Solvent Recommendations

[scratchedup]

New here...
Bought this-

I need recommendations on what cleaner/solvent to put in tank.

THX

 

[rwhite692]

Gunk hs3

 

[EOC_Jason]

Are you wanting water based or petroleum based?

 

[Graymills - Craig]

New here...
Bought this-

I need recommendations on what cleaner/solvent to put in tank.

THX

What's wrong with the Graymills stuff?

On a serious note, I'd look at any 141F flashpoint mineral spirit-based cleaner. Don't use gasoline, diesel, or the like. If you want, I'll comp you a "solvent saver" to help it last longer for you. PM me or email me at cshields *at* graymills *dot* com.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Are you wanting water based or petroleum based?

It's unheated, so water-based will be iffy.

 

[scratchedup]

Well if your Mr. Greymills...why did I have to weld the legs...they were poorly welded and the brackets were bending/warping...usa made!

Hey I'm new here... so asking for help. Trac. Sup. has stuff for ~$40/5 gal. and HF has stuff for ~$20...

Or are they both a bad idea? Seems I need petroleum based.

BTW notice I cut the legs off and put a plate down there and am going to install 5" casters!

 

[scratchedup]

What's wrong with the Graymills stuff?

On a serious note, I'd look at any 141F flashpoint mineral spirit-based cleaner.

141F flashpoint----please explain.

+ sent you an email.

Thanks

 

[fflintstone]

I’m not trying to hijack but what is a good water based degreaser for a heated parts washer?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Does that have a sumped bottom that we can't see ? The sticker showing the fill line looks to be an inch of the bottom. Is that right ?

 

[scratchedup]

.....The sticker showing the fill line looks to be an inch of the bottom. Is that right ?

I think this is an error.

No sump.

 

[Outlawmws]

Mineral spirits/Paint thinner (AKA Stoddard solvent) Kerosene or diesel all work well.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I ruined one parts washer using that water based stuff, over time it will eat all the paint off the inside and rust every thing under the lid........never again.

this time I 've got the tsc stuff in there i haven't used it to much yet but if you search the forum you'll find it has good reviews...........the flash is over 140 and its practically orderless.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Well if your Mr. Greymills...why did I have to weld the legs...they were poorly welded and the brackets were bending/warping...usa made!

Hey I'm new here... so asking for help. Trac. Sup. has stuff for ~$40/5 gal. and HF has stuff for ~$20...

Or are they both a bad idea? Seems I need petroleum based.

BTW notice I cut the legs off and put a plate down there and am going to install 5" casters!

Honestly, I have no idea why the legs/brackets were bent. Not to sound defensive, but we've sold tens of thousands of similar units, and usually they run for decades.

The PSC1000 that they sell at Harbor Freight has, if I recall, a 141 flashpoint. I'm going off memory here, but I recall that it's reclaimed/recycled mineral spirits. If that's the case, it should work for you, as will the Gunk stuff mentioned above.

If you do the casters, I'd recommend that two of them lock, to stop the unit from rolling unintentionally!

Is the fusible link (the bronze piece that attaches to the cover lift) in good shape? If not, I'll send you one free.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

141F flashpoint----please explain.

+ sent you an email.

Thanks

I didn't see it, so can you resend?

Anyhow, flashpoint is the temperature at which the vapors can ignite. In other words, if you heat something to its flashpoint and have a flame or spark nearby, BOOM. Now, that doesn't guarantee that it *will* ignite, as ventilation, pressure, and such play a factor. But at that temperature, it *can* ignite.

For instance, the FP of gasoline is -45F or so, so at any temperature above that, the fumes can ignite. The flashpoint for diesel, though, is 144F, which is why it is possible, but not recommended, to drop a match into a bucket of diesel. Again, DON'T DO THAT!!!!

This is different from the autoignition temperature, which is the point at which the material will spontaneously combust.

141 flashpoint solvent is becoming defacto standard due to clean air regulations, so it's much easier to find and dispose of.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

I’m not trying to hijack but what is a good water based degreaser for a heated parts washer?

Not to be a smartass, but it depends on what you are cleaning, what you want off, and how you are cleaning it. Water-based is definitely more complicated than solvent, but the world is going there due to the cost of oil and the regulations on VOCs.

For instance, even in our line we have different cleaners for aluminum than for steel (many aqueous cleaners will damage or stain it because of the pH). Burned on carbon takes a different solution than, say, machining oil. And then sonics, immersion, and spray (especially high pressure) all have different formulations.

