Some Tile Questions ...

[Tx2000]

I recently found this great forum when looking for options for my garage floor and have lots of questions!

I have gone through pretty all flooring options that are out there and currently think that maybe porcelain tile would be the best for me ...

I dont want epoxy as I think it is something that when done DIY can go horribly wrong and may not last over 5-7 years. Racedeck doesnt seem to be a good idea for a work floor and also is very expensive (costs >$5 sqft here).

For maybe the same or less money I might be able to get tiles ...

Take in mind this is pacific canada and costs for materials are x2 - x3 and labour x5 - x10 when compared to the US ....

So everything will be painfully expensive


I have a few questions for tile (I want to get most sorted out and get an understanding before I get guys in telling me about things I may not understand and also want to be able to ask the right questions).

The garage is double garage ~485 sqft, looks like an enclosed carport, 40 years old and concrete floor. no cracks


- how flat does my floor have to be? Can I easily determine if its flat enough?
- does it need to have a membrane under the concrete? since it started as a carport I dont think they would have overdone it with putting membranes under the concrete ....
- is moisture coming through the concrete an issue for tiles? Can I easily determine if its ok? I heard about putting plastic down and looking for condensation. Should I do this?
- Is putting tiles down DIY territory? I am good with DIY but have never worked on tiles/concrete that sort of thing....
- If going DIY, are there steps that I should contract out and others that I can do myself ?
- will tiles have an issue with rolling floor jacks over it and putting jack stands down (2.5t truck). I dont to much mechanical car work anymore but want the floor to hold up if I do

Thanks!

Matt

 

[Tx2000]

Thanks Joe! This sounds almost too easy!

I read about a non crack underlay for tiles. should something like that be used or just tiles on concrete?

 

[ddawg16]

Why does the labor have to be expensive? You do it.

It's not hard....we can help you. Plenty of info on the web as well.

As for that underlay......nope.....your floor.....assuming it's clean, is fine. Just use the proper thin set and have fun.

 

[Dakota00]

Where are you located?

 

[duneslider]

A crack suppression membrane is NEVER a bad thing. All it does is increase the likelihood that your floor lasts a long long time. Its kind of like a little extra insurance. If you can afford it, do it.

I have never heard that tile materials and labor was that much higher in CA. All the guys I know up there that do it haven't made that comment to me, maybe it is a regional thing? I know some areas of the USA are more expensive than others.

Anyway, if you take care you can DIY it. The johnbridge forum is a good place for information that is correct and accurate given by professionals that know what they are doing.

If your slab isn't flat you WILL NOT have a happy time with the install. The industry minimum standard is 1/4" deviation in 10' and no more than 1/16" in 12" and that is not hard to achieve for a decent concrete guy but that is also the standard for 12" or smaller tile. If you have tile bigger than 12" then the standard is half that 1/8" in 10' and 1/16" in 24". Use a 10 foot straight edge (you could use a good straight piece of wood) and see what kind of gaps you have under the straight edge. Low spots can be filled with floor patch/slc and high spots can be ground down. It WILL make your life better if you prep appropriately.

 

[Today's Tom Sawyer]

I'll pretty much just echo what everyone above has said. Porcelain tiles are the way I'm going as well. I've done a few tile projects before, but on the bathroom and kitchen scale, never an entire two bat garage. But, really, if you can lay 4 tiles in a square arrangement, you can lay 400 tiles.

I used a long straight edge to find a few low spots in my slab, and am filling those with a little bit of concrete leveler. Actually it's easy to see where your low spots are after you park a wet car. Look for where the water runs to and puddles.

For my tile, I found a flooring contractor who had a job cancel on him after he had ordered the materials. It was a car dealership, and he had ordered over 50,000 square feet of 12x12 gray porcelain tiles, which he was now stuck with, and did not have storage room for. He was selling them on Craigslist for "best offer", and I wound up with 650 square feet for $550.

 

[rayra]

I've done a lot of tiling projects and on concrete floors and bathroom / shower walls.

There are membranes, not sure I'd bother with a garage. But generally ALL slabs crack. One way or another. The contractor that poured it ought to have put expansion joints in the pour OR relief cuts in the top face of the slab after it set. Those help control / direct the cracking.
'Ditra' is the chief name in the membrane field. It will cost a lot for a 500sq' floor.

'standard' fired / glazed / porcelain tile have a bottom price of roughly $1/sq' here in L.A. and typically range up around $3/sq' for better brands and fancier finishes.

The bigger the tiles the easier the job will be, but the more important a flat level floor becomes. If your floor is rough, consider renting a grinder, doesn't cost a lot and it's a quick learn if you are a handy guy. Very much like operating a floor buffer.

