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Soldering gun recomendations

cgv69

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I used to do automotive wiring professionally and still do some on occasion. I am a big believer in soldering connections (as opposed to using crimp connectors) but prefer "gun" style models over pen style.

The best gun I've used is the Wall Lenk LG400 (sold under many different names including SnapOn, MAC and Craftsman). It heats up quickly and gets very hot making easy work of larger gauge connections but it had one major draw back. It would burn through a tip in less then 2 months of daily use. That's a big issue because with this particular design, the tip is part of the heating element so they have to be replaced as a unit. At $40-$50 a pop, that gets real expensive fast.

So instead I've limped by with the Weller "professional" model but I've never been very happy with it and would like to know if any one here to could recommend something on par with the LG400 performance wise but with more affordable replacement tips?
 
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skruft

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What problem do you find with the Weller soldering guns? They are the only ones I see everywhere.
 
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cgv69

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The Wellers suffer from a few issues IMO.

My biggest issue with the Wellers is they don't generate a lot of heat. They are fine for 14ga and smaller wires but when you start getting up into the 12ga or larger stuff, the Wellers take forever to get the wire up to the proper temp.

The tip attachment with the 2 screws is not a great design in my experience. They tend to come loose and when that happens, the tip doesn't heat up properly. I find I pretty much have to tighten them every time before using the gun and sometimes multiple times during use.

Another thing I don't like is the tip's themselves. They are too fat at the end IMO but worse then that is they are too soft making them very easy to bend or break.

In my experience, the wellers are OK for the hobbiest and are usable professionally but they are not what I would consider a professional grade tool
 

5mall5nail5

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The Wellers suffer from a few issues IMO.

My biggest issue with the Wellers is they don't generate a lot of heat. They are fine for 14ga and smaller wires but when you start getting up into the 12ga or larger stuff, the Wellers take forever to get the wire up to the proper temp.

The tip attachment with the 2 screws is not a great design in my experience. They tend to come loose and when that happens, the tip doesn't heat up properly. I find I pretty much have to tighten them every time before using the gun and sometimes multiple times during use.

Another thing I don't like is the tip's themselves. They are too fat at the end IMO but worse then that is they are too soft making them very easy to bend or break.

In my experience, the wellers are OK for the hobbiest and are usable professionally but they are not what I would consider a professional grade tool

I dunno man - I work for an aerospace/defense company and we solder everything from 12 gauge to 30 gauge with about 100 weller irons on our production floor. Seems to work just fine ;)
 

theoldwizard1

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I am a big believer in soldering connections (as opposed to using crimp connectors) ...
Then you are not using the right connectors and crimpers !

I only use non-insulated connectors, Install a piece of shrink tubing first and shrink it on. A very professional, strong connection.


If you are trying to solder "big" wire (> 14 gauge), don't waste time with gun, get a Butane soldering torch like the Portasol 125. They heat quick and have plenty of power.

If that isn't enough, then stop messing around and go for the really thing; American Beauty 300 Watt, 7/8" Heavy-Duty Soldering Iron !
 

dankicksass

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Solder guns don't have the versatility that a butane pen soldering iron does. Fits where your fingers do, gets the job done and you're making the money.
 

JASTECH

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I have the military Weller Soldering kit in metal case, Hakko desoldering station, Radio Shack dual temp (20+ yrs. old) and a Butane C'man/Snappy/ect. torch. When I solder >14 or outside jobs then that torch is the way to go. I have the kit with all the extras needed. Hope this helps.
 

Outlawmws

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The Wellers suffer from a few issues IMO.

My biggest issue with the Wellers is they don't generate a lot of heat.
They are fine for 14ga and smaller wires but when you start getting up into the 12ga or larger stuff, the Wellers take forever to get the wire up to the proper temp.

The tip attachment with the 2 screws is not a great design in my experience. They tend to come loose and when that happens, the tip doesn't heat up properly. I find I pretty much have to tighten them every time before using the gun and sometimes multiple times during use.

Another thing I don't like is the tip's themselves. They are too fat at the end IMO but worse then that is they are too soft making them very easy to bend or break.

