: a lot of the lease companies structure the lease so you pay more every year. If local electricity prices don't increase at their predicted rate (spoiler alert, they probably won't) then you may end up actually paying more than you would without them.
2: If you ever need to sell your house before the lease expires, it can be a nightmare. Your buyer will need to get approved by the lease company, which will turn off a large percentage of them.
3: Many lease companies will actually place a lien on your property for the entire term of the lease.

There are others that escape me at the moment. You can get low interest loans for solar, so it will still cost little to nothing up front. Then in 5-10 years once you pay off that loan, 100% of your electricity is now completely free. Unless you use more than you anticipated of course.
In the long run, you will save A LOT more buy either buying outright or getting a low interest loan.

 

[slow]

What kind of KW/Hour price are you getting a 5 year ROI? What kind of state or local incentives above the federal 30%?

 

[Falcon67]

>I also would be getting a credit back from the power company for anything that's overproduced every year?

Net metering is the term. Depends on the local/state tariff - the local co-op here does not to net. You utility might, they might also sell @ 0.13/kWh and only buy back @ 0.035. You'll need to ask and/or research that. Your power going pack into the grid may well be treated as wholesale.

No way in hell there is a 5 year ROI around these parts, and we have sun most of the time. Power is too cheap. And for grid tie, no battery - remember the sun doesn't shine at night. And, you have a low angle of sun to panel during your normal peak usage - morning and evening. We use a LOT of AC here at night in the summer. It can still be above 90F at 10 PM.

 

[Howie Coro]

Thanks, everyone, great advice.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Darn, typed reply on phone, system logged me off, while typing, lost it all. Will add it again when at the computer.


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[James-W]

I thought about going solar at one time and I did quite a bit of reading about it. There are pros and cons to solar and there are mixed reviews about it. Some people swear by it as the best thing they ever did, and some people say they wished they had not done it. I guess everyone just needs to sit down and crunch the numbers and then decide what they want to do. For myself, I came to the conclusion that the payback would be about 14 years, assuming all goes well. That didn't seem like a good deal at the time so I didn't do it.

 

[zak77]

I've heard very good things about PV Squared out of Mass but i dont know if they'd service you down in Somers. You want to own the system, not lease it, if possible. One thing to consider is the age of your roof, if it's a roof mounted array. So if your roof has 8 years left, you're looking at reroofing before the system is installed. I see that a vast majority of the time the roof structure needs reinforcing so it's another small cost to incorporate. A larger issue to consider is that your local fire dept may have certain policies when it comes to fighting a house on fire with panels on the roof. It could possibly impact insurance rates for those who have panels.

In the end i think it's a good idea to buy the system and enjoy the payback but it needs to be done correctly and understand all positives and negatives that come with the system.

 

[ard]

Thanks for the advice guys,

Why should I avoid a lease?

Good advice above, not sure it this was addressed:

If the utility/state changes rates based on your solar energy use, YOU will pay. So for example, if your utility gives you full credit for each kwh you put back onto the grid, thereby lowering your bill dollar for dollar....they might change in the future. Lets say that only pay 2 cents a kwh for power generated from 10AM to 5pm? You are still on the hook for your lease payments and whatever interest they are charging. On top of the power costs.

Also, AFAIK, sunpower doesnt 'contract out to local installers'. They have a network of distributors, each of them does their own installs. I know someone that runs one, it is where I got my panels.. (I did it myself)

I hate roof systems. If you have acreage, do ground mount.

 

[Gaessairka]

I'm planning to do a similar project this summer

all lights in the house will be converted to 12V DC, so no inverter needed on the lights. The inverters are expensive and you loose too much energy converting 12v to 240W for lights

According to a few videos on YouTube the life span of the batteries can be 20 to 25 years, but you should then scope your solar requirements correctly and never let the batteries discharge to more than 50%

Buy your batteries at the same time. Using old batteries with new batteries will shorten the life span of the new batteries.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Yesterday I attempted to add two comments, one has been made by others, so I'll skip that one.

According to two different solar system installers in THIS area, the incentives and subsidies which make a solar system more affordable for us "little guys" drop off sizeably when your system is sized to generate much more electricity than you will actually use in a one year period. Neither the government, nor the local utility companies want to assist YOU to compete with the utility company.



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[Git]

Yesterday I attempted to add two comments, one has been made by others, so I'll skip that one.

According to two different solar system installers in THIS area, the incentives and subsidies which make a solar system more affordable for us "little guys" drop off sizeably when your system is sized to generate much more electricity than you will actually use in a one year period. Neither the government, nor the local utility companies want to assist YOU to compete with the utility company.
.

