solar

[small&rusty]

I'm in the middle of designing a future living space with a garage and have been considering the use of solar electricity. My main reason for wanting it, is to power the boiler system for my in floor heat. So then I figured why not just power the entire structure. For those who have it what do you like and dislike about it? Are there any limits as to what you can generate for power (220)? Are there benefits to being grid tied? I'd like to be completely off the grid, electricity costs are within reason here, but if I can be less dependent on others for services I can control on my own I'd rather do that.

 

[Git]

First of all - what is your estimated annual usage in kilowatt hour (kWh) and what are you currently paying per kWh?

I think you will find that being 'off the grid' to be cost prohibitive at this point unless your electrical usage is very minimal

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I'm not going to discourage you, I'm heading that same direction, but be prepared for a lot of naysayers.

Here's how I look at, if it does end costing more than utility in the end, It's what you want. When the power is out and you don't have a generator, solar is the ticket. As long as I make enough power to charge my cell phone and use the computer so I can be on GJ when the powers out, who cares?

 

[small&rusty]

The power bill where I'm currently living is 200+ a month. A coworker of mine has in floor heat and he pays that just for his floor heat. I haven't had time to crunch numbers on electricity yet, but its on the list. Living in an area of 5+ months of winter I'd rather put that $1200+ into a solar heating system than to the local power company.

 

[small&rusty]

I'm not going to discourage you, I'm heading that same direction, but be prepared for a lot of naysayers.

Here's how I look at, if it does end costing more than utility in the end, It's what you want. When the power is out and you don't have a generator, solar is the ticket. As long as I make enough power to charge my cell phone and use the computer so I can be on GJ when the powers out, who cares?

I live in a one horse town, and we get our power from 35-40 miles away. There was a storm last year came through and took out power for a week 30 miles from here in 20 degree weather. I'd rather be prepared, than be without.

 

[rsanter]

If you have access to the grid then use it. Trying to power a shop what will power machines or welders is a very expensive proposition.
Being off grid can be tough and requires you to really manage your energy, you can do that with many living conditions by heating and cooking with wood, oil or gas. Bot to operate a shop will require a large solar setup or lots of batteries

Connect to grid, install a few solar panels as well as a solar hot water heater

 

[ddawg16]

For those of you in the planning stages.......

Best thing you can do is design for insulation. The less heat loss you have, the less you have to heat. Cool thing (pun intended) about insulation....it doesn't cost money after you buy it.

Last year I had the crawl space of my original house insulated.....what a difference it made. Prior, walking down stairs into the existing part of the house in winter? Floor was COLD. Now? It's nice.

Next step....storage. There are products coming online that allow you to charge Li batteries at night when the rates are cheaper...then use the power during the day.

 

[rsanter]

Guys, look up The Half Plan on the Internet.
A guy was working to cut his utilities in half. Read all he did.

I live in expensive utilities CA and for my 1980 sq ft house I go between about 30 for electricity in the winter with a $40-$50 gas bill. The summer has my gas under $20 and the electricity under $90 and that is with using the AC.
My house was built efficient and I watch my energy use. Buy I do not act like a miser

Build it efficient, watch your orientation, take advantage of shading, invest a little more in energy efficient equipment and appliances

 

[ddawg16]

Guys, look up The Half Plan on the Internet.
A guy was working to cut his utilities in half. Read all he did.

I live in expensive utilities CA and for my 1980 sq ft house I go between about 30 for electricity in the winter with a $40-$50 gas bill. The summer has my gas under $20 and the electricity under $90 and that is with using the AC.
My house was built efficient and I watch my energy use. Buy I do not act like a miser

Build it efficient, watch your orientation, take advantage of shading, invest a little more in energy efficient equipment and appliances

Similar for me.....

When I did my 2-story addition, I insulated the **** out of the new parts. My existing house did not have any insulation in the walls. It does now. It wouldn't hurt to add some more in the attic (maybe this fall). One of the biggies....windows. I replaced all of the windows with fiberglass/vinyl double pained...low E, etc. Not only are they warmer/cooler....big difference on noise.