In my experience, the wellers are OK for the hobbiest and are usable professionally but they are not what I would consider a professional grade tool

What size Weller gun are you using, and which of the two settings are you using? (the high setting is the first "in between setting) I can't imagine the D550 not having enough heat @ 325W...

I like that the tips can be bent, as I've been able to bend them to go around corners. maybe you need a lighter touch? :dunno:
 
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mojo3120

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cgv69

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I dunno man - I work for an aerospace/defense company and we solder everything from 12 gauge to 30 gauge with about 100 weller irons on our production floor. Seems to work just fine ;)
Maybe it depends on which Weller you're using but the ones I've used didn't hold a lick to LG400 performance wise in my experience. I will say the Wellers are tough and will take a lot of abuse (except for the tip of course)

Then you are not using the right connectors and crimpers
To each their own. I'm not saying a quality connector, installed correctly won't work but I have always been taught the best electrical connection is soldered (and then shrink wrapped for beauty and insulation). That and the place I worked at didn't allow crimp connectors anyway.

What size Weller gun are you using, and which of the two settings are you using? (the high setting is the first "in between setting) I can't imagine the D550 not having enough heat @ 325W..
I'm not positive so I would have to verify when I get home but from what I'm reading, the D550 is only rated at 260/200 watts? (I always use it in the first, half pull/high heat position.

I've never used one but it looks like I need to try one of those butane pens? I remember one guy in the shop had one (no idea which one?) but he didn't use it much because he said it was too finicky? Not sure if it was just a cheap one or him being an idiot?

I may also pick up another LG400, I don't do anywhere near as much wiring as I use to so replacement tips shouldn't be as big of a deal, especially if I only use it when I need the extra heat. That AB 300w/7/8" soldering iron looks sweat but way out of my comfort level price wise!
 
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GRX

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To each their own. I'm not saying a quality connector, installed correctly won't work but I have always been taught the best electrical connection is soldered (and then shrink wrapped for beauty and insulation). That and the place I worked at didn't allow crimp connectors anyway.
Agreed. There is a very good reason connectors are frowned upon on certain occasions, marine applications for instance. And yeah, I much prefer a good iron over a soldering gun.
 

BillK

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cg,
I have never used anything other than a Weller. The one I have at home is probably 30 years old and I have a fairly new one at the shop, maybe 10 years old :). You can get the tips anywhere. I just finished soldering some PL259 connecters on some antenna cable and had no problem and they are heavy and require a bunch of heat.
 

Outlawmws

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SNIP
I'm not positive so I would have to verify when I get home but from what I'm reading, the D550 is only rated at 260/200 watts? (I always use it in the first, half pull/high heat position.
SNIP

Unless they changed the specs, a D550 is 240/325W @ 2.5A.

FYI:

8200N 100/140W @1.2A

Weller Jr, (8100) 1.2A (so guessing 120W)

I bought that 8200N new in new in 1962 or so, and it has soldered slot car chassis, (it's first primary job) and even the Weller Jr had soldered 12 Ga solid copper wire...

My one thing about Wellers is if you go very long between soldering jobs, ALWAYS loosen and re-tighten the tip nuts to get a solid connection. A layer of corrosion in between will make then not heat well.
 

Davefr

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Unless they changed the specs, a D550 is 240/325W @ 2.5A.

Weller "dumbed down" the specs on the D550. The older (ie good ones) were 325 on high. The new D550's only go to 260 max. They didn't bother to change the model number.
 

jrlp

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I am finicky about my soldering irons.. I did electronic repair for a few years and learned a few tricks. Namely use antiseize on all bolts/screws and I rub a layer on the tip itself. I've never had an issue of screws loosening or tips galling in place. I don't know if antiseize once it's dried is any good as a thermally conductive paste... But from my experience there is no downside. I put just enough on the bottom and sides of the tip so that after its slid into position, I wipe any that came off up. Torque the screws down finger tight and never worry again.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

theoldwizard1

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I dunno man - I work for an aerospace/defense company and we solder everything from 12 gauge to 30 gauge with about 100 weller irons on our production floor. Seems to work just fine ;)

Maybe it depends on which Weller you're using ...
BIG TIME !

