Source for brick-type cinder blocks

[75gmck25]

I want to add height to my 1940 garage (20'x19'), which looks like standard brick on the outside, but with the inside made of cinder-block sized hollow clay brick blocks.

They used hollow clay brick blocks on the inside, and then after every two rows tied them to the exterior brick facing with standard bricks (you can see the rows of tie bricks). The total thickness of the walls is about 8". The hollow brick blocks are about 12" long x 7 1/4" tall x 3 5/8" deep and the standard bricks are 3 5/8" x 2 1/4" x 8".

The garage wall is only 8' 4" inside to the top of the last block, and I want to make it about 8-10" taller to give more height when I finish the floor (SLC and added floor coverings may be 2-3" thick). For example I could get 8" more height by adding one row of hollow block, and then get another 2 1/4" with another row of tie bricks.

However, my other choice is to forget about using brick to increase the wall height, and add about 8-10" of framed wall before I rebuild the roof trusses. I already plan to remove all the roof trusses and rebuild the roof with more robust framing and more overhang.

Anyone have suggestions on how hard it would be to find the right sized clay block materials to increase the size of the wall using brick/block? Most suppliers seem to be from India or other non-US sources, so it looks like they are not used much in current construction.

Or should I just frame a short wall on top of the existing brick before framing in the new roof? Would there be an issue with stability of the short framed wall, since I'm not sure how to tie it to the existing brick wall? One advantage of the short framed wall on top would be the option of adding a few small windows for natural light.

Thanks for any input/suggestions.

Bruce

 

[kbs2244]

Get a good mason.
He can tell you if what you have would be a good foundation for an additional height.
If you want, he can get the same style clay tile, but would probably prefer to use block for the interior part.
Just because it is easier to get.

If cost is a concern, I would guess making the wood wall higher would be cheaper.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Anyone have suggestions on how hard it would be to find the right sized clay block materials to increase the size of the wall using brick/block? Most suppliers seem to be from India or other non-US sources, so it looks like they are not used much in current construction.

At least in my experience, bricks tend to be pretty regional - they're heavy, so they're made and sold locally rather than shipping them long distances. As mentioned try to find a local mason who's experienced on older construction, or at least make the rounds of the local brick suppliers to see if you can find something that matches your building.

 

[75gmck25]

I will see if I can find a local mason who knows anything about this type of construction and whether I could find the materials to add another row of block. I think it was fairly common construction in this area in the 40's, but things have changed a lot since then.

My main concern is to keep decent headroom as I clean up and finish out the garage, since its already only 8'4". When I level the floor I would like to raise it up at least 2-3" so that its well above the natural drainage swale that runs along one side and the back of the garage. I could probably get by with only a thin layer of SLC to level the floor, but it may not bond well to the old concrete floor. Removing the entire old concrete floor and doing a new pour is the best floor solution, but it would raise the cost a lot and I'm not sure I want to get into that expense right now.

My other simple option for a little more wall height may be to use a top plate that is made of three thicknesses of 2x8's (there is only one now), which would be easy to add on before I install the new trusses. If I use a 1-2 foot overhang and cover the soffits you probably wouldn't even see the triple top plate area from the outside.

Thanks again.

Bruce

 

[Chris705]

One course of 4" block (8"t x 16"l x 4" thk.) find matching brick to veneer outside. Should be 3 brick courses. Clay tile construction dates back to the 1900's used up to the 30's....not likely to find that material any longer. Both the original detailing and my solution don't lend themselves very well to resist wind uplift on the roof. Is there any evidence of piers or hold downs of the rafters along the walls?

 

[kbs2244]

I expect it will come down to a "looks vs dollars" decision.
The added masonry may look better, but carpenters are cheaper than masons.

 

[Bib Overalls]

Form up and place a concrete bond beam on the top of the existing wall. Run a couple of rebars and set truss connectors in the concrete. Something you can do yourself with a couple of in shape friends. If you take care when you build the forms and spend some time tapping on the sides of the forms to consolidate the concrete and minimize voids the result will be more than acceptable. Your not expecting to find new bricks to match the 50+ year old ones that you have are you?

 

[wssix99]

Get a good mason.

+1

find matching brick to veneer outside.

^ This should be what you are worried about. Are you in Old Town? Finding a matched brick will be near impossible unless you cannibalize another part of your house. Maybe you could hide the add-on section with wood work?


My wife is a general contractor and historical preservationist - and also from VA. She tells me that the typical way to handle this (for your clay block) is just to build up a layer of bricks on top. (She is not optimistic about you finding more clay brick - she says its not stable and crumbles - so it's unlikely you will find used block like this.)

She thinks there is zero chance Alexandria will let you put a framed wall on top of what you have, currently.

 

[Hmrhead]

I would suggest going to http://www.glengery.com/ or https://generalshale.com/ for local brick distributors. They are 2 of the largest brick manufactures in the Eastern U.S. ask them for a small job mason list. Very unlikely you will find anything that will match but the mason may be able to come up with using an alternate masonry material i.e. natural stone to compliment your existing brick. Would even guess that what you have is no longer to code and finding used would be difficult.

 

[mjwelte]

For the structural brick look at Summit Brick http://www.summitbrick.com and Interstate Brick http://www.interstatebrick.com/. I work for Summit and we have a distributor in Virginia at Potomac Valley Brick Company. We have a fair amount of work in New York and Chicago as we can custom blend brick for restoration jobs. Your biggest issue will be the shipping costs. We are in Colorado and Interstate is in Utah. We both have national distributors. However shipping is not bad if included with a bigger order.

Mixing concrete block and clay brick could give you problems on the inside. They move differently due to heating and cooling so there will be wall stresses if used together. You should be able to get close to what you have. It may take some time but very possible. Also check for used brick places in your area. It is more expensive than new brick due the cleaning labor but there are places that specialize in restoration brick supply.

Mark

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you plan on completely doing the roof over, have you even considered a complete overall tear down and rebuild ? You also mention doing some work to the floor to raise the height.

Before you get carried away with the project, run the numbers. Figure what it would cost for the materials and mason vs you building four new stick walls. I'm assuming you have the skills to do that as you mention rebuilding the roof. It may allow you to go slightly larger (24x24) and use a stock 24' 4/12 roof truss.