SOS: old school ratchets

[ap1ayer]

hey guys, i just started learning about tools and had a question. thanks, this site is awesome. my dilemma is with a couple of very old ratchets i found in my garage. ill try my best to explain situation one the best i can so you guys can understand.

ratchet 1
-it says "snap-on tm70b" on it and was held on with 2 (-) screws with a on/off lever. fits 1/4 sockets
-i removed the screws but the ratchet faces seems to be stuck in place, like its glued together and the screws were just for "show" is it supposed to be like that? and with each click of the gear, the on/off lever jumps a little like its about to change lever directions. im not sure if it did this before i had sprayed white lithium grease into it(as per directions on the back of the can) but i dont remember the gear clicks feeling so sticky and not smooth. any way to undo what i did since the ratches wont disassemble?

ratchet 2
-says "challenger mfd1261usa" held on with 2 (+) screws with a on/off lever. fits 3/8 sockets
-when i removed the screws on this one, it instantly fell apart and i couldnt see which parts went where. its pretty straightforward though since all that popped out were 2 springs, 1 gear wheel thats connected to the 3/8 socket connecter, 2 rectangular pieaces of metal shaped like a tooth that are different in size.
-my question is which tooth is supposed to support which movement (ie. big tooth/on switch, small tooth/off...) no matter how i put it in and close it up, the ratchet will work smoothly for a little while then the insides will stop working as if the springs were moving out of place. also, the lever doesnt move at all when it does work, like the one above. which is normal?

sorry if this is hard to understand and thank you in advance.

 

[krusty the clown]

i don't have much experience with the challenger ratchets but i would take the snap on to a snap on dealer and have him warranty the ratchet head it was made into the 80's so a repair kit will be available. challenger is out of production but you may try to contact proto as it was a proto brand.

 

[wilbilt]

I have a TM70B in need of a kit as well. If you contact your local dealer, he should be able to take care of it.

Don't bother contacting snapon.com....they won't help you, even if you offer to send them the ratchet and pay postage both ways.

 

[ap1ayer]

thanks krusty, but will snap on warranty even though i dont have reciepts or other proof of purchases? because i have alot more i could refurbish.

 

[Deafautotech]

you dont need recipt to show proof that you are owner of snap on ratchet. big problems is snap on dealers... some dealers wont warranty the ratchet to be repair if only want fix the ratchet... same with wilbilt do in past time... i am offering you and wilbilt to mail the ratchets and i will have my snap on guy to do rebuild it for you. he had rebuilt my few snap on ratchets after i bought from him because i am too rough on ratchets... broke pawls in pieces...

 

[krusty the clown]

thanks krusty, but will snap on warranty even though i dont have reciepts or other proof of purchases? because i have alot more i could refurbish.

like the other guy's said you'll need a GOOD snap on guy, ask around at local garages they'll know the good ones. they should repair it no questions asked without a reciept but in my experience it'll be the dealers who aren't cutting it with the mothership that'll give you problems with warranty.

and let us know what proto offers to do for you.

 

[ap1ayer]

how would i contact proto? should i just email them at stanleyproto.com? if there gonna give me a new stanley ratchet from walmart, i rather not go through the trouble...

 

[krusty the clown]

how would i contact proto? should i just email them at stanleyproto.com? if there gonna give me a new stanley ratchet from walmart, i rather not go through the trouble...

yep.....i wouldnt want it replaced with a china one either. i guess thier website would be a place to start. or find a local proto dealer, they may have them listed on the site as well.

 

[Kurn]

I have a Snap On 1/4 ratchet that I bought in 1972-every now and then it will slip.Snap On told me long ago if the pawl or gear isn't broken,then just take it apart and oil the hell out of it.I did and it works fine.I generally have to do this once a year or so.Unless something is broken or defective this is all the dealer will do.

 

[ap1ayer]

I have a Snap On 1/4 ratchet that I bought in 1972-every now and then it will slip.Snap On told me long ago if the pawl or gear isn't broken,then just take it apart and oil the hell out of it.I did and it works fine.I generally have to do this once a year or so.Unless something is broken or defective this is all the dealer will do.

since only the screws can be removed in mine, should i just unscrew it and dip the whole thing in oil? also, what kind of oil? thank you

 

[Deafautotech]

since only the screws can be removed in mine, should i just unscrew it and dip the whole thing in oil? also, what kind of oil? thank you

it is "bearing grease" as my snap on guy used special grease from snap on rebuild kit... it is working good but i am still rough it...

 

[MAD]

since only the screws can be removed in mine, should i just unscrew it and dip the whole thing in oil? also, what kind of oil? thank you

I would let it soak in PB Blaster or WD40 overnight.