The best way to solder heavy gauge wire is with an IRON. Ya know, a big lump of metal that gets hot and stays hot !
 

rshadd

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Try the Weller®/Portasol® Super-pro Self-igniting Butane Soldering Iron Kit. It's my goto for soldering automotive electrical connections. Heats up fast too. Very handy.
http://www.apexhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103060976

pd_PSI100K_100.jpg
 
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Tribalvision

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I did alot of soldering when I built my show truck. I did it all by butane and it worked great. did 12 gauge and 14 gauge throughout the install. my back up is a Weller gun and I've never had issues with that either.
 

nanofrog

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To each their own. I'm not saying a quality connector, installed correctly won't work but I have always been taught the best electrical connection is soldered (and then shrink wrapped for beauty and insulation). That and the place I worked at didn't allow crimp connectors anyway.
In regard to signal integrity, they're both about the same when done properly (crimp relies on cold weld, which is where the metals in both the wire and connector itself actually bond to one another as a weld, not just physical contact held together via mechanical force). This weld actually has less resistance than a soldered joint. Making the general statement of "soldered always = superior connection" technically incorrect.

So it depends on the application as to which method would be a superior connection.

For example, soldered joints in high vibration environments isn't desirable due to the solder wicking up the wire and creating a mechanical stress point (wire breaks where the solder ends in the wire strands). Hence the use of crimp connectors in most automotive applications (vibration has caused soldered joints to fail in automotive applications).

Agreed. There is a very good reason connectors are frowned upon on certain occasions, marine applications for instance. And yeah, I much prefer a good iron over a soldering gun.
There are proper crimp connectors for marine use, which would be better for high vibration and incorporate a proper seal to keep out moisture and corrosive chemicals, such as salt. Unfortunately, they're on the expensive side, even for a premium connector by manufacturers such as T&B, Panduit, Molex, ....

As per what to solder with, I far prefer an iron as well. But I work on a bench when soldering in most applications (electronics), and use crimp connectors and a ratcheting crimp frame when I need to make an automotive repair (insulated shrink connectors or add adhesive shrink to non-insulated types if I can seal the entire connector; not on spade terminals).

Namely use anti-seize on all bolts/screws and I rub a layer on the tip itself.
Most temp controlled irons have gotten away from threaded tips and set screws.
 
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cgv69

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Nanofrog - It is clear this is a subject that you have done a lot more research on then I have but some of your statements goes against my own personal experience

For example, soldered joints in high vibration environments isn't desirable due to the solder wicking up the wire and creating a mechanical stress point (wire breaks where the solder ends in the wire strands). Hence the use of crimp connectors in most automotive applications (vibration has caused soldered joints to fail in automotive applications)
I am curious what you base that statement on, specifically the part that I highlighted?

I ask because I've worked on a lot of wiring in a lot of cars from all over the world and have never seen a factory installed crimp connector other then the ones used to terminate a line into a disconnect plug and to my knowledge, those plugs are used to simply to make assembly and servicing easier and faster.

I can also tell you I never once saw a car come into our shop with a failed solder joint (and that's the only way we did it) but I could have made a small career out of fixing electrical connections made using other methods, including crimp connectors.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing with you. Everything you wrote may be 100% true but it doesn't match my own personal experience and right, wrong or indifferent, I plan to continue soldering all of my connections.

Back to the original topic, when I got home and checked, I found my current Weller is a "Universal" model rated at 140\100 so obviously it's not one of their top models. I would considering trying one of their 550 or 650 models but most reviews I read seem to indicate that their quality has really fallen off in recent years?

Not too sure what I'm going to do yet but thanks for all the input so far and please feel free to add more if you have a favorite hasn't been mentioned yet!
 

rharman

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I am finicky about my soldering irons.. I did electronic repair for a few years and learned a few tricks. Namely use antiseize on all bolts/screws and I rub a layer on the tip itself. I've never had an issue of screws loosening or tips galling in place. I don't know if antiseize once it's dried is any good as a thermally conductive paste... But from my experience there is no downside. I put just enough on the bottom and sides of the tip so that after its slid into position, I wipe any that came off up. Torque the screws down finger tight and never worry again.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Interesting thought. I wonder if the thermal grease for a computer CPU heatsink would be a good option here.
 

jrlp

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Interesting thought. I wonder if the thermal grease for a computer CPU heatsink would be a good option here.