I have only one incandescent bulb in the house...oven light....
We have NO AC....I'm 4 miles from the beach. Winter can get cold...summer? Mid to high 90's....but I designed the layout so the heat goes up our stairs and out our skylight. Ceiling fans cool us at night.

Summertime gas is about $18. It might get up to $60 in the winter. Electric is about $45 in the summer and around $80 in the winter (forced air heating).

I figure my security camera system and all the computers are the biggest draw.....along with 3 teenage kids

 

[small&rusty]

I had planned on insulating the heck out of this place, and my secondary heating source will be a wood stove. I'm still looking into lighting options, and other energy efficient appliances.

I'm not against being on the grid, just would like to have something to help with heating costs and to use as a back up if and when the power goes out.

Appreciate the input so far keep it coming, this site is awesome.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I live in a one horse town, and we get our power from 35-40 miles away. There was a storm last year came through and took out power for a week 30 miles from here in 20 degree weather. I'd rather be prepared, than be without.

I heat the shop floor with a wood fired Taylor hot water I rebuilt what's probably one of the first they ever made. It's a little work for the fuel, but to me it's not much out of pocket now that it's running. It's best way IMO to heat a shop for my work habits.

If you're going run a shop off just solar, it'll take a huge battery bank and inverter, or a small generator for things like a lathe/mill and a welder.

I'm starting to look at small AC units designed for "tiny houses." I've seen some with like 600-1000W starting and around 4-500W running wattage.

I'd also look at wind power if you are in an area with some good breeze to help a solar system out. It works great at night. The place I was working at has small 160W wind turbines on the solar light towers they sell. Most that really get used go overseas to Iraq and Afghanistan areas. I have two I plan to add to what I'm building for here at the shop. If you're into building things on a small or large scale, the guys at the Otherpower discussion board are a wealth of information and parts alternate power sources. Some of those guys haven't bought power for 30+ years!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Guys, look up The Half Plan on the Internet.
A guy was working to cut his utilities in half. Read all he did.

I live in expensive utilities CA and for my 1980 sq ft house I go between about 30 for electricity in the winter with a $40-$50 gas bill. The summer has my gas under $20 and the electricity under $90 and that is with using the AC.
My house was built efficient and I watch my energy use. Buy I do not act like a miser

Build it efficient, watch your orientation, take advantage of shading, invest a little more in energy efficient equipment and appliances

Man thats quite the feat seeing as how you live in Pacific Gasp and extortions territory...

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Man thats quite the feat seeing as how you live in Pacific Gasp and extortions territory...

Is this it?

https://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is this it?

https://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm

I have no idea.

Ive never heard of that plan.

I was just commenting on rsanters utikity costs.

Profits Gone Elsewhere has first tier rates in the low .20cents/Kwh. Very very pricey.

Glad I have a local co-op that is far cheaper.

 

[Ironcrow]

Do you have space for a ground mount system? For a garage in Idaho, I'd be thinking low intensity heat for the floor with a solar hot water system and PV for the other electrical needs of the shop. So, you'd have maybe 40 or 50 PV panels for the roof, probably filling usable area there. Then another 300 sq ft of vacuum tube water heat mounted on the ground. I'd contract a renewable energy greenie company to design this system.

 

[small&rusty]

I would have room for a ground mount system, and the wind tends to blow here often. My neighbors a mile or so down the road have both wind and solar energy, but they don't live here all the time so its been hard to talk to them about how they system works. The main roof section of my building will be 30'x50' and from sunrise to sunset will have 100% exposure. I'll be contacting the local renewable energy place here in the next couple of weeks, to see what they say.

 

[PelicanPines]

I would have room for a ground mount system, and the wind tends to blow here often. My neighbors a mile or so down the road have both wind and solar energy, but they don't live here all the time so its been hard to talk to them about how they system works. The main roof section of my building will be 30'x50' and from sunrise to sunset will have 100% exposure. I'll be contacting the local renewable energy place here in the next couple of weeks, to see what they say.

I also have ground mount space... the last three solar cold calls I got won't do ground installs...