Typically, you can find good general purpose immersion/scrub cleaners in two buckets - one for aluminum and exotic metals and one for steel and general materials.

If you have details, I'll give you an idea or two.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Mineral spirits/Paint thinner (AKA Stoddard solvent) Kerosene or diesel all work well.

Two things - based on my experience, mineral spirits work better than the other two, regardless where you buy it. Kerosene and diesel can have additives that work against you and seem to degrade faster.

Also, paint thinner isn't always synonymous with mineral spirits. It's a mix of whatever they have available, and it can include MEK, DMF, toluene, benzene, and other nasties. Please please please don't use it for general cleaning!

 

[metaleltr]

We use pure Meguiars Super Degreaser in ours, It is some bad stuff! It ate the paint off the inside of the washer and lower quality paint off of anything we out in it.

Super degreaser
This Stuff is designed to be used in a minimum of 4:1 dilution

 

[scratchedup]

Honestly, I have no idea why the legs/brackets were bent.

If you do the casters, I'd recommend that two of them lock, to stop the unit from rolling unintentionally!

Is the fusible link (the bronze piece that attaches to the cover lift) in good shape? If not, I'll send you one free.

1. I will post a pic of the (IMO) flaw in the leg bracket... (I assume these were/are used in professional shops [Delta Airlines had this one] and it stays in one place forever but in a home shop with limited space I need to move it around. When I picked it from the seller the leg brackets totally bend when we moved it...it was not welded at the ends where the legs attach.)

2. If they lock it will be less exciting.

3. Sure ...I will take free stuff....this is a great piece. Not really sure what the bronze piece is?

Thank you though...will try email again.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

1. I will post a pic of the (IMO) flaw in the leg bracket... (I assume these were/are used in professional shops [Delta Airlines had this one] and it stays in one place forever but in a home shop with limited space I need to move it around. When I picked it from the seller the leg brackets totally bend when we moved it...it was not welded at the ends where the legs attach.)

2. If they lock it will be less exciting.

3. Sure ...I will take free stuff....this is a great piece. Not really sure what the bronze piece is?

Thank you though...will try email again.

Thanks for the photo; I'd love to see it. The leg bracket *should* be a c-shaped piece of formed steel with strengthening flanges, MIG welded to the bottom of the tank.

As to #3, there should be a rectangular piece somewhere between the lid and the lid support/lifter. It's two pieces of bronze fused with a low-temp solder that causes the lid to fall if there's a fire. Unfortunately, I don't have a good picture.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

Does that have a sumped bottom that we can't see ? The sticker showing the fill line looks to be an inch of the bottom. Is that right ?

Definitely not stock, unless they are cleaning with air!

 

[scratchedup]

Definitely not stock, unless they are cleaning with air!

DAL......

 

[scratchedup]

The leg bracket *should* be a c-shaped piece of formed steel with strengthening flanges, MIG welded to the bottom of the tank.

Its an L bracket (2) that runs perpendicular to the tank about 15" long and has, i think, 4 welds on each side but at the ends where it is attaches to the legs there is no weld... so if the legs are stressed laterally the brackets bends...

PIC to follow tomorrow.

THX for the support...at my advanced age it is all about support...price is down the list somewhere.

 

[scratchedup]

defect???

 

[Graymills - Craig]

defect???

Thanks. Let me take a look.

 

[scratchedup]

We use pure Meguiars Super Degreaser in ours, It is some bad stuff! It ate the paint off the inside of the washer and lower quality paint off of anything we out in it.

Super degreaser
This Stuff is designed to be used in a minimum of 4:1 dilution

is this mineral or water based?
thx

 

[scratchedup]

Thanks. Let me take a look.

oops, in my haste I omitted the "arrow".
The leg moves inward toward the center.....the bracket bends.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

is this mineral or water based?
thx

Water. It needs to be diluted.

 

[Graymills - Craig]

defect???

Interesting. The showroom unit and the tanks in process have welds in the corner. I can't tell you if that one is defective or was made before we added the corner weld, but I'm sending a quality note to have the assemblers always double check that.

Thanks for the heads up. DO you need some brushes, etc. for the unit? I can send them out to you free of charge.

 

[Outlawmws]

Two things - based on my experience, mineral spirits work better than the other two, regardless where you buy it. Kerosene and diesel can have additives that work against you and seem to degrade faster.

Also, paint thinner isn't always synonymous with mineral spirits. It's a mix of whatever they have available, and it can include MEK, DMF, toluene, benzene, and other nasties. Please please please don't use it for general cleaning!

