Solid Rivets 101

[twopints]

mystery purple rivets are from Aircraft General Standard "AGS" this is the British system not the American AN system ( shock horror there is a world out side the USA )

purple (Violet) "L86 Aluminium Alloy"
green "L58 Aluminium Alloy"
plain "L37 Aluminium Alloy"
black "L36 Aluminium"

 

[luvit]

"here are my rivets.. i only have 50... plus one bigger one.
IH riverts, though lol"

I think those are for the blades on a sickle mower, but you may have already known that.

ah.. you made me think way back..
my dad would have to replace sickel blades on his combine headers.. i wonder if he still has that rivet crusher puncher thing..

.

 

[mdbeck1]

ah.. you made me think way back..
my dad would have to replace sickel blades on his combine headers.. i wonder if he still has that rivet crusher puncher thing..

.

I had to do that once in my youth. The guy I worked for didn't have the rivet crusher. We removed the sickel blade, drilled/punched the rivets out, and then installed the new rivets using a hammer and anvil. Re-installed and it worked like a charm.

 

[jetmech09]

A&P mech here with some structures experience, would be glad to give you info if needed. There are also NAS rivets, usually see them for reduced head countersunk. The main advantage of a hi-lok over a rivet is that the hi-lok provides more tension strength, and is less of a permanent fastener.
To install, you have a threaded stud, and a collar. The collar has a hex on it when new. To install, simply hold the stud in place with the allen key (always on the shop end) and screw down the collar until the hex portion breaks off. To remove, they make special removal sockets that have threads that dig into the collar while you spin it off while holding the stud with an allen key. If it is a steel collar, it is usually more useful to use hi-lok pliers.

 

[Flathead Red]

I have recently become interested in rivetingand went digging through my tool box. I had aquired numerous air tools a few years back but only used a few of them. I found a Chicago Pneumatic CP-4444. I'm pretty sure that is a rivet gun. I have no spring or rivet sets but I think I have a good start!

Red

 

[Flathead Red]

Any updates?

Red

 

[RivennHewn]

I was looking for Beehive style springs also.

http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=113B

 

[JustBryan]

Please don't stop now...the info junkie in me is wanting more.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I finally caught up with this thread and subscribed.

I ave watched a few videos and small, hand held, pneumatic squeezer seem to be the way to go. Obviously they only work in situation where you can get the "C section" over the seem that you are trying to bond.

How about recommending a minimum tool set and selection of rivet sizes for tse who are just starting out.

 

[RivennHewn]

More please!!!!!!!!

 

[machine_punk]

I was just thinking about this thread...I need to get back on it. Part of the issue is that I don't want to put 'misinformation' out there. Part of it is that life gets in the way of hobbies. Part of it is that I have to quickly build a rivet project as a Christmas gift. Part of it is an issue at work which I am dealing with.

I haven't forgotten! I'll get back on this soon.

Thanks for taking the time to post!

Kev.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I hear ya Machine Punk. It's hard to keep up with everything you want to do when life keeps interrupting..
Just take pictures as your doing your project and post it later.
I'm accumulating projects but been too busy to keep up as well. Specially now with the holidays upon us.

 

[Flathead Johnny]

nice thread!

 

[Bronson]

I learned to rivet assembling OH-58 Kiowa Warriors.
Not a lot of room for mistakes!

 

[y5e06]

A beginner's buyers guide would be nice.
I've been wanting to do solid rivets for a while now. this thread got me re-energized. I found a basic 5-set of .401 rivet sets on ebay and am planning on buying a 3x used rivet air hammer to get started. Mostly interested in basic brass and aluminum solid rivets for non-critical components and speed part decoration type items.
some of the readings I've come across suggest a 4x is a bit much, but in an above post a 4x is suggested. Also, which brands of air hammers to stay away from or focus on? perhaps use of scrap chunks for bucking bars etc as opposed to buying one? I was thinking of just using a claw hammer face or chunk of 1" steel scrap (polished) for budget bucking.

 

[kams1973]

Learning to rivet takes a little practice and attention to detail. I learned to rivet at NATTC Millington, TN on a shop bench. Everything was wide open and easily accessable. Working on just about any type of aircraft is just the opposite.

As far a bucking bars go y5e06, the surface should be smooth and flat. The heft of the bar is dependent upon the size of rivet and accessability.

 

[Red_Barn]

Great thread! I subscribed.

 

[ImportTuner]

Lots of great info .. subscribed

 

[jvitez]

Excellent thread! I've done very little metalworking but it's always cool when I have the opportunity. Actually, I just bought a new Pop rivet gun. Used it to attach the license plate to the aluminum tunnel of my snowmobile.

Solid rivets remind me of grade 8 shops class when we did a year of metal working. It was a ton of fun! I remember using a tool to slide over the placed rivet, hit it with a hammer, then flip the tool around and create a oval head that would deform the shank and lock the metal pieces together. I can't remember the name of the tool, a dolly perhaps?

 

[Toolhorder]

Rivnuts: A specific style of blind rivet, which leaves a threaded hole when set. This gives you a reusable, captive 'nut' in the metal sheet. I don't have any experience with these, but they seem to use a special setting device, which has a threaded rod to hold the rivet.