On a side note... if you roof mount... you are required I repeat required to use the solar company for the new roof. I even asked... what if I choose to buy the panels... the answer was... yes... you get a quote from a reputable roofer... WE do the work.

 

[jbwilkins]

I'm in the middle of designing a future living space with a garage and have been considering the use of solar electricity. My main reason for wanting it, is to power the boiler system for my in floor heat. So then I figured why not just power the entire structure. For those who have it what do you like and dislike about it? Are there any limits as to what you can generate for power (220)? Are there benefits to being grid tied? I'd like to be completely off the grid, electricity costs are within reason here, but if I can be less dependent on others for services I can control on my own I'd rather do that.

You need to find someone who has actually lived 'COMPLETELY off the grid' and talk to them about the pro's/cons and NOT as installer that want's to sell you something.

These guys

were going to be 'off the grid' but discovered how difficult it could be and the compromises they had to make were too great....Their time was worth more than the freedom....

I think you'll fine it's very tough/expensive with today's technology and/or you will end up making a lot of concessions to 'manage' you're usage. When you have one of those 'cloudy' weeks in the middle of the winter and you're system can't keep up, what's you're backup plan, what do you do in the middle of the night when you're battery bank starts running low......

Don't get me wrong, a 'grid tie' system is a great option, but completely 'off the grid', to me, is a tough sell with today's storage technology.....

 

[aunsafe2015]

You need to find someone who has actually lived 'COMPLETELY off the grid' and talk to them about the pro's/cons and NOT as installer that want's to sell you something.

These guys

were going to be 'off the grid' but discovered how difficult it could be and the compromises they had to make were too great....Their time was worth more than the freedom....

I think you'll fine it's very tough/expensive with today's technology and/or you will end up making a lot of concessions to 'manage' you're usage. When you have one of those 'cloudy' weeks in the middle of the winter and you're system can't keep up, what's you're backup plan, what do you do in the middle of the night when you're battery bank starts running low......

Don't get me wrong, a 'grid tie' system is a great option, but completely 'off the grid', to me, is a tough sell with today's storage technology.....

Wouldn't it be easy enough to just have a propane tank and a propane generator for the occasions that neither the sun nor the batteries are enough? I'm not saying going off the grid is a good idea, but it seems like if you really wanted to, good solar + batteries + propane tank + generator could keep you fully powered up 100% of the time.

Sounds pretty expensive though! What.. $15k for solar, another $10k or more per battery, and $10k or so for a "whole house" sized generator + transfer switch?

 

[Copymutt]

The weak link is still the batteries. Elon Musk has a back up battery system now that has become popular.
I'm too cheap, at least till it makes financial sense.
On the other hand I've constructed a passive solar home that uses only about 200 gal. Of propane per year and that includes powering the water heater. 1600 sq.ft.
This winter I added polycarbonate glazing panel inserts into both my OH garage doors and open the doors during the day. It works only because the doors face south. Have not used the hang down furnace since then.
Passive is less expensive, no pumps no plumbing, no electricity. Also have not needed the OH lighting. Very open and inviting. Total cost not counting materials from my scrap piles, $30.00. I said I was cheap!

 

[Lelandwelds]

The weak link is still the batteries. Elon Musk has a back up battery system now that has become popular.
I'm too cheap, at least till it makes financial sense.
On the other hand I've constructed a passive solar home that uses only about 200 gal. Of propane per year and that includes powering the water heater. 1600 sq.ft.
This winter I added polycarbonate glazing panel inserts into both my OH garage doors and open the doors during the day. It works only because the doors face south. Have not used the hang down furnace since then.
Passive is less expensive, no pumps no plumbing, no electricity. Also have not needed the OH lighting. Very open and inviting. Total cost not counting materials from my scrap piles, $30.00. I said I was cheap!

You are talking about the energy equivalent of celibacy , no caffeine or alcohol, and vegan diet all at the same time. Most people do not have willpower and dedication. And, you are talking about a high level of commitment.


Have you read about Pretty Good House, the Passive House movement, and articles from Building Science Corporation? Are you just trying to include a few other energy sources in the mix? Don't forget wind power if you own a good site.


