South Bend Lathe Question

[Dying Fetus]

Hi guys,

I've been wanting to buy a lathe for a while and came across a 16x96" South Bend lathe. The owner believes it's a 1944 model. It's got a 1-1/2 HP 3 phase motor. The ways are in great shape (per seller). The through hole is 1.5". Included accessories are:

- 3-Jaw Chuck
- 4-Jaw Chuck
- Faceplate
- Aloris Quick Change Toolpost
- Manual Turret
- Drill Chuck
- Live center
- Tool holders and some misc tooling

My question is, how much is this worth? What are some common problems with these lathes? Anything I should look for? I've always used other people's lathes. This is the first time I'm buying my own. Anything tips?

Thanks for your time!

 

[rsanter]

the infortunate thing is that those bigger machines are not as popular or worth as much money as the smaller ones.
the issue is their size and their weight. they take up a bunch of space and they are hard to move.
if you have the room and can move it (or dont mind) then take advantage and get one because they can be really great machines. I have an older 12x30 that weighs about 2 tons and it is one stable smooth machine to operate. you can take some heavy cuts that a smaller 12x30 machine would stall or chatter.

with all that said....that machine was likly used in war production so look it over very carefully for wear from years of usage. most wear will be near the chuck on the ways

I would say that machine would be worth anywhere from $1500 to about $2800.
for some areas where it may be at a premium value it could go to $3500.
one thing that will hold the value up is that is seems to have a couple of chucks and some tooling with it.
owners often think the machines are worth more than they are (and they should be worth more) but the number of people willing to buy them is small so the value stays down.
if you buy it remember that you need to buy it to use in the long term. you will have some of the same trouble selling it.
if its in good shape and the price is right I would want the machine

if you need more info let me know

bob

 

[larry_g]

AS a first lathe and a general purpose lathe I would believe that there are better ones out there. One possible problem is a top speed that is under a 1000 rpm. Great for large chunks of material but poor for small work. It is a large footprint. The tool post if a real Aloris is worth some bucks. The taper attachment is a plus. I see no steadies and on long work they are necessary. If you are commonly working on stuff that requires that work envelope then it could be your lathe. Otherwise for me I would recommend something a bit smaller. I would pay 8 to 12 hundred for that lathe. Don't forget moving costs.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ZRX61]

If I had the room.... but.... I've been trying to sell my 13x40 SouthBend for about 2 years....

 

[jkeyser14]

I would only put it at $1000 due to the fact that the larger southbends aren't as popular. And since so few were made, replacement parts are near impossible to come by. I have a 14.5" which is very similar to the 16" and I only paid $600 for mine.

 

[Dying Fetus]

Thanks for the info guys!

As for the $600-800 figures, would it not bring more money to scrap a machine that heavy? I haven't seen anything that cheap in my area, unless it's an old and small bench top Craftsman or Atlas lathe.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Ign]

The machine looks nice. If everything works and you've got the room for it I wouldn't hesitate to try to get it. Value is too variable by area, seller motivation and lots of other factors.

Don't believe you shouldn't want it because allegedly others think it's undesireable. I'd take that over a noodle benchtop anyday, and I'd gladly pay more for it over a similar smaller machine. Machine tools are almost all about weight - the heavier the machine, the more it can do, the more accurate it will be, and the longer it will last.

That said, I personally don't consider anything without a QC gearbox. Doesn't mean it should be an issue for you.

 

[John Timmins]

I graduated from the engineering school my union had. We had a basement full of these. A machine shop class was developed for us to come back to school and take a refresher course 20 years later.

School lathes take a lot of abuse. What the new instructor did was take the lead screw off and turn it end to end and weld it in the appropriate position (not an easy job for anybody but a master machinst , tool and die maker etc.)
the reason for this is the lead screw gets worn in the area where the carriage does the most work as the feed of the carriage is engaged while turn or making threads etc.

Look at the wear of the machine before buying. Look at the threads of the lead screw at the end farthest from the motor. See their shape...nice and ACME. then look at the lead screw about 2 feet from the chuck. Do the threads look the same or more like a "VVVVVV" due to wear.

How precision to you want/need your lathe to be ? A lot of stuff is sold from factories because they are getting worn. Stuff from schools can be the worst because students make mistakes learning. that's OK but the equipment takes a beating

 

[iagsxr]

I looked at one almost identical that the seller had restored. By restored I mean the guy worked in a production shop and they'd replaced or remachined whatever needed it(including recutting the bed) to the point where I'm sure the machine was better than new. He'd built a backsplash and a tool cabinet that went with. Was painted and perfect.

It brought $2500. I thought too long, was probably a really good deal.

Without seeing it in person, I'd think the one you posted easily $15-1800. Around me anything that looks like a lathe'll bring a grand.

 

[rasit]

As for the $600-800 figures, would it not bring more money to scrap a machine that heavy?

It would be a crime to scrap an old Southbend, probably do better parting it out. I wouldn't hesitate to pay $1800 for that machine.

 

[Dying Fetus]

Thanks for the replys guys!

How hard is it to find replacement parts for these lathes? If a gear broke, am I totally screwed?

It would be a crime to scrap an old Southbend, probably do better parting it out. I wouldn't hesitate to pay $1800 for that machine.

I know, but as far as money is concerend, wouldn't a 3 ton chunk of metal bring more than $600?

I'm going to go ahead and check the machine out. If it checked out ok, I'll buy it. Aside from a thorough visual inspection, I was thinking of taking a piece of round stock with me and turning it down to see if the machine cuts streight. What else would you guys recommend?

Thanks a lot!

 

[rsanter]

test run the machine if you can
look over it with a fine tooth comb

parts can be tough on older machines but there will be more help out there for a south bend than other brands
bearings are generally easy, gears arent that bad because they can be made of needed. major castings broken can be a death sentance

bob

 

[A_Pmech]

How hard is it to find replacement parts for these lathes? If a gear broke, am I totally screwed?

Parts? You have to make them.

I know, but as far as money is concerend, wouldn't a 3 ton chunk of metal bring more than $600?

It's nowhere near 3 tons. According to a South Bend ad I found, crated weight on the 16" by 8' was 2425, so bare weight would be right around a ton. Scrap is around $350 a ton.

I'm going to go ahead and check the machine out. If it checked out ok, I'll buy it. Aside from a thorough visual inspection, I was thinking of taking a piece of round stock with me and turning it down to see if the machine cuts streight. What else would you guys recommend?

Have a look here for some first-time buyer's advice:

http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html

 

[larry_g]

If your looking then look in the quickchange gear box. Your looking for broken or worn gears. You will usually find that one or 4 gears are worn as they were the most used. Wiggle the jaws in the chuck, loose jaws means worn chuck and poor repeatability. Run all the power feeds, listen for missing teeth on the drive gears. Look around for tooling esp. if the seller is not the owner operator of the machine. Two different times I have bought lathes out of estates and by looking around found other bits of the lathe kit. Things like steadies, chuck wrenches, cutters, changegears, faceplates, and other small bits end up in drawers and tool boxes. Good luck and I hope you find a great deal on a great machine. And as a good friend says to me years age, "Remember this is just your first lathe."

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Its three phase. Either you have three phase in your shop, or you will need a rotary phase converter or VFD or some other way to make three phase to run the lathe. Be sure and factor in that cost.

Also consider using an equipment rigger to move it, and factor that cost in.

Charles