Honda uses these on a couple SUV models like the CRV and Pilot when you install accessory side running boards. On both sides under the rocker area there is just a hole drilled into the body and you install these rivets with a special tool so you have a threaded hole to accept the bolt. It's cool but a PITA to install. You basically insert the rivet in the tool and you insert the rivet and tool attached to the rivet into the hole. You turn a screw in the middle of the tool and hold the side of the tool. It basically expands the rivet so I can't be removed when you take the center threaded part out when you remove the tool.
They seem to work ok..

 

[racingtadpole]

Rivnuts: A specific style of blind rivet, which leaves a threaded hole when set. This gives you a reusable, captive 'nut' in the metal sheet. I don't have any experience with these, but they seem to use a special setting device, which has a threaded rod to hold the rivet.

Honda uses these on a couple SUV models like the CRV and Pilot when you install accessory side running boards. On both sides under the rocker area there is just a hole drilled into the body and you install these rivets with a special tool so you have a threaded hole to accept the bolt. It's cool but a PITA to install. You basically insert the rivet in the tool and you insert the rivet and tool attached to the rivet into the hole. You turn a screw in the middle of the tool and hold the side of the tool. It basically expands the rivet so I can't be removed when you take the center threaded part out when you remove the tool.
They seem to work ok..

They are good until you either strip the thread and wind up with a bolt stuck in it or the nut breaks free from the parent and starts rotating in the parent.
If you think they are PITA to install try getting one out.

 

[ckblum]

I'm a structures tech (AME-S). I drive and drill rivets every day. Never thought of it as art haha, most guys not building helicopter junk usually are building a side locker or some sort of tooling for themselves or a house project.

If you want a basic sheet metal kit check out the Yard Store. Most of the guys here buy their tools from them. I find most of the same stuff cheaper there than Brown Tool or anywhere else.

Pneumatic squeezers are nice but not really necessary but if it's in your budget then go for it. I use mostly my 4X, 3X or a hand squeezer (5/32 max by hand squeeze). My 3X is an ACAT, I think I paid $160 for it, the 4X is a General something TP86? I don't even know, it shoots rivets, I wouldn't get too fancy of a gun especially if it's just a hobby. I use a Pan American 1/4 drill for most of my drilling. It's pretty much a Soiux copy but half price.

Structures guys are cheap, I'd say we have less Snap On tools combined than the average member here has.

 

[rottlee68]

Thanks for the information on where to go and tools needed.

 

[ckblum]

If you wanna get good at riveting, make up some plate projects, .020, .032, .050, .125, just a variety of thicknesses. Cut a 6x6 plate and rivet two different ones together, change it up and get used to selecting rivet lengths and shooting on thin stuff without making it look like a buttoned up fat guy.

Concentrate of being consistent on the gun. I do full trigger bursts, none of that feathering start stuff, that's why you put a regulator on the gun. Way faster and more consistent rivets that way.

As for bars, if you are driving lots I would suggest a tungsten bar. For work or heavy home use it helps a lot in tight spots and saves your hands from VWF. A tomahawk bar, a basic block with an angle on one face are useful too. Those 2 bars should be able to do 95% of the riveting you need.

 

[bczygan]

I need and want to learn more about riveting. And need to assemble the tools and materials.
The belly pan on this has come loose and needs repair:

At work, I do riveting on these (Hiperlights):

 

[MFolks]

Rivets have been used for many years in aircraft & missile assembly. For removable access panels, nutplates are used. Hi-loks are similar to screws, but usually the nut and a means to prevent the Hi-lok from turning are on the same side. Some Hi-loks are removable, others will need a special tool to grab the remanents of the locking device.

 

[MFolks]

I used to do riveting on MD-11 fuselage parts, when General Dynamics/Convair did the assembly of sections of the airliner in San Diego Ca. The parts were assembled & then barged to Long Beach Ca. for final assembly. I also did assembly work on the USAF AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile, requiring use of solid rivets; countersunk, and button head types. Hi-Loks were used in many places of the missile.

When "Bucking" rivets, you get a certain "Feel" for when the tail, or end has been flared, or swelled, locking the river in place.

 

[Antique Engine]

I've been an A&P for 19 years now. Back in the 90s, I probably drove literally a ton of rivets working at The Texas Airplane Factory in Fort Worth Texas. Mainly 470AD. The best hint I can give anyone is to drive the damn thing. Don't tentatively tap-tap at it. Every hit of the rivet gun hardens the rivet. If you mess around and don't get serious, you work harden the thing and it just makes it more difficult. Get the gun down on the head solidly, bucking bar up behind it, and let it rip. It doesn't take too long till you get the feel to be able to drive it fully in one quick burst. Most rivets can be driven in roughly a one second burst.

If you can't get behind it to see how you're doing on forming the shop head, stick your finger up there and push hard. The shop head will make an impression in your fingertip that you can look at to judge if you've shot it straight or not. Quicker than trying to get a mirror up in there usually.

 

[amaes]

Great Read!

