Soldering copper

[bannerd]

Hey all, first time soldering and had a heck of a time. The main water shut off was leaking like crazy. I bought a quick connect just in case. Ended up taking the shop vac and sucking water out of the pipe. From there I was able to flux the ball valve (sanded that and the pipe). Soldered the ball valve until it dripped out the bottom. Turn the main water back on and no leaks. Now I'm paranoid the water line is going to leak or the solder will bust apart.

The joint looks good, I'll post pictures in a few.

 

[bannerd]

Alright, so here is the old water main shut off that has been leaking (internal damage maybe?).

This is the gate valve I put in, heavy duty made in italy. This is also the side where I doubt the solder job.. although I'm not sure if that is a decent job.

This is the back side;

This is the entire job;

Before I soldered this, I did a bunch of practice on a few small items and found that if I stop from the top and let the solder (gravity) work it down I get a good joint. After talking to a few plumbers "I don't know if I'm getting the scare tactic or not". They told me if I don't solder properly that the pipe will blow apart at the joint. My grandfather said if water doesn't leak out of it, don't worry about it.

What do you guys think?

 

[Grapeking]

Before I soldered this, I did a bunch of practice on a few small items and found that if I stop from the top and let the solder (gravity) work it down I get a good joint. After talking to a few plumbers "I don't know if I'm getting the scare tactic or not". They told me if I don't solder properly that the pipe will blow apart at the joint. My grandfather said if water doesn't leak out of it, don't worry about it.

What do you guys think?

A couple of tips: heat the joint, then apply the solder and allow it to flow toward the flame. It will **** into the joint (capillary action) when you do it right. Also, more solder doesn't mean it's a better joint - cleaning, fluxing, and proper heat/technique make the difference.

All in all, for your first time, it doesn't look bad!

 

[zkling]

Hard to tell exactly in those pics, but from what I can see, I've seen FAR worse. Those don't look cold, especially the left one. If you are certain you filled the joints, i wouldn't worry about it. I always flux real good, heat mostly from the bottom and then pull back the heat and "wipe" the solder on, letting the joint fill from the top. Quickly wipe with a damp rag.

 

[383 240z]

I'd say your good to go. Only time I've had problems with a bad solder joint, the solder had a "frosted" look to it. Usually the cause was the pipe moved before the joint was completely. Called a cold joint. You have a complete circle of solder on the joint, the pipe doesn't look like it backed out at all. Nice job. Keith

 

[kazlx]

A little tip, grab some white bread, make a ball out of the center section and shove it down the tubing towards the source of the water. This will help keep the section dry that you need to solder. When you're done open a large oriface outlet and run it to get the bread out. It will mostly disintegrate from the running water.

 

[bannerd]

Wow, a lot of good advice. I made sure the pipe was tight and snug and I really gooped the flux in. I did buy some of this white flux and wasn't impressed with it. Oatey had some paste flux that work really well, light brown.

Mine consisted of a 1/4 copper tube through the ball valve.. mechanic wire to hold the vac hose.. shove the copper tube well away from the work area and leave the vac on. The bread trick could have saved me some electricity, ha!

 

[Whitworth]

Looks good, could have wiped the solder with a clean, DRY rag to give it a more professional look.

I've never seen a solder joint (good,bad or ugly) blow apart, except with frozen pipes.

Gary

 

[Cyberbear]

Clean, flux, apply heat where you want the solder to flow. I usually fill the joint until one drop forms. Wipe excess if you wish.

 

[mrpizza]

I always heat the **** out of the joint with a liberal amount of flux, then once its hot run the solder on the joint. Never had an issue.

 

[nicksnothereman]

Hey all, first time soldering and had a heck of a time. The main water shut off was leaking like crazy. I bought a quick connect just in case. Ended up taking the shop vac and sucking water out of the pipe. From there I was able to flux the ball valve (sanded that and the pipe). Soldered the ball valve until it dripped out the bottom. Turn the main water back on and no leaks. Now I'm paranoid the water line is going to leak or the solder will bust apart.

The joint looks good, I'll post pictures in a few.

I've never "soldered" piping but to answer your question...if it happens it happens. Just check it periodically. Usually with wiring I "overdo" it a bit so the connection is good, maybe you should do that with piping as a just in case. Could probably put gasket sealer over the solder without any issues; won't be up to code but will be a decent stopgap/just in case so if it leaks it won't leak that much/cause water damage.

 

[Architorture]

the best looking soldering job is one that doesn't have any water dripping out of it...usually if you don't discover a leak immediately, you aren't going to develop one over time.

 

[brewchief]

Looks decent to me, I would have wiped the joints with a dry rag or glove or even a bare finger if I'm feeling brave to get the dog turds off it but that's more a matter of appearance.

Wipe any flux off as some will cause discoloration.

FWIW the valve you installed is a ball valve not a gate valve, ball valves are better.

I've seen pros do far worse.

 

[Farres]

That joint will outlast you--and me.

 

[Kent_B]

The last time I had to solder copper pipe, I learned the trick of stuffing a plug of white bread into the dripping pipe to temporarily stop the dripping water. It will dissolve with water pressure. Sadly, I learned the trick from an old plumber after I'd finished the job.

 

[lilredex]

#6 here.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3998410

I am amazed at the number of older experienced plumbers that have never heard of the "bread plug" trick. It has been around forever.

 

[gungatim]

A little tip, grab some white bread, make a ball out of the center section and shove it down the tubing towards the source of the water. This will help keep the section dry that you need to solder. When you're done open a large oriface outlet and run it to get the bread out. It will mostly disintegrate from the running water.

One of the best plumbing tricks out there...hot water dripping on you while you spend half an hour wondering why you can't get a supposedly empty pipe hot enough *****...