If your floor is flat with only a few imperfections, you can get away with a floor scraper, sort of like a hoe with a flat blade. Typically used in removing tile floors, it can serve to knock down a few stray spills or rough areas somewhat. Beyond that, it's on your (padded) knees with a masonry chisel, maul and goggles.

There's a few kinds of cementitious mortars, old skool. Several product lines provide a sort of latex bonding agent you can mix in as an additive, for better adhesion. I typically use a product called Versabond, dry mix with the agent pre-added. Very gooey stuff. I've had a slab crack AFTER laying Sautillo pavers on it with Versabond and the tiles themselves cracked as the slab did, rather than the tiles themselves popping loose as they usually would wtih a non-bonding mortar. in fact that was a problem in repairing that floor, devil of a time getting the damaged tiles out. For a garage where tiles might get broken, you might want to deliberately avoid a bonding agent specifically so you can more easily replace a busted tile at a later date. (you will be buying several 'extra' matching tiles and keeping them around, this is why).

And that brings us to laying the tile themselves. Particularly with the issues of a car, vehicles parked on them, a potentially rough or uneven surface. There are several versions of 'notched' trowel to use when laying tile. Each produces a different 'bed' for the tiles when you are laying them. Finely V-grooved tiles are more typically for an adhesive mastic, smooth tyles, smooth floors and smooth substrates like drywall, greenwall or wonderboard. The tile are 'set' well down into this bed, for adhesion adhesion.
Rough floors or rough tiles like sautillo of slate stones or pavers that are inherently uneven, you'll want a trowel with a large U-notch, big enough to fit your finger in. This gives you fat beads of mortar which help bridge the gaps under your tiles. Akin to laying a fat bead of caulk. Providing your floor is even enough and you are using typical porcelain tile, which is quite flat / even, you should do well with a 1/4" square notch trowel.

When laying a large floor, I typically 'butter' a couple square yards of floor, as much as I can reach while kneeling on some foam pads (like those fatigue mats at cash registers) without having to move much. Wheelbarrow of mix on my right, batch of tiles staged by my left side. Fairly efficient. Makes it quick to lay an area. Ten get up and re-set everything for the next batch. Working away from the laid tiles. Don't tile yourself into the corner. If your layout interferes with your exit, I typically lay tiles dry, no mortar, face down on the floor and use the tile spaces to keep things square while laying the rest. Laying the upside down tiles on my exit path. Then I pull those up to exit, switch things around and tile my way out of the space.
Did that in my own home when laying a dining / kitchen full of travertine, but it was the path to the attached garage. Sort of a hopscotch pattern. A day or so later I laid and marked the rest and walked on the others.

When choosing your layout, keep in mind the dimensions of your tiles, the gap you choose, and your overall dimensions. The goal is to lay the ile in a way that precludes having an ugly narrow band of tile at one edge. Try to determine your measurements accurately enough that you can split the difference and have fuller partial tiles at the edges. The other cosmetic issue when laying any sort of flooring material is try to start with the full tiles / bricks / whatever at the leading edge, the edge that is most visible, or first arrived at, like the garage opening or a doorway or entryway. Let the partial cut edges vanish at the far walls, under benches and cabinets where they are not seen.

Grouting the seams, they make a neoprene-faced trowel, works best IMAO. The rubber squeegee kind work but are less forgiving. You'll be fussing with it more. Avoid the wood type.

Lastly, it's an opportunity to be 'fancy'. A perimeter border or a different color tile. incorporating different sizes. Or even a checkerboard as is done with that plastic race car matting. Typically tiles of a different color in the same style and size are the same price. So lots of opportunity to make it look nicer than a meat-packing plant. Lighter colors will also brighten your workspace, working under cars, make dropped hardware easier to spot.

If you have other questions, just PM me, in case I don't make it back to this topic.

It will be a lot of tiring work, but it will be worth it. And it's a skill that's very useful on other projects.


eta here's a few of my tiling projects the last 15yrs or so

Here's that scraping tool I was referring to

 

[duneslider]

Wow, I don't even have words. I would NOT take the suggestions of the above post. Too much misinformation to even address.

Don't just take my word for it, look up the industry standards and see what real pros say.

 

[Dakota00]

^^^ lmao, I'm glad you said it... I couldn't even bother to make a comment!

 

[rustyjames]

^^^^^^Really, the bigger the tiles the easier? Nothing can be further from the truth.

 

[rayra]

You three are some arrogant mofos. And I'll point out for all your posturing of expertise, you didn't add a bit of info for the OP, other than to **** on my post and make autistic appeals to expertise. Or post examples of your own work, for that matter. It's your kind of excrement that ruins DIY forums / topics.

The OP is talking about doing it himself, and talks about the high expenses involved.

Talking about a garage. Your own garage. Talking about time, which is always a factor in 'do it yourself', for yourself. Not talking about marble floors with perfect edges, lippage, demanding spoiled housewives or any of your other professional troubles. I'm talking about a guy doing his own garage. Doing it with porcelain tiles.

