Some PB Swiss Goodness
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blue dog
Banned
tradesmanschoice
Well-known member
Does anyone else find the PB flat blade screwdrivers difficult to use? The tips are thinner than the average screwdriver and I found they keep slipping out of the screw head which was quite annoying! No problems with the PH/PZ of course. Oh and i never had a problem with the smell of the SwissGrip handles either 
blue dog
Banned
Does anyone else find the PB flat blade screwdrivers difficult to use? The tips are thinner than the average screwdriver and I found they keep slipping out of the screw head which was quite annoying! No problems with the PH/PZ of course. Oh and i never had a problem with the smell of the SwissGrip handles either
I have 1 - 8 sizes of the slotted drivers, and can seem to find the driver that fits well with no problem. As far as the smell, do not even notice it. Some of the handles could be a size or 2 bigger, but not enough to make me unhappy or feel uncomfortable with them.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
BLOODFIRE!
Talk about a haul, and all for under $105? That's a steal.
[Insert Jealousy Here
]Does anyone else find the PB flat blade screwdrivers difficult to use? The tips are thinner than the average screwdriver and I found they keep slipping out of the screw head which was quite annoying! No problems with the PH/PZ of course. Oh and i never had a problem with the smell of the SwissGrip handles either
I know you! I keep buying stuff off you on eBay..
Never had a problem with PB, find them great. Maybe it's because the tips are hollow-ground (parallel) and not tapered?
tradesmanschoice
Well-known member
BLOODFIRE!
Talk about a haul, and all for under $105? That's a steal.
[Insert Jealousy Here
I know you! I keep buying stuff off you on eBay..
Never had a problem with PB, find them great. Maybe it's because the tips are hollow-ground (parallel) and not tapered?
Yes I'm also on eBay, it's a small world isn't it?
You're right, the parallel tips were probably the cause. I guess I needed to get a screwdriver a couple of sizes bigger for a better fit, but unfortunately I only had a set of 6 that excluded the biggies.Does anyone else find the PB flat blade screwdrivers difficult to use? The tips are thinner than the average screwdriver and I found they keep slipping out of the screw head which was quite annoying! No problems with the PH/PZ of course. Oh and i never had a problem with the smell of the SwissGrip handles either
Its the hollow ground, you have to get used to the tip being thinner than it looks and use a bigger size. If the tip doesn't fit the fastener, its not the screwdrivers fault, just pick the one that fits.
Bolster
Well-known member
Yep. That's one of the main reasons I've been buying PB Swiss recently... parallel ground tips.
But you DO need larger screwdrivers compared to the wedge tip.OH, welcome to the forum Tradesman!
blue dog
Banned
Does anyone else find the PB flat blade screwdrivers difficult to use? The tips are thinner than the average screwdriver and I found they keep slipping out of the screw head which was quite annoying! No problems with the PH/PZ of course. Oh and i never had a problem with the smell of the SwissGrip handles either
Seems to me that 4,5,6,7 sizes are the ones that will be used the most.
102/4 102/5 102/6 102/7. the 102 series has the bolster at the handle.
took me a while to get the pb swiss product numbers understood in my head.
The 100 series are the same without the bolster.
As far as the 102/8 goes, the tip is very wide and i have no idea what i will use it for. It would make a good shank.
Lastly, is there a difference between a standard #1 #2 #3 tip and ph1, ph2, ph3?
Bolster
Well-known member
I'd be surprised if they're different.
LOL. Me too.
One problem with the sales is that those prices are now my established values for these things. I probably couldn't force myself to pay more than 20 bucks for a set of PB Swiss screwdrivers at this point.
Looking at that assortment gives me a thought. (uh oh). A really perverse way to store tools in some sort of box would be to sort them by the fitting they deal with rather than by their type or handles or whatever. You could take a parts bin holding gizmo, and fill it with plastic bins each saying something like '7/16" hex' or 'PH2'. The first bin would be filled with 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" drive sockets of all types with that size, nutdrivers, combination wrenches of that size, etc....the second bin would have PH2 bits and any PH2 screwdrivers that you have. Another bin might have all drive tools of a given size, extensions, ratchets, speed handle, spinners. Take the bin (or a small number of the bins) to the work.
It would break you of the habit of needing sets and cut down on the unneeded tools. Heck, if your only hobby is old Chevrolets or Datsun 510's, you'd hardly need any of these bins.
Oh man, I need my coffee this morning.
Theloniousmonk
Well-known member
I had all the screwdrivers I need *** a few sales ago, hasn't even slowed me down much. New screwdrivers are tools I LIKE to try, and see how I like this brand vs that brand etc.
*** I didn't need a super long shaft set, but wanted them enough that the $10 pair at HF started looking appealing, now for about $30 I have a full set of PB Swiss extra long. They may never get used, but they will be there to look at.
*** I didn't need a super long shaft set, but wanted them enough that the $10 pair at HF started looking appealing, now for about $30 I have a full set of PB Swiss extra long. They may never get used, but they will be there to look at.
Vinko
Well-known member
Good point. Such is Buying & Selling on the Internet, huh?
I can't imagine that the USA dealer Count On Tools, or the others, are too happy with some of the margins that first Small Parts got (and then had to desist with) and now Amazon direct?
