Solutions for a twisted 6x6 post?

[MushCreek]

I have a very twisted 6x6 post inside my barn that holds up a major carrier beam for the loft. It hasn't been a problem yet, but now I want to frame a wall that that post is a part of. The wall will be framed with 2x6's, but due to the twist, the 6x6 is significantly wider. It's twisted about an inch.

What to do? I can't remove it without temporarily supporting that beam. If I do replace it, will a triple or quad 2x6 work in it's place? I don't want to use another 6x6, as all of them have twisted. I could rework it with my electric hand plane, but it's 12' tall, and I'd have to do both sides, as I'll eventually finish both sides of the wall. That would be a LOT of planing. The carrier beam is a triple 2x10. There's not a lot of weight in that area right now, but it's not self-supporting, even unloaded.

I suppose I could frame the wall with 2x8's, although that would be a waste of money and space. Thoughts?

 

[Mr onetwo]

get a power plane and shave down what you have too

 

[Kaizen]

Just replace it. Not worth the aggravation. Triple 2x screwed together should do it. Or just the same thing but from a better supplier. They have lvl type 2x now that will never move


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[BD1]

Support both sides ,cutoff the existing above ground, add a pipe column with drilled plates, and set on top of existing. lag screw and shim as required. The column will take up less room.

 

[Ign]

^^^^^yeah, I'd say the solution to wood is always steel

What's, say, 3.5" pipe (4" OD) Sch40 good for in compression vs a 6x6?

 

[larry_g]

Use a chainsaw or a circular saw, not a planer. It seems to me that your going to a lot of work to get a small bow out of a wall, in a barn, that will likely be covered with shelving and never be seen again. Do you think that the cows in the barn will complain?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[GMCGarage]

^^^^^yeah, I'd say the solution to wood is always steel

What's, say, 3.5" pipe (4" OD) Sch40 good for in compression vs a 6x6?

You are around 8700lbs for the steel column, and 6x6 around 11,000 lbs

 

[Bretny]

If you do replace it with wood it may be a good idea to but a few more 2x6 than you need and let them sit for a few weeks...then use the best ones and return the rest.

 

[rlitman]

You are around 8700lbs for the steel column, and 6x6 around 11,000 lbs

The 4" x 10' lally column in the chart here:
https://www.lally-column.com/4-inch-lally-columns
lists the maximum compressive load as 21,400 lbs. Of course, a schedule 40 steel pipe isn't going to hold as much as a filled column.

As for the 6x6, there are LVM and paralam columns that would never twist, and that would be stronger than the original 6x6. Cutting back the 6x6 will weaken it, though probably not that much. However, if the wall ends up under the beam, then I think it is a moot point.

 

[larry_g]

However, if the wall ends up under the beam, then I think it is a moot point.

Good point. If the wall is built can one just remove the 6x6 and call it a bearing wall?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rlitman]

Good point. If the wall is built can one just remove the 6x6 and call it a bearing wall?

lg
no neat sig line

Perhaps, so long as the beam doesn't have a point load on it situated directly above the column that we're not considering. But in any case, even if we we can call it a bearing wall, I'd still leave as much of the column in place as possible and build around it, if only because it makes things easier if/when you want to remove that wall.

 

[MushCreek]

I'm thinking three (or 4) 2x6's, glued and screwed together in an assembly. Chances of them all bowing the same direction are pretty low. The wall will be sheathed with OSB on the shop side, so that will also add stability. The other side is going to be a finished great room for entertaining and as a guest house of sorts for overnight guests. A 1" bulge would be pretty hard to work around. The shop side will also be visible, although it will be in a stairwell.

The way the loft is built, the wall will support one end of the loft, but not the carrier beam, which is below where the top plate of the wall will be. The loft floor joists rest on top of that beam, so it has to be supported.

The 6x6 is at the end of the carrier beam. I'll make up my new laminated post, and wedge it under the carrier beam inside of the 6x6. I can then remove the 6x6. The 6x6 sits on a raised metal base to keep it off of the concrete floor. Then, I'll use the same 6x6 as a temporary support even further inboard, so I can move the new laminated post out to the end of the beam and permanently install it. Clear as mud?