 

[MAD]

Also tap on the circular depression in the top center of the ratchet head (opposite the square drive). That is the back of the drive gear. That should push the cover plate free. Go easy until the cover begins to pop free then gently pry it off with you finger. Go easy so it all stays intact so you can see how to put it back together.

 

[wrenchr]

It is best to take it apart so you can inspect the gear and pawl + clean it with a wire brush/rag and put your favorite oil in there and it will work like a charm!!

 

[old salvage]

Dont know if this has been said but Challenger was a line of tools by Penens
before they were bought by Proto.
Your Challenger ratchet sounds like my Penens 1661 inside.
I'll take pics of the inside and post .

 

[old salvage]

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[eschoendorff]

Hope this helps. Good luck.

That definitely looks like old school Proto.

 

[wrenchr]

Proto for sure, Even though I have never seen a challenger version before. Cool!!!

 

[wrenchr]

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Can you post a pic of the other side? I have a fleet ratchet that looks really close to that.

 

[wrenchr]

I know fleet was owned by proto as well.

 

[kartracer55]

BE careful tapping on the round center plate on the back of the ratchet because they are flimsy and will dent. I would put the drive square in a vice and use a rubber mallet to GENTLY tap it loose. Spin the handle so it sort of comes out straight.

I have a snap on ratchet from the 60's that I still use frequently, it just has that feel to it, ya know? I broke it once ( just age, hardly applying torque) and a rebuild kit was still around for it. Of course, it was backordered, but I eventually got one. For the other ratchet, Id say soak the head in PB blaster or something like that and see if it free's it up.

The Grease vs. oil debate is one that runs on and on here. It depends on the ratchet for me. The old snap on gets white lithium grease, Most of my others get household oil. The problem with grease, especially in fine toothed ratchets, is that it can back between the gear teeth when it starts to dry out making it easier to slip. I read once that an older mechanic used to soak all his ratchets head down in a can of oil every night and they lasted for some crazy long time. I like oil because when you hit your ratchet with brake cleaner after a messy job the grease can get contaminated, but with oil, you flush it out, let it dry and oil it back up no problem, no disassembly.

Jim

 

[old salvage]

Can you post a pic of the other side? I have a fleet ratchet that looks really close to that.

As you can see it has a very fat head and a short handle.

 

[ap1ayer]

old savage, thank you very much, yes our ratchets do indeed look very similar except the writing on the very top where mine just says challenger. i have some questions for you if you dont mind,
1. is the toothlike metal that clicks against the gear both of the same size in yours because from the angle of the picture it is hard to tell. and does it matter which tooth(big/small) should operate which direction(on/off) i put the larger tooth to control the off position since usuaully removing bolts require more oomph then installing and also thanks to your picture i realize that the springs were put in upside down on mine, which was causing the machanism to slip but now it works perfect. thank you.

2. should i wd40 the insides? because i wiped off all the gunk before i put it together, and it feels so smooth that i dont see a reason to.

3. does your on/off lever jump or twitch as the ratchet is rotating? i could have swore mine did before but it doesnt at all now yet still works fine.


ps: i feel like an idiot buying a mechanics set at autozone last weekend when the old tools were up to par or even better in some ways. but now i truly appreciate the value of tools and how important it is, especiallly considering that some are decades old yet can still keep up with todays standard, which is a really rare trait in todays world. and i wanted to thank everyone for their advice and help and also for allowing me to feel welcome. thank you all and happy holidays.

 

[eschoendorff]

2. should i wd40 the insides? because i wiped off all the gunk before i put it together, and it feels so smooth that i dont see a reason to.

WD 40 is useless for this. Clean it out with brake cleaner and then oil it liberally. Then enjoy using it for another 150 years.

 

[MAD]

WD 40 is useless for this. Clean it out with brake cleaner and then oil it liberally. Then enjoy using it for another 150 years.

For the record, my reference to WD 40 / PB Blaster was only to loosen any corrosion that may be causing the cover plate on the Snap-on ratchet cover plate to stick. Not as a long term lube for either ratchet mechanism.

 

[MAD]

BE careful tapping on the round center plate on the back of the ratchet because they are flimsy and will dent. I would put the drive square in a vice and use a rubber mallet to GENTLY tap it loose. Spin the handle so it sort of comes out straight.


Jim

If the round depression on the back of the ratchet spins with the square drive then it is ok to tap. If it does not spin when you turn the drive then it is a cover plate and not the back of the drive gear and kartracer's method is the way to go.