All thermal paste contains is silicone and very fine powdered aluminum, copper, boron, etc.. It's to eliminate air gaps from not completely flat surfaces by making the flakes of metal act like a bridge between low spots.

Antiseize is the same stuff, with a mineral oil carrier.. It does dry out on the first heating but makes no difference. The powered aluminum or copper transfer heat and let's you remove the screws/tip just fine. I do clean/reapply once every few months or if I drop it a few times the screws loosen up.

My 45w and 15w live in my electronics mobile box, that contains heat shrink, crimp terminals, electrical tape, dikes, crimes, hemostats, and my Fluke 189.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

nanofrog

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Nanofrog - It is clear this is a subject that you have done a lot more research on then I have but some of your statements goes against my own personal experience
Part of my job.

I am curious what you base that statement on, specifically the part that I highlighted?

Hence the use of crimp connectors in most automotive applications (vibration has caused soldered joints to fail in automotive applications)
It's not that a soldered joint is **** when done correctly, but that there are consistency problems associated with it (breakage due to vibration at the solid to stranded transition junction, corrosion [either due to moisture/chemicals, or from flux that remains due to a poor cleaning = remains active this way], cold joints [also breaks due to vibration], and a few others).

So the automotive companies worked with the electrical industry to find a solution, and they came up with crimp connectors and their respective tooling. Specifically, open barrel types (including later versions such as Weatherpack and Metripack) and non-insulated **** splices for automotive use (the insulation crimp is what makes these suitable for automotive use due to the strain relief provided by the insulation crimp).

As a result of all of this, most car makers made using crimp connectors company policy for electrical connections (separate from electronics). There's even legality issues, but I won't go into that (different specifications between automotive, aerospace, and marine applications found under MIL-Spec, DOT, DIN, ISO, CSA, TUV, ... types of regulated standards).

To give you a bit more information, here's a few sources.

FAQs - Crimp vs Solder: PROS & CONS (not explicitly aimed at automotive applications, but the information is the same = applicable).
Crimp vs Crimp & Solder - an article
Soldering vs Crimping (from a forum, but valid)​

I ask because I've worked on a lot of wiring in a lot of cars from all over the world and have never seen a factory installed crimp connector other then the ones used to terminate a line into a disconnect plug and to my knowledge, those plugs are used to simply to make assembly and servicing easier and faster.
Can you elaborate? Pictures would be ideal if possible.

Even in the instances I've seen a solder joint (one wire into two wire splice), it's part of a crimp as well (compression solder crimp; may or may not have adhesive lined heat shrink covering it, depending on vehicle age from what I've seen). For example, early '80's Jeep CJ's I've seen had this type connector (flat, not round), but no adhesive heat shrink over it, but rubberized adhesive tape instead (definitely factory). Wire strip length was quite long as well to be sure that the solder wasn't wicking up into the insulation.

As per using disconnects, it's definitely there to make production and service much easier and faster. But it was also chosen for the previously listed reasons vs. say a screw terminal to bare wire or insulation displacement connectors (cuts through insulation to make contact with the wire).

I can also tell you I never once saw a car come into our shop with a failed solder joint (and that's the only way we did it) but I could have made a small career out of fixing electrical connections made using other methods, including crimp connectors.
If the joint is done properly (sealed, and there's mechanical support), it would be fine.

Where you run into the issues with crimp connectors, is that the terminal, tooling (wrong die, insufficient location,...), or skill of the operator (location of the terminal in the die, incorrect pressure, strip length, ...) weren't correct for the application.

It may seem illogical, but keep in mind that in a production setting, those crimps are not usually created using traditional hand tools. They're either using electric or pneumatically operated with precise pressure control (can even include electronic monitoring, equivalent to tracking torque values for bolts and other fasteners), the dies are definitely the correct ones for the terminal being used (no "close enough" mentality), ... that give a consistent terminal each time. They even have to go in periodically to measure the dies for wear and replace them as necessary.