I think a 12' Lally column would be pretty expensive, and not necessary. I'd still have to install a stud there to fasten the wall materials to.

I guess I shouldn't refer to it as a 'barn'. It looks like a barn, but is actually 2/3's workshop, with the remaining third going to be a nice-but-rustic room with T&G paneling.

I'm done using 6x6's for posts, though. I have one in my basement that's bowed at least an inch, and it is a major support for the main floor. It's going to be replaced with steel one of these days. The fact that it's bowed has to impact its load carrying capacity, I would think.

 

[Samh]

Perhaps, so long as the beam doesn't have a point load on it situated directly above the column that we're not considering.

If that is the case, you could just stack 2x6's under that point as well

 

[Bretny]

Pad the whole wall out is another option. I had to do this with an old house and un even real wood 2x4 walls. A sheet of panneling ripped into 2in strips really helped.

 

[MushCreek]

Pad the whole wall out is another option. I had to do this with an old house and un even real wood 2x4 walls. A sheet of panneling ripped into 2in strips really helped.

There is no wall yet, so I could frame it with 2x8's, which would eliminate the twisted 6x6 from the equation. In theory, I'd lose an inch from the width of my stairs; probably not the end of the world. It would cost more in materials, but speed the job up a bit.

 

[CTyankee]

When you make up your post, take each member...sight them..and mark the direction of the bowing and crowning on each piece. When you assemble them, alternate the bowing and crowning when mating them together. You may find you'll need a clamp to pull the opposing crowns into the same plane. You should end up with a nice straight column.

 

[rlitman]

When you make up your post, take each member...sight them..and mark the direction of the bowing and crowning on each piece. When you assemble them, alternate the bowing and crowning when mating them together. You may find you'll need a clamp to pull the opposing crowns into the same plane. You should end up with a nice straight column.

What he's saying is don't ))).
You want ()(.

 

[ItsNemo]

Another vote for a steel support post....no twisting risk at all.

 

[MushCreek]

Yeah, I've glued up laminates before, so I know what to look for.

 

[BD1]

I think a 12' Lally column would be pretty expensive, and not necessary. I'd still have to install a stud there to fasten the wall materials to.

Why ?? Depends where your wall stud centers work out. You're probably talking
another $20.00.
As for the pipe, I used 4'' schedule 40 and filled with concrete, that was 35 years ago.

 

[MushCreek]

Have you priced 4" pipe lately?

 

[strutaeng]

Steel or engineered lumber would be a good solution if you want to avoid twisting.

The larger the size of the wood member the more likely it is to cup, check, split, etc.

I just ordered 3 pieces of PSL (Parallel Strand Lumber) 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 x10' for around $150. I had originally planned on using 5 1/4" wide columns and a 2 beams, but this engineered lumber is very expensive. The 2 beams 5 1/4 x 16 x 20' were over $1,500 just the beams. So I reduced the width of the beam and columns and save some money (3 1/2" wide was overkill anyway.)

(2) 3 1/2 x16x20' beams were around $780

PSL are similar to osb/plywood in that they are dimension ally stable.

Another option as mentioned is to use nice, straight 2x and built up a post.

 

[Homerr]

Just replace it. Not worth the aggravation. Triple 2x screwed together should do it. Or just the same thing but from a better supplier. They have lvl type 2x now that will never move


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This is terrible advice as far as (3)2x6.

In Doug-Fir at 12' length:

(3)2x6 DF#1 supports 6,500 lbs. (laminated per NDS 15.3.3.1)
(3)2x6 DF#2 supports 6,000 lbs. (laminated per NDS 15.3.3.1)
(3)2x6 DF Stud grade supports 5,000 lbs. (laminated per NDS 15.3.3.1)

(1)6x6 DF#1 supports 16,000 lbs.

In your area columns may be different species, this is the the NW. Replace with a like column or better - not worse! A 6x6, 5.5"x6" GLB, or 5.25"x5.25" PSL would all be good choices in wood.

Also, note that if you replace this 6x6 with steel that the bearing surface at the top and bottom should also be equal in size or larger. I.E. a bearing plate, 5.5"x5.5" or larger, will be needed so that the carrier beam above isn't crushing on to the top of the column and bearing at the bottom on wood or concrete is also equal or better.