Ditra's over a $1.60 / sq' here in CA, and 10% tax on top of it, RETAIL, you pompous asses. A $900 add-on. You're telling this guy he should double the cost of his DIY home GARAGE floor. And you didn't do a goddamned thing to help inform a person seeking tips for DIY. He's asking how to do it, not who to hire.

The guy's asking about doing his own tile, so help him do his own tile. You "experts".

 

[rustyjames]

Sorry, but large format porcelain is not easier to lay, especially on a surface that isn't pretty much dead flat. You're not helping anyone by posting incorrect information. My suggestion to the OP is to join the John Bridge Tile forum, they are helpful and will steer you straight.

 

[philofab]

Pretty much every house I've rented in Mexico has a tiled garage. Most are Terracotta, and be aware that depending on what you choose it may be slippery when wet for both your feet and the car's tires.

I don't think I'd tile a garage that I did work in, but I would have no problem tiling the garage I store cars in.

 

[MagKarl]

If you want to learn how to tile, go here and start reading: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php?

 

[Angelfire]

Pretty much every house I've rented in Mexico has a tiled garage. Most are Terracotta, and be aware that depending on what you choose it may be slippery when wet for both your feet and the car's tires.

I don't think I'd tile a garage that I did work in, but I would have no problem tiling the garage I store cars in.

There are plenty of porcelain offerings out there that offer good slip resistance when wet. Just a matter of getting the right wet CoF material.

I went with porcelain after considering the many options. I have yet to install as I got sent overseas but am confident I made a good decision and my garage definitely will see work activity vs. being a showroom.

To the OP, laying tile in large areas can be difficult particularly for a relative newby to doing tile. John Bridge has been mentioned a few times....they are a great resource to get help but there are plenty of threads here in Flooring that should give you a pretty darn good start. Just search for porcelain and you should have plenty to chose from.
Cheers.

 

[Jess]

If you want to learn how to tile, go here and start reading: http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php?

I learned a bunch from this site, especially about different methods for wood floors v/s concrete, ditra with heat mats and laying out large floors. In the end, I did all my own work and it turned out great. Take your time, learn about the different methods and yours will turn out great too.

 

[duneslider]

You three are some arrogant mofos. And I'll point out for all your posturing of expertise, you didn't add a bit of info for the OP, other than to **** on my post and make autistic appeals to expertise. Or post examples of your own work, for that matter. It's your kind of excrement that ruins DIY forums / topics.

The OP is talking about doing it himself, and talks about the high expenses involved.

Talking about a garage. Your own garage. Talking about time, which is always a factor in 'do it yourself', for yourself. Not talking about marble floors with perfect edges, lippage, demanding spoiled housewives or any of your other professional troubles. I'm talking about a guy doing his own garage. Doing it with porcelain tiles.

Ditra's over a $1.60 / sq' here in CA, and 10% tax on top of it, RETAIL, you pompous asses. A $900 add-on. You're telling this guy he should double the cost of his DIY home GARAGE floor. And you didn't do a goddamned thing to help inform a person seeking tips for DIY. He's asking how to do it, not who to hire.

The guy's asking about doing his own tile, so help him do his own tile. You "experts".

I tried thinking of a way to say you were wrong without being an arrogant mofo. I apologize if you took it that way. Had we been in the same room we could have sat down and had a drink and discussed everything that you said that was not quite right. Unfortunately, I didn't have hours to correct everything that was incorrect so I suggested that the OP look up the correct info and not base ANY of his decisions off incorrect information.

If the OP still has any questions on installation I would be happy to continue helping him with correct information based off of industry standards and my own professional experience. Nobody has to follow any of my advice either, I am just another dude on the internet. I would recommend anyone question my comments. I won't be offended and I might even learn something.

 

[mike93lx]

The OP was referring to a membrane under the slab, not laying a membrane on the slab like Ditra.

That said, my folks have tile on their basement floor which has significant water problems and they have never had a tile lift. I personally wouldn't worry. If you have water penetrating your slab now, you should probably have a sump pump anyway.

 

[duneslider]

The OP was referring to a membrane under the slab, not laying a membrane on the slab like Ditra.

That said, my folks have tile on their basement floor which has significant water problems and they have never had a tile lift. I personally wouldn't worry. If you have water penetrating your slab now, you should probably have a sump pump anyway.

Moisture coming through the slab can cause problems with tile. Particularly efflorescence. Tile is generally fine for handling moisture (pools, showers, tubs, fountains, etc.) but you have to use the proper materials.

One of the things that Ditra does do well is help with moisture under the tile. It provides it with an area for the moisture to go without coming up through the grout and causing efflorescence.