South Central WI Garage Build

[greg86z28]

Hi all -

I'm in the planning stages of a new shop. We live outside of Madison, Wisconsin. Right now I'm in the process of moving a grain bin (full of firewood) and having an existing 22x27 detached garage removed (free to someone on facebook). I've already taken down the corn crib. The new shop will go in the place of these structures. Big oak tree will also be cut down as it is dying.


My plan is that this new shop will eventually be a dedicated working space - for a hobbyist - I'm not going to be running a home shop out of here. Would like to have enough comfortable space in the future to restore a car with my son plus have space to work on our daily driven vehicles (or other small projects).

However, for the next 5-10 years, I'll probably have to store cars (71 dart *******, 86 camaro) in this new shop until the barn is ready for storing over the winter. A friend has a 30x36 with a lift as a dedicated workspace and that's a really nice size. However, since I'll be storing 2 vehicles in there until I prep a different storage area, I was thinking 40' might be better for a depth, as it will give more space along the back wall. I've sketched out two sizes: 30x36 and 32x40 (although I think 30x40 is fine). I don't own a Ram 2500, but I wanted to gauge the space for working on a large vehicle. I'll be doing 12' 2x6 walls (stick build).

The unlabeled square next to the bench is a sink. DP is a drill press, KR1000 is my tool box, cabs are cabinets, comp is air compressor. The work bench at 10' is probably too wide. I don't know.
32x40' (I think 30x40 would be OK too):


30x36':


Any thoughts or other suggestions? Is there a far more efficient layout? Thanks guys. Plan on keeping this thread going as the project progresses, looking to learn from the folks here who have been down this path.

 

[Daubs]

You are thinking right to plan ahead! Go as big as you can. I've never heard anyone say, "Man, this shop is just too large...should have built a smaller space..."

10' workbench is about right. Think about adding a moveable workbench as well, as you can never have enough workspace.

How tall will this new shop be? We moved to acreage and I now have a 40x30 pole barn with 14' sides. I'm planning a loft/mezzanine in the last 10' spanning the entire width of the shop (30'). Will be able to store a lot of stuff up there, and keep vehicles and boat underneath. Even with a 1,200 sq/ft space, I'm still thinking about maximizing my floor area.

Don't skimp on lighting...think LED's.

 

[greg86z28]

I definitely know the go big as possible mantra!

Thanks for the pointer on the bench. Right now I have a 5' bench in the 22x27 garage that's getting taken down. I felt double that might be nice.

I was planning on 12' walls - I'd like to be ready for a 2 post lift in the next couple of years. Should I be going taller than 12' though? I'm 6' tall. I would be doing maintenance on our daily vehicles - but I figure that's only a couple jobs every year. I've also been using jackstands my whole life so pretty much anything will be an improvement.

Thanks,

Greg

You are thinking right to plan ahead! Go as big as you can. I've never heard anyone say, "Man, this shop is just too large...should have built a smaller space..."

10' workbench is about right. Think about adding a moveable workbench as well, as you can never have enough workspace.

How tall will this new shop be? We moved to acreage and I now have a 40x30 pole barn with 14' sides. I'm planning a loft/mezzanine in the last 10' spanning the entire width of the shop (30'). Will be able to store a lot of stuff up there, and keep vehicles and boat underneath. Even with a 1,200 sq/ft space, I'm still thinking about maximizing my floor area.

Don't skimp on lighting...think LED's.

 

[Deezler]

Definitely go 40' long if you want to store two vehicles end to end like that. Remember that pole barn dimensions are on the outside of the building - wait, pole barn or stick build? Girts/purlins and poles only subtract from pole barn specs on the inside dimensions. And we all inevitably pile stuff up against all the walls, further reducing room.

I built a 30x36 and can just barely park my GTI behind my pickup truck in the 36' length. I'm not too sad by this, as it wasn't my long-term plan for using the space, but here I am 3 years later still doing it. I was constrained by trees and underground electrical or else I would have tried to go 40' long on mine.

I like your layout overall. It's kinda hard to drive/park vehicles right up to the wall like that, though. Maybe by reversing into place you could.

Good luck! Too bad you had to wipe out a perfectly good (looking? maybe not in reality?) 2-car garage to build the new barn.

 

[greg86z28]

Good point. I'm going stick built so I'll lose some dimension because of the walls. I was thinking I could get dollys to get the cars parked tightly together like that over the winter.

The existing garage was pretty messed up. The floor was a 4" slab with no grade beam for the wall. It settled badly and the floor was pitched into the garage, so I'd get water running in anytime we had rain with wind from the south. The last straw was this winter when we got rain in Jan. I had about 2" of ice at the deepest spot in the back corner, covering about 1/4 of the floor area.

I thought about just fixing the floor, because the structure itself was decent - but the garage only had 9' ceilings and was just too small.

My concept for the layout is basically a copy of my friends 30x36 layout. I've been there many times and it seems to work really well for him and I feel like it would for me as well.