Getting a lumber yard to do a calc for you could give you give you an actual solution if you can adequately show them a ALL the load on the carrier beam and the type of use in a simple drawing with dimensions and better with photos too.

 

[MushCreek]

I think it's all overkill anyway. The post is supporting about 60 sq ft if you figure half the spans in each direction. It's used for light storage. Even at 50 lbs./sq/ft, you're only talking 3000 lbs. That's not taking into account that the open stairwell is taking up about 1/3 of that part of the loft.

Anyhow, the post is twisted, but straight. Leaving it in place is the simple, safe answer. I'll just frame the wall with 2x8's and move on with life. The 2x8's will pad out the wall enough to clear the post. It will cost me about $50 more to frame the wall with 2x8's. Labor is about the same either way. I'm going to build a storage closet under the stairs, and I can use pieces of 2x8 between the studs to make very handy shelves for storing stuff, so the space isn't even lost.

 

[johnnyradiant]

Probably won't work in this case but the other option for a twist is to box it out with some dressed 1X to make it look bigger. I just did that a couple weeks ago on four posts. It gave them some visual mass and allowed them to be straightened and lined up better.

 

[Seagoon]

Just cut a slot in the sheetrock where the column sticks out, then get a 4by1 the height of the room, distress it and stick it to the wall. looks like a rustic beam!

 

[MushCreek]

Those are some good ideas, but I want to mount the stair stringer to that wall. On the other side, it would be fine, as I could just put a faux beam over it and call it good. I suppose I could notch it a bit where the stringer crosses it. That will be down near the bottom, where there's a lot less twist.

 

[rlitman]

Those are some good ideas, but I want to mount the stair stringer to that wall. On the other side, it would be fine, as I could just put a faux beam over it and call it good. I suppose I could notch it a bit where the stringer crosses it. That will be down near the bottom, where there's a lot less twist.

Notching it where the stringer crosses is certainly much easier than planing the whole surface. I'd probably do that if it interferes with the stair placement. Keep in mind though that that stringers are supposed to be shimmed one thickness of drywall away from the studs, so that you can sheet the walls much more easily.

 

[larry_g]

If you look in post 13 and 29 in my shop build (below) you will see what I did in the dividing wall. Made it a storage wall and covered different bays on one side or the other to have built in shelving. It might work in your situation.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[MushCreek]

Notching it where the stringer crosses is certainly much easier than planing the whole surface. I'd probably do that if it interferes with the stair placement. Keep in mind though that that stringers are supposed to be shimmed one thickness of drywall away from the studs, so that you can sheet the walls much more easily.

I'm going to use OSB on the wall, before I hang the stair stringers. Then I can use construction screws, going through the osb into the studs for more bracing of the long stair stringers.

 

[28HopUp]

Pad the whole wall out is another option. I had to do this with an old house and un even real wood 2x4 walls. A sheet of panneling ripped into 2in strips really helped.

I had to do something similar when we drywalled our basement that had been done by a previous owner in paneling. He just bowed the paneling around the steel post. I created a flat surface for the drywall by sistering 2x4 to the desired plane to the existing studs, and walked back the measurements as I moved away from the post. It came out great.

You could do the same thing with your proposed 2x6 studs and shimming them out with strips cut from paneling as suggested above.

 

[brownbagg]

just shim the wall

 

[MushCreek]

The issue is that the stair stringer is going to go up and be fastened to a double 2X10 at the end of the loft. The 6x6 is supposed to be flush with that plane. I could pad that out as well, but it starts cutting into the width of my stairwell. Plus, padding out everything would be a lot more work that just using 2X8's.

The stair stringer will be crossing the post down near the bottom, where it's less twisted. I have to move some **** out of the way, and hold a straight edge across it to see how everything lines up. I might not have to take anything off, or maybe just a little where the stringer crosses it. As mentioned above, I can then just box it out a bit like a fake beam, especially on the other side of the wall, in the more decorative great room I'm going to create. In the stairwell, I can just leave the twisted beam exposed- I'm the only one that will see it much. I'll flank it on either side with a 2x6, and fit the OSB up to it rather than trying to sheathe over the uneven surface.