The names of these are widely different depending on where you live in the world. but hte quote below has the basics for "Mineral Spirits", Or Paint Thinner as it's commonly known in the US.

Exactly what is in the different formulations does differ, but most paint thinner is not as dramatic as you imply. That being said the Kommunist state of Kalifornia is removing a lot of these from the market anyway, under the CARB anti VOC regs, and other states, and for some materials the Feds are following suit. (I'm now reduced to buying partial cans of "the good stuff" from Yard sales and the like.)

Three types of "Paint thinner/mineral Spirits" (Assuming you can find them) with different flash points:

T1 Low FP= 130–144 °F
T2 Regular FP = 145–174 °F
T3 High FP 175–200 °F

I've used Kerosene for over 30 years in my home built recirculating solvent washer, and never had an issue with it (Including degrading) other than it's hard on my bare skin, So I use heavy rubber gloves when I use it, which is now rarely.

For most cleaning I've switched to undiluted simple green (not suitable for most washer systems) but there can be issues cleaning aluminum with it.

I've also started using an old Maytag JetClean dishwasher for cleaning parts as it has the strongest jets and hottest water of any dishwasher I've seen. I'll scrape the heavy stuff off and let the washer do the rest.

From Wikipeadia:

White spirit [CAS 64475-85-0][1][2][3], also known as mineral spirits or Stoddard solvent [CAS 8052-41-3][4][5], is a paraffin-derived clear, transparent liquid which is a common organic solvent used in painting and decorating. In 1924, Atlanta dry cleaner W. J. Stoddard worked with Lloyd E. Jackson of the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research to develop a less volatile dry cleaning solvent as an alternative to the petroleum solvents in use. Dry cleaners began using the result of their work in 1928 and it soon became the predominant dry cleaning solvent in the United States, until the late 1950s.

It is a mixture of aliphatic and alicyclic C7 to C12 hydrocarbons with a maximum content of 25% of C7 to C12 aromatic hydrocarbons. A typical composition for mineral spirits is > 65% C10 or higher hydrocarbons[6], aliphatic solvent hexane, and a maximum benzene content of 0.1% by volume, a kauri-butanol value of 29, an initial boiling point of 65 °C (149 °F), a dry point of approximately 69 °C (156 °F), and a density of 0.7 g/ml.

Stoddard solvent is a specific mixture of hydrocarbons, typically > 65% C10 or higher hydrocarbons [7].

White spirit is used as an extraction solvent, as a cleaning solvent, as a degreasing solvent and as a solvent in aerosols, paints, wood preservatives, lacquers, varnishes, and asphalt products. In western Europe about 60% of the total white spirit consumption is used in paints, lacquers and varnishes. White spirit is the most widely used solvent in the paint industry. In households, white spirit is commonly used to clean paint brushes after use

 

[Graymills - Craig]

The names of these are widely different depending on where you live in the world. but hte quote below has the basics for "Mineral Spirits", Or Paint Thinner as it's commonly known in the US.

Exactly what is in the different formulations does differ, but most paint thinner is not as dramatic as you imply. That being said the Kommunist state of Kalifornia is removing a lot of these from the market anyway, under the CARB anti VOC regs, and other states, and for some materials the Feds are following suit. (I'm now reduced to buying partial cans of "the good stuff" from Yard sales and the like.)

Three types of "Paint thinner/mineral Spirits" (Assuming you can find them) with different flash points:

T1 Low FP= 130–144 °F
T2 Regular FP = 145–174 °F
T3 High FP 175–200 °F

I've used Kerosene for over 30 years in my home built recirculating solvent washer, and never had an issue with it (Including degrading) other than it's hard on my bare skin, So I use heavy rubber gloves when I use it, which is now rarely.

(snip)

From Wikipeadia:

Two things. First, I probably wasn't clear what I meant by "degrading." What I'm talking about is the number of chemical bonds available. Basically, solvent cleans by bonding with the muck; that's why as time goes by, solvent seems less effective. Stoddard solvent (mineral spirits) has more bonds available, which means that a gallon can clean longer than a gallon of kerosene. You'll get more life out of it. Hope that makes sense. And I hope I explained what my chemist partners told me properly!

The other thing is that I have to disagree with your characterization of paint thinner. I've seen enough "behind the curtains" stuff while working with blenders to know that it can - and usually does - contain all sorts of nasties. That's why it's cheaper - they add excess chemicals they have lying around to the mix. If, based on spot prices, MEK is cheaper than mineral spirits, you'd better believe there will be MEK in that batch. This is first-hand knowledge for me.