I wonder what kind of margins retailers are getting now. The old days of 50% mark up have got to be over on a lot of stuff, unless the maker or distributor really controls it.
I know that one company that does is the German company, Miele, who makes really good vacuums, washing machines, etc. I've never found a screaming deal on-line for this stuff.
In a way though, if the internet seller is just drop shipping and not warehousing or stocking, then it's good money if you can get get a 50% margin, but hell, no overhead, running a site from your kitchen table, why should you?
Problem is it squeezes everyone else making things. Something's got to give at some point. I wonder if the whole sell cheap thing has a noticeable affect on quality manufacturing. Even if people want it, they don't want to pay for it.
Ed_EOD
Well-known member
It seems like Amazon doesn't have a direct source. A lot of the nost popular PB Swiss stuff they don't have in stock or is near full price. I bet they got a huge supply of overstock through someone that closed and they are selling that. I doubt they could make any money if they were selling screwdrivers from the factory at 80% off. Most of the stuff they sell for rediculous cheap prices is stuff that is in pretty low demand so they just want to get rid of it.
It's interesting how some industries are highly controlled price-wise (try to buy a bicycle online or find a deal on Stickley) and others aren't.
One answer to the declining margins conundrum, which is doubly felt by electronics manufacturers, is direct sales. As an example, let's say that Snap-on supplied overnight delivery and really excellent mail-in return service...and charged 1/2 as much for their products as a dealer does. Boxes could be dealt with by having a dozen or so retail outlets. Their business would shrink, but I'll bet they would make more money. You could probably work some sort of money-making financing angle into the system.
It wouldn't do the dealers a lot of good, but I'd rather give money to a manufacturer than to someone who's value added is putting a thing on a shelf.
Obviously, they have a website already, but they are obviously protecting their current distribution network via their pricing.
Vinko
Well-known member
You know, there's all levels of how this kind of thing is done. I can't speak for consumer electronics (which is probably what you're thinking about), but for professional/industrial products, there's a lot of ways to skin the cat. I've seen places that did 0% of manufacturing in-house and basically had some 3rd party ship completely finished goods to a warehouse for resale to a dealer network. About as far as I've seen go the other direction, at least since the offshoring really hit in earnest in the 1980's, is to do your own circuit board stuffing and soldering, final assembly and test, etc, in-house. Companies, except for the largest ones, rarely do casework or individual components themselves. Mind you, I'm talking about boutique products here.
With that as background, in the worlds I've dealt with, you'll see something on the order of a 3x markup on the purchased raw material to deal with...then you hit the value added resellers, dealer network, etc. I don't doubt that in some businesses, the resale network brings a lot to the table in terms of trade shows and just general salesmanship...but in other worlds, they're just order takers, and get a pretty darned big cut. High end products will, of course, tend to have a higher margin. A lot of that is to cover the higher non-recurring engineering in order to design and build the first one (and to cover the fact that you are buying components at higher cost). You can cut margins if you build a jillion of a thing (and, oddly, make it more reliable).
It's that second group of resellers, the order takers, that it wouldn't be so bad to deal out of the game. I suppose it's like the death of wholesalers with the onslaught of national retail chains like Walmart, Costco, Amazon, etc. As a side note, we've probably held down inflation to some extent by improving the efficiency of distribution, but that's a one time improvement.
Some manufacturing engineer out there might disagree with all of this, but I don't think I'm lying about anything.
Maybe you'll see a wave of aggressive direct sales for different products because of the internet. Places like Amazon can provide the infrastructure that's hard to do yourself.
Vinko
Well-known member
Pep: a lot of good info in your post. And lot that is intriguing, but I'm largely ignorant of the basics so really can't respond.
I do see (and have observed) first hand the idea of the "order taker" and the large cut he gets. I've seen where that can hurt the manufacturer as well. When there aren't too many middle-men, it almost can make sense, I think, for the mfr, to cut that "order taker" and go direct himself. Esp. if he's doing all the work.
Also hear you on the increase in distribution efficiency. I think that sort of thing has trickled down to benefit a lot of smaller guys. I know some of it has helped me.
I did have "consumer electronics" in mind, only because a friend of mine who is an audiophile was making some comparisons between super, super high-end stuff and the bottom end and how different trade shows have split off in the last 20 years because those boutique firms found they had very very little in common with the large co's.
rocco
Well-known member
you americans are damn lucky to have Amazon to order from - heck, i'd love to get some PB swiss goodness at such a low price. We end up paying so much in shipping and brokerage its almost not worth it!
Ed_EOD
Well-known member
Well, it looks like the PB Swiss gravy train ran off the tracks. Very limited selection that no one wants. Oh well.
blue dog
Banned
I scoured amazon late last week for pb swiss pin punches and regular punches and did pretty good. $35.52 including a ph2 multicraft driver. But i agree the pb swiss gravy train has ran it's course. I am glad i got in when i could because i think the pb stuff is top notch,everything that i have purchased has exceeded my expectations and outside of amazon and small parts, i do not see this stuff anywhere, even online.
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Deskmechanic
Well-known member
There are still a few goodies - I just recieved a ratcheting screwdriver for $23 so keep looking...
tonydanzah
Well-known member
count on tools sells these
blue dog
Banned
Give us your impressions of the ratcheting screwdriver. i was looking at the swiss grip version.