Southbend Model C good deal?

[longlivepunk]

So I e-mailed this guy to ask about tooling, the stand, etc. but assuming that it's just what you see is what you get, what do you think of this lathe for $600?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/edmonton/south-bend/1052910778?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

EDIT: So after a bit of research, the Model C (as can be seen in the pictures) doesn't have the threading gear-box, or power longitudinal or cross feed. Not ideal by any means, but for a first lathe at home I could probably make-do until I could upgrade. I'm not seeing the original power-switch either, which isn't necessary but if I wanted to fix it up to hopefully make a profit on it someday that's something people would probably look for as it was a really charming switch.

 

[longlivepunk]

He posted some shots of the tooling, but to be honest most of it doesn't seem useful.

The next photo has what looks like a quick-change tool post? Never seen that style before though, and I don't see any other holders for it.

he also says it doesn't come with the stand (I wouldn't really want it anyways)

It's definitely not the perfect lathe for me, but small lathes don't come up for sale around here very often, and when they do people usually want big dollars for them.

 

[The Cobbler]

by no means an expert, but I think that's a bit high, and you're right, not much in the way of tooling.
I just bought a Standard Modern 13" swing with about 30" bed, 3 & 4 jaw chuck, several live centers, steady rest , 3 face plates and a box of quick change tool stuff and cutters that I haven't even gone thru for $2,000 inc.HST (13%) . it was converted from 3 phase to single phase somewhere along the line & whoever put the motor on put the pulley on backwards so I need to change that, but otherwise it's plug in & start using it .
not saying it's a smoking deal but just for a reference is all

 

[drivesitfar]

LLP: sorry i don't have all the answers to your questions because i have yet to buy a metal lathe myself. i have been doing a lot of research and listening the past 6 to 12 months and i'd say that one you are asking about is short on a lot of things. it's on the small side and for the money i'd rather spend 3 times that amount and get a lot bigger one with a lot of tooling.

since you say the smaller ones are not available have you looked at stepping up your price to see what you can get for $1500-2000?

if that price isn't in the cards right now, but those are more like what you like and can make room for just save up and keep looking until the timing is better. buying a small one that needs a lot of parts might cost you that much in the long run and not do half the things you'd like to do on one.

 

[Techie1961]

It's not a bad price and not a good price either. The tooling that he has seems to be mostly pieces of steel but there are some necessities in there as well. You will want to check to make sure that there aren't any damaged gears and the wear on the bed isn't too bad. I just sold a South Bend floor model and I got $950 for it after it listing for a while so it appears that the demand isn't too high for them.

 

[lilredex]

You ain't going to make much money later, at $600. Around here it would be more like a $3-400 lathe, if decent, with the accessories shown. Don't worry about it being a "C", the thing that is missing and would be nice are the threading gears....a good set runs $1-200. The lever on the apron is the engagement for power feed along the bed. There looks to be some gears hiding under that swing away cover to drive it.

A while back, I found two of those (an "A" and a "B"), from a school for $100, probably a once in a lifetime opportunity, though.

Lots of good SB info. here, and you can date it with the S/N too.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/

 

[longlivepunk]

by no means an expert, but I think that's a bit high, and you're right, not much in the way of tooling.
I just bought a Standard Modern 13" swing with about 30" bed, 3 & 4 jaw chuck, several live centers, steady rest , 3 face plates and a box of quick change tool stuff and cutters that I haven't even gone thru for $2,000 inc.HST (13%) . it was converted from 3 phase to single phase somewhere along the line & whoever put the motor on put the pulley on backwards so I need to change that, but otherwise it's plug in & start using it .
not saying it's a smoking deal but just for a reference is all

Thanks for the input, Cobbler. Guy says he's "Pretty firm" at $600, it does come with a few gears as well, but yeah the tooling is pretty scant. The main reason I'm still thinking about it is that it would be nice to have something soon that I could use for a few projects I'd like to do. I also work at a machine shop where I'm sure the manager would let me take some older tooling that we don't use there (oil-field shop, we don't use tools that are made for small machines, but we still have lots lying around) But it can be really difficult to get a chance to use their machines for your own projects.