I have boxes on top of box of aircraft rivets in every size possible and was wondering how to use them. A aircraft repair shop went out of business and auctioned everything off. There was a vise I wan't and I bought 10s of thousands of them in the lot. Same with specialty bolts/screws.

 

[Richard D]

When will there be more on this?

 

[wornoutoldman]

Subscribed

 

[aconstruction]

I'm a machinist by trade and I moonlight and sell a tool that will make copper rivets from standard copper wire. The rivets can be used for sheet metal or leather work. My website is heromount.com and I also sell the tool on ebay and etsy. Thanks.

 

[tmkr81]

I am a Toolmaker by trade but recently my company has gotten into assembling the various aerospace brackets we machine. These assemblies require us to install nut plates/rivets. The problem I'm having is, our customer Specks the rivet part# we are allowed to use and in almost all cases the rivet is longer than the recommended 1.5 x Ø stick out. Its usually around 2 x Ø stick out and this causes the rivet to bend over and unfortunately we cant just order a shorter rivet, we have to use the customer supplied part #.

We are currently using a pneumatic squeezer type of gun but I didn't know if a rivet gun & bucking bar or any other type of forming method would be better. So if anyone has any tips or tricks for dealing with this longer rivet situation it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I am a Toolmaker by trade but recently my company has gotten into assembling the various aerospace brackets we machine. These assemblies require us to install nut plates/rivets. The problem I'm having is, our customer Specks the rivet part# we are allowed to use and in almost all cases the rivet is longer than the recommended 1.5 x Ø stick out. Its usually around 2 x Ø stick out and this causes the rivet to bend over and unfortunately we cant just order a shorter rivet, we have to use the customer supplied part #.

We are currently using a pneumatic squeezer type of gun but I didn't know if a rivet gun & bucking bar or any other type of forming method would be better. So if anyone has any tips or tricks for dealing with this longer rivet situation it would be greatly appreciated.

Cut them with a rivet trimmer.

 

[tmkr81]

I could try the rivet trimmer. I have been turning the rivets down on the lathe but that is somewhat time consuming when I'm doing 50-150 at a time. There are two rivets I'm using both are 3/32 Ø, one is Monel and the other is 347 Stainless Steel. I am also required to hold a min. head thickness and a min. head Ø on the formed end. Do you think the rivet trimmer would work on the harder material rivets?

 

[NASTYZEN]

I could try the rivet trimmer. I have been turning the rivets down on the lathe but that is somewhat time consuming when I'm doing 50-150 at a time. There are two rivets I'm using both are 3/32 Ø, one is Monel and the other is 347 Stainless Steel. I am also required to hold a min. head thickness and a min. head Ø on the formed end. Do you think the rivet trimmer would work on the harder material rivets?

Guess it all depends on your rivet trimmer. I have only trimmed Alu. rivets so far.
I guess trimming would be much productive than turning them down on the lathe.
If you cut so many of them, it would be worth your while to have a dedicated trimmer for your harder rivets.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Never heard of a "rivet trimmer". What does it look like ?

 

[NASTYZEN]

Never heard of a "rivet trimmer". What does it look like ?

Here's a link to one.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/rivcutters.php

 

[Kevin54]

I am a Toolmaker by trade but recently my company has gotten into assembling the various aerospace brackets we machine. These assemblies require us to install nut plates/rivets. The problem I'm having is, our customer Specks the rivet part# we are allowed to use and in almost all cases the rivet is longer than the recommended 1.5 x Ø stick out. Its usually around 2 x Ø stick out and this causes the rivet to bend over and unfortunately we cant just order a shorter rivet, we have to use the customer supplied part #.

We are currently using a pneumatic squeezer type of gun but I didn't know if a rivet gun & bucking bar or any other type of forming method would be better. So if anyone has any tips or tricks for dealing with this longer rivet situation it would be greatly appreciated.

Retired Toolmaker here also in the aircraft industry. I don't have a copy of the S5 Mil Specification on rivets, but the callout you have on your assembly drawing for the rivets, you are allowed to go down one, or up one in rivet length.

You also have to be careful, because when it comes to aircraft, you HAVE to follow the S5 Mil Specifications. Not only are your allowed to go up or down in length, it also specifies what the diameter is after riveting a part, along with the height of the rivet on the crushed side. If it were just riveting a part for home use, that's one thing, but when it gets into aircraft, then you have a set of Specifications that you HAVE to follow. If you are riveting a tubular rivet, you are allowed three cracks in the rivet as long as the cracks DO NOT go into the barrel of the rivet.

I had a book on all of the specs for riveting, but when I retired, I gave my buddy my notebook. I'll e-mail one of my ex coworkers and see if I can get him to send me a copy.

 

[MP&C]

I am a Toolmaker by trade but recently my company has gotten into assembling the various aerospace brackets we machine. These assemblies require us to install nut plates/rivets. The problem I'm having is, our customer Specks the rivet part# we are allowed to use and in almost all cases the rivet is longer than the recommended 1.5 x Ø stick out. Its usually around 2 x Ø stick out and this causes the rivet to bend over and unfortunately we cant just order a shorter rivet, we have to use the customer supplied part #.

Perhaps some feedback to the customer would provide the correct part on the next order....