At this point - the largest 'incentive' that I am aware of comes from the Federal Government in the form of a 30% Federal Income Tax Credit. It does not matter how big or efficient your system is, it's an automatic 30%

Regarding excess electricity generated - you have to understand Net Metering. For most people, and it will depend on your state and utility company, but when you generate more electricity than you currently are using, you get credit for that electricity at the RETAIL rate. (In my area, the cheapest rate is around $.17 per kWh.) BUT the WHOLESALE rate that Southern California Edison uses to buy electricity is substantially cheaper, around $.04 per kWh

So, if you are generating excess electricity that you are not going to use - why would they have to pay you $.17 per kWh when they can get it for $.04 per kWh?????

 

[tyme2par4]

So, if you are generating excess electricity that you are not going to use - why would they have to pay you $.17 per kWh when they can get it for $.04 per kWh?????

If you start becoming a net energy exporter, then you would technically become a utility generator. There are so many federal regulations that you would have to comply with, it would instantly negate any benefits.
It also exempts you from residential level rebates, because you are no longer a residential energy user.

 

[reader2580]

I'm planning to do a similar project this summer

all lights in the house will be converted to 12V DC, so no inverter needed on the lights. The inverters are expensive and you loose too much energy converting 12v to 240W for lights.

Solar systems typically use DC voltages higher than 12 volts. Inverters are very efficient and you still need inverters for anything that needs 115/230. Another panel or two would likely be cheaper than running 12 volt DC just for lights.

 

[slow]

While I agree with reader2580, unless he is using a 12 volt battery bank for this lighting needs with the solar just charging the battery banks and being consumed as 12 volts, almost like an isolated offgrid system. I do question using youtube as a battery reference and expecting 20-25 years as an average. I would expect most peoples first battery system gets them less than 10 years without a severe loss of capacity.

 

[reader2580]

To be clear, I am assuming he needs both DC 12 volt and AC 115/230 volts. Things change a lot if only 12 volts.

 

[6768rogues]

When I looked into solar at the public school where I worked, the engineers did their calculations based on zero solar energy for the winter months. It seems that the panels generate zero power when they are covered with snow and I was not about to pay someone to clear the snow from them.
If I were convinced to get solar, I would buy it outright and own it. I do not like debt, or liens, or rental contracts or anything else that means someone other than me has a claim to something on my property. At this time, I prefer to let the power company make the power and I buy it.

 

[R.Anderson]

When I looked into solar at the public school where I worked, the engineers did their calculations based on zero solar energy for the winter months. It seems that the panels generate zero power when they are covered with snow and I was not about to pay someone to clear the snow from them.
If I were convinced to get solar, I would buy it outright and own it. I do not like debt, or liens, or rental contracts or anything else that means someone other than me has a claim to something on my property. At this time, I prefer to let the power company make the power and I buy it.

Pending on the size of the system it pays to pay someone to clear the snow. but I'm talking large systems

Also with the system design snow shed depends on the angle of the solar modules and the clearance beneath for the snow pile. So it is possible there is no need to clear snow more than once or twice a year. Of course this all pends on the system's location, design, size, and weather.

 

[yeldogt]

My winter weekend place is in a well to do area with plenty of land -- sooooo many people have solar ----the grid can not handle any more installations where excess power is generated. The rules have changed as well regarding what the electric company will pay.

Initially, the federal government forced the electric companies to offset the excess power generated 1 for 1 -- and even pay you the full rate after that for any power you generated in excess of what was required. This would result is zero bills or even cash payments to homeowner. When this was new and expensive -- it was a good way to test the feasibility of solar. But the early adopters were not paying for the use of the grid -- and ofttimes they were costing other consumers when companies needed to upgrade the grid and pay an excess for the power. It warped the correct model -- partial solar ..... solar to take peak demand away from a property and flatten out the overall grid use.

In my area the power company was discussing that too many people have maximized the total output --- this often results in excess power now being generated at the wrong times of the day and year. They wanted people to give up some mid summer generation to increase spring and fall output with aiming changes .. they don't need or want this power.

 

[tyme2par4]

When I looked into solar at the public school where I worked, the engineers did their calculations based on zero solar energy for the winter months. It seems that the panels generate zero power when they are covered with snow and I was not about to pay someone to clear the snow from them.
If I were convinced to get solar, I would buy it outright and own it. I do not like debt, or liens, or rental contracts or anything else that means someone other than me has a claim to something on my property. At this time, I prefer to let the power company make the power and I buy it.

I'm assuming this school had a flat roof? In that case, you would be limited on production during the winter. However any residential home with a moderately pitched roof will shed the snow within a couple of days in most cases. Solar panels shed snow about as well as a metal roof.