LLP: sorry i don't have all the answers to your questions because i have yet to buy a metal lathe myself. i have been doing a lot of research and listening the past 6 to 12 months and i'd say that one you are asking about is short on a lot of things. it's on the small side and for the money i'd rather spend 3 times that amount and get a lot bigger one with a lot of tooling.

since you say the smaller ones are not available have you looked at stepping up your price to see what you can get for $1500-2000?

if that price isn't in the cards right now, but those are more like what you like and can make room for just save up and keep looking until the timing is better. buying a small one that needs a lot of parts might cost you that much in the long run and not do half the things you'd like to do on one.

Yeah, ideally I'd like a better lathe, and it'll happen someday. Just trying to decide if it's worth buying something to use in the meantime. If I can sell it for a profit or even break even later then it's not a bad idea, so I'm mulling that over.

 

[The Cobbler]

...Just trying to decide if it's worth buying something to use in the meantime. If I can sell it for a profit or even break even later then it's not a bad idea, so I'm mulling that over.

in that sense, even if you lost say $100, chalk it up to cost of having fun. and that way the pressure is off to buy something, gives you time to shop , and when you fall into the right deal, you can grab it.

 

[longlivepunk]

Thanks Techie1961 and lilredex. I told the guy I was going to think it over and I'd get back to him if I want to look at it. I've bought a few things with the idea of breaking-even on them when I'm finished with them, but not sure if I can justify $600 right now. With the down-turn in the industry right now and being in school it's a bit of a lean time, basically the rational part of my brain and the over-eager part are battling it out right now.

lilredex, sounds like that lever is to engage the half-nut which technically can be used as a power-feed, but it's meant for threading. I guess the A and B models had a real power-feed, which would be nice but isn't necessary by any means. Good to know you can get the threading gear-boxes for a decent price though, thanks!

 

[longlivepunk]

in that sense, even if you lost say $100, chalk it up to cost of having fun. and that way the pressure is off to buy something, gives you time to shop , and when you fall into the right deal, you can grab it.

Oooo Cobbler, an influence like you could get a guy into trouble!

 

[2oolhound]

Techie1961 I was salivating over your lathe for a while but shipping to the west coast held me back.

longlivepunk, I would wait for one something like techie's myself. Why start from the bottom of SB's line.

 

[mkat1951]

I was in the same situation as you and I eventually picked up an older Atlas lathe with power feed and a good amount of tooling for $400.00 here in Kelowna, BC. where hobby lathes don't ever seem to come up for sale. I'm glad I held out. $600.00 does seem a little steep to me.

 

[tdkkart]

in that sense, even if you lost say $100, chalk it up to cost of having fun. and that way the pressure is off to buy something, gives you time to shop , and when you fall into the right deal, you can grab it.

Using this perfectly valid logic I could give away all my machine tools today and not lose a dime. My first lathe lead to another, which then led to a milling machine, and now another lathe. I learned enough about machine work to help me qualify for the job I've held for the last 10 years. It also help me to enter into a rather successful stint in building go-kart racing engines.
If I did the math,I probably haven't made a lot of money WITH the machines, but I've certainly gained a lot FROM the machines.
I use one or more of these machines for just about every project I do in my shop. Nothing big lately, but there's always a hole to drill, or a spacer to make.

The lathe in question is certainly useable and worth having. While it'd be nice to get it for less than asking price, you won't get hurt at that price either.

 

[ar2stp48]

Not for $600. Biggest problem is the lathe lacks quick change gearbox; and I do not see the change gears in the photos of "tooling". Only two tool holders are shown--one on table and one on lathe. Part of a tool post holder, but no base. Only a three jaw chuck; is there a four jaw?