 

[old salvage]

ap1ayer
I think those toothlike things are called pawls and yes they are both the same size in this ratchet. I've never seen one with different size pawls but if yours is different then placcement might be important. I'd try assembling both ways to see which feels better.
As for the wd I just use it for loosening crud. As was said above it doesnt always work. 'Pblaster is better but use it outside or it will b'last your brain cells.
On this ratchet the on off lever does not move as the ratchet turns. Again yours may be different .
Dont fret about the autozone kit. You cant have too many tools.

 

[wrenchr]

As you can see it has a very fat head and a short handle.

same as my fleet.

 

[wrenchr]

old savage, thank you very much, yes our ratchets do indeed look very similar except the writing on the very top where mine just says challenger. i have some questions for you if you dont mind,
1. is the toothlike metal that clicks against the gear both of the same size in yours because from the angle of the picture it is hard to tell. and does it matter which tooth(big/small) should operate which direction(on/off) i put the larger tooth to control the off position since usuaully removing bolts require more oomph then installing and also thanks to your picture i realize that the springs were put in upside down on mine, which was causing the machanism to slip but now it works perfect. thank you.

2. should i wd40 the insides? because i wiped off all the gunk before i put it together, and it feels so smooth that i dont see a reason to.

3. does your on/off lever jump or twitch as the ratchet is rotating? i could have swore mine did before but it doesnt at all now yet still works fine.


ps: i feel like an idiot buying a mechanics set at autozone last weekend when the old tools were up to par or even better in some ways. but now i truly appreciate the value of tools and how important it is, especiallly considering that some are decades old yet can still keep up with todays standard, which is a really rare trait in todays world. and i wanted to thank everyone for their advice and help and also for allowing me to feel welcome. thank you all and happy holidays.

Welcome to the board!! can you post a pic of the Snap-On??

 

[wrenchr]

I do no like grease for the record, It gums up. I have a fine tooth matco that jammed up and no I did not have to much grease in there. 3 n 1 work's great for me.

 

[old salvage]

same as my fleet.

Old Plomb ratchets were very similar to these too. At least the wartime ones were. The only thing I dont like about them (plomb) is that the part that moves the pawls back n forth ( that nub on the end of the shift lever ) is just a solid piece of cast metal and prone to rounding off with use. Eventually it rounds off so much that it never fully dis-engages either pawl.
With the latter design the sheet metal shifter is better since you can 'adjust' for wear by simply bending the tabs outward a bit.

 

[ap1ayer]

Welcome to the board!! can you post a pic of the Snap-On??

i can email you the pictures, do you think you can post it for me? if anyone else can, please let me know... im curious on what you guys think about which pawl goes in which direction for the challenger.

oh, and on the snap on, i tried to tap the round end opposite of the socket connecting side since it does indeed rotate with the other side, but it doesnt seem to budge, then again, i just tapped it with a small back end of a screwdriver, so im not sure if that is enough force...

 

[MAD]

ioh, and on the snap on, i tried to tap the round end opposite of the socket connecting side since it does indeed rotate with the other side, but it doesnt seem to budge, then again, i just tapped it with a small back end of a screwdriver, so im not sure if that is enough force...

Don't be afraid to tap it with a few light blows with a small hammer and pin punch /etc. Just start very lightly and increase until the cover begins to pop off.

 

[ap1ayer]

update: i called the customer service number on the stanleyproto website today. a lady answered and basically told me to f*%# myself. heres how it went.

cs(customer service): yea....
me: hi, i had a question about an old protochall...
cs: we dont have any service kits for the proto challenger brand
me: i know, i just had a question and thought you guys could help me out
cs: no we cant, go call plum(???), thats who you want
me: excuse me?
(complete silence for about 10 seconds)
me: hello?
cs: yea...
me: can i just get your opinion on whether..
cs: look you need to go call...
me: on whether you guys recommend which direction, forward or reverse might be stronger in your proto ratchets?
cs: what?
me: because im not sure which pawl controls which movement since the pawl are different in widths.
cs: hold on
(3 minutes go by then doo dooo dooo, the time allowed to dial has been exeeded...)
i just decided not to call back but dude, im sure customer reps get alot of rude calls but there should be a law where anybody who is titled as a customer rep cant throw the attitude first. i dont think they should have to put up with a caller who gets out of hand first but definitely shouldnt be the one starting it. to say the least, that call made me want to propose a law for all major companies to have a special phone number where customers can send in their own recordings of conversations with so called customer reps. because alot of companies need to know how some of their reps are representing them (ie, car dealer, cable company, tech support, etc...) im not sure if every cell phone has a recording option (mine does) but this would cut through the chase and get straight to the facts.

btw... i respect craftsman for retaining the negative reviews on the products they sell for the public to see, although i do think some of them might be the one person with a vendetta against the company.