Wikipedia isn't wrong. Stoddard *is* the most common solvent in paint. But that doesn't mean that paint thinner, which is not a defined term, doesn't have other stuff in it. It typically does. In small doses (i.e., cleaning brushes, etc.), it's probably not a deal breaker. But I'd *really* recommend not subjecting yourself to it in a cleaner. Too much fumes and too much possibility of skin absorption.

I'm not trying to drum up business; as many people here know, if they get anything from me, it's free. I'm here because I'm a gearhead who loves tinkering in the garage, not to sell washers. But, having been in this business quite some time, I can't not respond and give people my $0.02 on the subject. I'm fairly passionate about safety.

Anyhow, time to go hang my new garage door opener! Whooo hooo!

 

[metaleltr]

is this mineral or water based?
thx

It is water based and can be diluted, but we use it straight from the jug, once again it will remove paint from some parts, and may remove the paint from the parts washer, It did from ours.

 

[Falcon67]

I used 10 gallons of mineral spirits and a quart of ATF in my tank before the move. In the new shop,I think I'll use the PSC1000. The new shop has more visitors and I'll need to keep fumes under control.

One "trick" I use on my 20 gallon HF unit is to place a magnet out of a discarded hard drive on the lid. Those are some really stout magnets and will hold the lid down rather firmly.

 

[scratchedup]

THX
Courtesy of Graymills...very nice!

 

[38Chevy454]

On several other posts on this same topic, the general consensus seems to be for home use in non-heated washer the mineral spirits (or equivalent) is a good all around choice. It is also one of the lower cost options and availability is as close as your local hardware/paint store. Water based cleaners just do not seem to work as well unheated.

 

[White 99]

Mineral spirits/Paint thinner (AKA Stoddard solvent) Kerosene or diesel all work well.

Any idea why kerosene is OK but Jet A is not?

 

[Outlawmws]

Any idea why kerosene is OK but Jet A is not?

I got that from another source, but based on published flashpoints only, I'd tend to agree; "why he difference", however I would also not be surprised if Jet A leaned to the low end of the very wide flashpoint spectrum and that over the counter Kerosene was at the higher end. (Both range from 100 deg to 150)

The other factor is that all jet fuels have other additives in them that ordinary Kerosene does not, so I still would lean away from Jet A.

 

[alan camby]

One thing that is a big turn off to parts washers for me, and i assume most home shops. What do you do with the solvent after it becomes dirty and the chemicals wear out. In other words, how do i dispose of the solvent. No, I am not a tree huger, but I hate to dump it on the weeds in the driveway and I am sure the auto parts stores don't want it like they do used oil. Sure it is not right, but when I have a dirty part i just take it in the back yard and pressure wash it. I do feel a little bad that the grease and grime is going on the ground.

 

[scratchedup]

..... the general consensus seems to be for home use in non-heated washer the mineral spirits (or equivalent) is a good all around choice. It is also one of the lower cost options and availability is as close as your local hardware/paint store.......

THX this is what I plan on doing. BTW luv the broken handle signature. I can relate.

 

[scratchedup]

One thing that is a big turn off to parts washers for me, and i assume most home shops. What do you do with the solvent after it becomes dirty and the chemicals wear out. In other words, how do i dispose of the solvent. No, I am not a tree huger, but I hate to dump it on the weeds in the driveway and I am sure the auto parts stores don't want it like they do used oil. Sure it is not right, but when I have a dirty part i just take it in the back yard and pressure wash it. I do feel a little bad that the grease and grime is going on the ground.

I have been able to take my used gunky fluid to auto oil change shops and they let me dump it in their "holding tanks" no charge.

 

[J Persons]

One thing that is a big turn off to parts washers for me, and i assume most home shops. What do you do with the solvent after it becomes dirty and the chemicals wear out. In other words, how do i dispose of the solvent. No, I am not a tree huger, but I hate to dump it on the weeds in the driveway and I am sure the auto parts stores don't want it like they do used oil. Sure it is not right, but when I have a dirty part i just take it in the back yard and pressure wash it. I do feel a little bad that the grease and grime is going on the ground.

When I was in California, the county had a hazmat turn in day once a month. Just bring your old solvents, paints, old motor oil etc and they took them for free. I would turn in my solvent in 5 gallon steel cans, they would empty the cans and give me the cans back. There was no charge for this service. Check with your local transfer station or county refuse collection service to see what is available in your area.