 

[Nick in WI]

Like most I vote go bigger. I know the two cars theoretically fit like that, but it is really tight, even in the 40' model. Rolling them around of dollies is fine in theory but I don't think you want it quite that tight. The cost to add a few feet is minimal since the cost of the end wall is fixed regardless of the length. No matter how big you go you'll always wish you went bigger but if you have the room I think 45 or 50 would allow you to comfortably double park and still have room for work benches and such. Also maybe consider going 4-6 feet wider. Storing the cars like that renders that left garage door virtually useless. It's much easier to spend someone else's money but if it were me and I was hoping for your layout I'd be looking at closer to 36x48 or there abouts. Then you could maybe add a smaller 8x9 door to the back of the right side wall for another easily accessible bay (similar to my avatar layout). It sounds like you're going to be staying there for a while so try to future proof it as much as possible since it is much cheaper to add a few yards of concrete and a truss or two now than to do an addition.

When mocking up your layout remember you're going to lose over a 1' to the walls. You also lose 4-6 inches of depth at the garage doors, figuring on 2 inch thick doors plus struts/hardware. It all adds up.

At 6' tall any lift will work fine and 12' will be enough for a 2 post lift although I do believe the common BendPak's 12'1" but there are a lot of good options under 12'.

 

[greg86z28]

Update - got stuff out of the way. New garage will sit further back (behind) the concrete slabs. I’m going to rip them out.

Also going bigger, something around 32x56.

Things are going a lot slower than expected. Been busy at work, a lot of cold rainy weather, and most importantly spending a lot of time with our new little guy! This might end up as a two summer project we’ll see.

 

[sublime68charger]

Good luck with the build!

Ant chance of a pic of the dart?

Okay even the Camaro if ya you want, I'm partial to Mopars but like the looks on 80 camaros as well!

 

[greg86z28]

I'll post up some pictures of the Dart this week. Here's a quick one from our wedding.



Did some soil testing today. Dug down to 12", 24" and 30". Looks like the first 12" is "loam". Once I get to about 24" it gets to be more clay.

Still waiting for all the stuff to separate out.

But based on what I see here, I'll likely need to do some serious excavating to get the black stuff out of there - likely 2' down. How much larger should my excavation and ground prep be compared to the slab. If I'm going 32x56 should the excavation and fill be 4' larger in each direction (36x60)?

 

[sublime68charger]

Nice pic of the dart!

The charger in my thread took the wife on first date in that car and was also in the wedding as well!

And all 3 kids fit in the trunk!

 

[greg86z28]

My dad is lending me his Kubota L3901 (40 hp size). It has a 60" bucket. However, this machine isn't the greatest at digging/excavating a large area of virgin soil - I think it would be a monumental task for this machine but I'm sure it could be done.

-What's the correct machine for excavating an area like this?
-How big of an area should I be excavating if the pad will be 32x56?

Thanks!

 

[greg86z28]

Got started last night. I'm excavating it myself and it's actually not going all that bad (truthfully it's fun). Here's about 1 hour and 45 minutes of work. I'm tiling, then scraping, then hauling away.

I'm just getting down to that clay base.

I need to move our fruit trees as well.

 

[sublime68charger]

are you having the cement done by a contractor or are you doing that part yourself as well?

Id talk to your cement guy about the excavating part and maybe you can get some tips or trick's.

to me it seems like your doing great but I know enough to know that I don't know enough to give you good advice on how your doing!

 

[DetachedGarage]

Got started last night. I'm excavating it myself and it's actually not going all that bad (truthfully it's fun). Here's about 1 hour and 45 minutes of work. I'm tiling, then scraping, then hauling away.

I'm just getting down to that clay base.

I need to move our fruit trees as well.

LOOKS LIKE PROGRESS!!! Can't wait to see this finished! I hear you on the slow going part. Still waiting for my land sale to go through.

Cheers to more Wisconsin Detached Garages

 

[greg86z28]

I’m going to form it up but only help for the pour itself. If I tried my hand at finishing it wouldn’t be good.

Ive been getting guidance and advice from two different concrete guys who I’m on a semi friends basis with.

 

[greg86z28]

Spent a few more hours working at it this weekend.

I've got a 30x60 area cleared. I need to move the fruit trees before I can continue.

I also ran into a old burn/junk pit. Need to dig down deeper in that spot to clear all that **** out of there. Make sense because I remember that being a slight low spot (from settling) on the surface before I started. It's got some organic **** in there (fence posts) so I just want to make sure I clear it all out and get to solid clay underneath.

I'm surprised how well the Kubota can handle this. I'm sure an excavator would be faster, but it's fun running the tractor and it sure does the job.

 

[wrenchguy]

If ur gonna heat it consider insulating the slab best u can.
Put heat in the floor too. Also consider "Minnesota" framed roof, i don't know if its the correct term but it was going around here 35 years ago. I used this method when framing my roof to achieve a wind break and desired insulation thickness above the rim plates. You can mess with work benches any time, consider making them mobile. I'd make everything mobile.
good luck with ur project.

 

[greg86z28]

Quick compaction question for GJ.

I'm scraping off about 2' of organic soil (black) and getting down to a tan/brown layer of clay. Does that virgin clay need to be compacted? Obviously my fill I'm laying on top the clay needs to be compacted (6" at a time using a plate compactor).

I'm wondering if running my plate compactor on the virgin clay is good enough? My research says plate compactors don't work well on clay.

 

[Deezler]

I would plate compact the clay if you can, yeah. I mean, its at least worth a shot and see how effective it is. Add a little water if its totally dry and/or not doing much. Clay is a good base in and of itself, it will hold up a slab nicely. Compacting it and more fill on top of it will make for a very solid slab base, I think. (note, non-professional opinion here. I own my own plate compactor and run it over just about every layer of every project I do, haha.)