 

[APEowner]

You picked a heck of a joint for your first solder job! That looks fine and is in no danger of coming apart. I've never seen a joint that didn't leak come apart unless it's frozen.

As you discovered the two big tricks are to have a dry joint and a clean joint. Once you have that and everything is fluxed and assembled heat the female part and touch the solder to the joint. If it doesn't wick it in then it's either not clean or not dry.

 

[Fastfish]

Had to chime in here as I have re-plumbed several homes - completely.
I agree with all previous posts. I have used wet vac many times also.

One more suggestion. Heat the fitting as it has more mass then the pipe. Also use lead free solder (tin/antimony)

 

[allenb12]

If it is not leaking you probably will never have problems. Stuffing bread in a leaking line is the best thing I have ever found. The plumber that showed me the trick had to stuff 2 loves of bread in a leaking 2" line to solder the joint.

 

[johninct]

Does anyone know where you can get a tool to stop the water coming back. I saw one once at a plumbing supply house (I should have bought it) that had a rubber plug on a length of rod? Just shove the rubber plug+rod into the pipe, turn the handle and the rubber plug swells up creating a dam.

 

[Wylaco]

Does anyone know where you can get a tool to stop the water coming back. I saw one once at a plumbing supply house (I should have bought it) that had a rubber plug on a length of rod? Just shove the rubber plug+rod into the pipe, turn the handle and the rubber plug swells up creating a dam.

I was a lic plumber and actually owned a shop for a while, that was a previous life

We used Jet Swets. They are not cheap though. Any plumber worth a darn knows the bread trick, works like a charm! Nice job on the sweat job!

Link to the tool
http://www.faucetdepot.com/faucetde...gfG0LM9MrHpLOUSq63VstSpgeT-r35fV4waAlUO8P8HAQ

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Your grandfather is right. All the times I've sweated copper, if it didn't leak right away when turning the water on, it never did.

 

[cdestuck]

And after any solder job, especially when using the bread trick, remove the aerator from the closest faucet and let the water run full force a bit to clean out any junk.

 

[Rickss96]

the best looking soldering job is one that doesn't have any water dripping out of it...usually if you don't discover a leak immediately, you aren't going to develop one over time.

That's also been my experience on the few jobs I've done. BUT, recently had a leak on a solder joint inside the wall of my house. What a mess! And that job was done by a professional plumber, about 20 years ago. It appeared to be a pin-hole leak at the joint, although I'll admit to not looking too closely at the problem, just wanted to get it fixed!

 

[404]

I was a lic plumber and actually owned a shop for a while, that was a previous life

We used Jet Swets. They are not cheap though. Any plumber worth a darn knows the bread trick, works like a charm! Nice job on the sweat job!

Link to the tool
http://www.faucetdepot.com/faucetde...gfG0LM9MrHpLOUSq63VstSpgeT-r35fV4waAlUO8P8HAQ

Thanks for the link, I never even imagined this existed. Here is a quick video of how it works.. amazing.

Regards,
404

 

[55bigblockcid]

You`re fine with that.
If it `s not leaking you`re good to go ,you`ve already sweated enough.LOL

 

[55bigblockcid]

Hey I used to use those jet sweat type plugs at the last contractor I worked for,they are a life saver when you need them.
Bread works if there is no pressure building up,but I have changed valves out with those jet sweat plugs without turning the water off,has to be a full port valve to do that though because you can`t get it through the valve and into the pipe otherwise.
I didn`t need them often but they did come in handy at times.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

A little tip, grab some white bread, make a ball out of the center section and shove it down the tubing towards the source of the water. This will help keep the section dry that you need to solder. When you're done open a large oriface outlet and run it to get the bread out. It will mostly disintegrate from the running water.

Just last month a friend of mine asked me for advise on how to solder a pipe that kept dripping. I told him the white bread trick. An hour later he called me back saying how great it worked. Then a week later his wife called and asked me if I could come by and clean all their faucet aerators out. Apparently he used whole grain wheat bread!

 

[404]

Hey I used to use those jet sweat type plugs at the last contractor I worked for,they are a life saver when you need them.
Bread works if there is no pressure building up,but I have changed valves out with those jet sweat plugs without turning the water off,has to be a full port valve to do that though because you can`t get it through the valve and into the pipe otherwise.
I didn`t need them often but they did come in handy at times.

Good point on the full port valve.. The lesson here is make sure the tool fits through all the new parts BEFORE you cut the old parts off.

Regards,
404

 

[fnieto]

A couple of tips: heat the joint, then apply the solder and allow it to flow toward the flame. It will **** into the joint (capillary action) when you do it right. Also, more solder doesn't mean it's a better joint - cleaning, fluxing, and proper heat/technique make the difference.

All in all, for your first time, it doesn't look bad!

Exactly! like reading it from a text book.....You kids remember those? haha

 

[TractorJeff]

As far as a 20 year old solder joint failing, it probably wasn't the solder joint job that failed. It is the PH of the water eroding the solder causing it to fail over time! Had the same issue inside a wall behind the shower 2 winters ago. Kept hearing a noise behind the shower. Put a little hole in the wall, peered in and saw the "anti-water hammer tube" had a pin hole leak squirting against the shower stall. Thankfully I had a spare on the shelf in my "Emergency" plumbing box, 2 hours later all fixed, mess cleaned up! You live in a really old house you will want one of those as you'll find the local store closed just before you got there on a Sunday night!
It was all old LEAD looking solder joints which I suspicion the PH of the water eroded it, not poor solder job as I have been in the basements of 3 other old renovated houses and the copper pipes LOOK BAD that had the old 60/40 lead tin solder!