Quite a bit different from how they're done in the field. But it's not impossible to do in the field by any means (repairs, add-ons, or low volume production), but it does take some care to be sure to use the correct techniques (location positioning, strip length, proper insertion of the wire into the ferrule, ...) and tooling with the terminal being used. Not that hard, but the right tools and some practice to get it right is important. Otherwise, the crimp will be incorrect and fail (what I suspect you're seeing).

And in the case of the tooling for hand use, it can be fairly expensive to have a full range of tools (not all of them have interchangeable dies, or may not have every profile you need). Particularly if you're buying what was designed for and sold by the terminal manufacturer such as T&B, Molex, Panduit, ... vs. an inexpensive Taiwanese or Chinese tool in my experience (cheap stuff is a **** shoot, even for the ratcheting types in my experience).

Personally, I stick with Pressmaster (specifically, the MCT system for field use). BTW, they're the ODM for many terminal manufacturers, including Molex, T&B, Tyco, and NWS make at least some for Panduit (the other company I prefer to Knipex or Sargent as their die sets currently offered are too small/shrunk respectively).

I'm not keen on the non-ratcheting plier types either as it's too easy to be inconsistent on pressure (no compound jaw types, just that of a regular plier with typically 2 - 3 profiles ground in them). Too hard to get it right the first time IMHO (seen where it looks good, but when measured against specifications, it wasn't).

I would considering trying one of their 550 or 650 models but most reviews I read seem to indicate that their [Weller] quality has really fallen off in recent years?
Unfortunately, it has due to Cooper's more recent management decisions. :( :mad:

I've used Weller for years, and own a WD1001 personally (WD1 power head + WMP iron + WP80 iron), and they're not the same quality as older stations. Their newest line, the WX series, had to be recalled they were so bad.

For a home/DIY'er, I'd recommend a Hakko FX-888 for those that live in the US (can be had off of Amazon for just over $80; pricing tends to get ugly in other parts of the world), and for professional use, JBC.
 

theoldwizard1

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I have NEVER seen a solder connection in a "production" care (except, of course, inside electronic modules, but those a wave soldered). Too slow/expensive and crimping works fine.

In line splices are done by twisting bare wire at least 1½ times and then cover with old fashion friction tape (cloth based, very sticky). The whole bundle is then wrapped in non-adhesive plastic tape or convoluted tubing.
 

5mall5nail5

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but I have always been taught the best electrical connection is soldered

That's your first problem! 99% of things 10 - 22 gauge on an airplane, etc., are crimped. Soldering on PCBs is obviously your only option, but when building chassis harness and such, I'd be hard pressed to find a soldered joint anywhere.

Check this link out

http://dtaforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10
 
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cgv69

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That's your first problem! 99% of things 10 - 22 gauge on an airplane, etc., are crimped.
I guess its a good thing I don't work on airplanes then! ;)

Seriously though, while I appreciate all the input regarding soldering vs crimping (especially from nanofrog), that's not really what this thread is about. Lets try to stay focused on the original topic, soldering guns/irons. Thanks! :beer:
 

nanofrog

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Lets try to stay focused on the original topic, soldering guns/irons. Thanks! :beer:
At least I added the part about soldering stations at the bottom of the post. :p

Not as convenient to use as a butane unit, but it has proper temperature control which allows for proper joints.
 

srmofo

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Ive got 2 of these and they work great. Sears has them on sale for about $25 every so often.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-dual-heat-soldering-gun/p-00927320000P
The downside is the tips cost as much as the guns do because the heating element is built into them.

The upside is since there is so much mass to the tip is does a great job at not heating everything up, because the heat transfer is quick. The dual range is great at getting the tip up to range quickly and then holding it there without over heating it.
 
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cgv69

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At least I added the part about soldering stations at the bottom of the post. :p

Not as convenient to use as a butane unit, but it has proper temperature control which allows for proper joints.

:lol: - No sweat man. That suggestion was actually helpful because I've been wanting to get a good bench unit too! :beer:
 
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