Batteries still stink. There are enthusiasts (true believers) who have salvaged 25,000 lithium 18650 cellS for home power storage. Most other people are still using industrial lead acid cells. I would want to sell it back to the grid.

The people behind Home Power Magazine , Backwoods Solar, and others have done it for decades.

 

[djbmw]

There's quite a few "Homesteaders" on Youtube that tried to live off the grid for a few years and eventually threw in the towel. If you're still connected to the grid and using Solar as part of a government rebate program, sure - fill your boots.

If you want to try to be completely independent from the grid - solar is NOT the way to go unless you have VERY minimal electricity needs OR live in Texas (or somewhere that's sunny the majority of the time) OR if you have TONS of money to blow for no good reason.

In a nutshell - for most people, myself included, there is no break even point. Just when you're about to break even with the solar installation, you'll need to replace the $40,000 battery bank... or replace an inverter, etc etc.

If you want to go off-grid, look into micro-hydro (assuming you have flowing water on your property with elevation changes of 50 feet or more) - THEN, and only then, can you be self sufficient AND save money

 

[Perrorojo]

I'm in the middle of designing a future living space with a garage and have been considering the use of solar electricity. My main reason for wanting it, is to power the boiler system for my in floor heat. So then I figured why not just power the entire structure. For those who have it what do you like and dislike about it? Are there any limits as to what you can generate for power (220)? Are there benefits to being grid tied? I'd like to be completely off the grid, electricity costs are within reason here, but if I can be less dependent on others for services I can control on my own I'd rather do that.

You need to look at your energy storage. You have to match your watt hours of storage to the energy usage on days without sun. I've been trying to design a barn with about 10kw of solar and close to 13.5kw of storage.

 

[Lelandwelds]

needs OR live in Texas

Welcome! Come on down!


No really solar isn't impossible or even difficult. There just needs to be some adjustments.

If you aren't grid intertied, you need to run a generator at night for clothes washing ( or whatever) and use the electrical surplus to charge your batteries. Phantom electrical loads must go. Conventional appliances are out. Solar thermal is needed for DHW preheat. Etc. Etc.

You listen and run your house like a sail boat. You can't just turn a key and gun it.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

LOL, I told you so....

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Personally, I've been toying with the idea of a wood fired steam engine for running a generator...woods free around here...

If you live in a box, you think in a box....think outside the box.

If you remember those old 6 foot diameter TV dishes? They make great solar hot water heaters. You can even make steam with them! Add a little Mylar glued to the dish and have a steel tube loop for the focal point, convection is your water pump if you like.

Think outside the box! Batteries? Buy used, they're cheap, PITA to do it that way, but it works. Find a power generation service company and get a deal to buy the "take out" batteries changed because of time. They usually have been well maintained. Same with Cell tower batteries from UPS systems.

 

[Retlaw 66]

The weak link is still the batteries.
..... I've constructed a passive solar home.....
Passive is less expensive, no pumps no plumbing, no electricity.

Yes, passive solar should be considered in a new build!
I've always enjoyed the free winter heat from my south-facing windows in my home.... as does my cat.
But when I 'upgraded' some windows in the other rooms to 'energy-efficient' versions, I was very disappointed to find the glass also BLOCKED the wintertime solar heat.

For a new build, where heat is more of a concern than cooling, design with passive solar in mind, and choose the glass accordingly.

 

[ripperd]

Yes, passive solar should be considered in a new build!
I've always enjoyed the free winter heat from my south-facing windows in my home.... as does my cat.
But when I 'upgraded' some windows in the other rooms to 'energy-efficient' versions, I was very disappointed to find the glass also BLOCKED the wintertime solar heat.

For a new build, where heat is more of a concern than cooling, design with passive solar in mind, and choose the glass accordingly.

Yup! Low U factor is always good, this is its insulating ability.

But the SHGC varies based on your climate zone. If you are in a predominantly heating zone then you want windows which allow solar radiation in. If you are in a predominately cooling zone, then you want windows which block solar radiation.