A lathe is not the major expense of metal turning; the tooling can exceed the initial price of a lathe easily and quickly

I would suggest and offer $350 or $400 I bought a 9" South Bend with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, quick change box and a lot of tooling, including a tool post holder and four holders for less than $500

 

[zkling]

I think they are both a bit over priced for what they are, condition and accessory wise.

 

[woody 73]

I can tell you that small lathes like yours go for big dollars in my part of the woods, funny because monster 3 phase heavy duty and very hard to move go for very cheap, as you can see why.

Don't worry about the price because you have a very nice lathe that you can learn on and in time when you need to buy a larger one you can sell it. What is the expensive part is the tooling that you will need to buy for it.

You got a great starter lathe...

 

[woody 73]

As I was telling you small ones go for big dollars in my area:

http://columbus.craigslist.org/tls/4861897513.html

 

[Kevin54]

The first two pictures, only one piece goes with the lathe and that is the dead center (the pointed piece) The first pic is jaws for a drill chuck, the second that has the center also has some guide pins for a die. The last two pics go along with the lathe but isn't anything special.

For $650. it seems a little high to me for what it is and looks a little rough. Plus you want to make sure that the compound is snug and not sloppy as can be.

 

[longlivepunk]

Haha it seems to be a pretty even split for opinions on this lathe. Both on here and off.

You weren't kidding, Woody. That lathe is really similar to the SB, but a bit smaller yet and he wants $800?

At the end of the day, around here people sell wood lathes of the same vintage for $400, and abused import lathes for a few thousand, so even though I think $600 is too high, it's not bad for here and I could probably break even on it when I sell it. That being said however, right now I shouldn't be spending money if I don't have to, so I'll let it sit for a while and if it stays up I'll see if he's willing to come down on price a bit. If I could get it any cheaper I think it would be a decent buy especially since I could get a fair bit of tooling for free. Thanks again for all the input, guys. If I do decide to go see it I'll keep you up to date!

-Eric

EDIT:
Kevin54, yeah that tooling seems pretty ridiculous. I think there are a couple of mandrels, but unless you're making what the guy who used them was those are useless. The one dead center looks WAY too big to be used on this thing as well. The guy who owns it right now bought it thinking he'd use it, and never did. It sounds like he knows as much about lathes as I know about ballet slippers. I do know a bit about checking out lathes, and if need be I have 3 machinists in my neighborhood who all work at or are retired from the local University who all owe me favors. I'm sure someone would be happy to come check it over with me. Thanks for the input!!

 

[sasquatch12]

Ok, as i have seen posted so many times on these forums, location makes a BIG difference in price. Around N. E. Ontario where i am, that lathe would sell at that price i'm sure. But as posted, you are not getting much with it, and to buy the main missing items you may need won;t be real cheap. It just appears to me to be just grubby, a good clean up should clean it up much better. I'd be carefull to check also for wear on the bed and slop in the carriage and half nut etc. So much depends on what you plan to use it for.

 

[Techie1961]

... basically the rational part of my brain and the over-eager part are battling it out right now.

I wish I had a rational part to my brain. ... when it comes to tool purchases.

 

[Tim338]

The quick change gear box isn't a problem but lack of change gears is. Although they are easy to find they would set you back around $200-250. Add that to the price of the lathe and it isn't such a good deal. I wouldn't pay more than $350-400 for that machine.

 

[bczygan]

The moment you spend your last $600 on it, an ad will appear for a model A with little wear, long bed, thread dial, taper attachment, QCTP, hand lever collet closer, nose protector, micrometer stop, steady rest and drill chucks......All for $400!

Calm down and widen your search in time and geography.

I just picked up a model A for $250. It did need a bull and back gear, and a complete strip and rebuild. But it had a hand lever collet closer and a thread dial and 3 and 4 jaw chucks.

And those big 3 phase lathes are a deal. Get a VFD and go to the Yahoo Groups South Bend Lathe group for info on how to disassemble and move them.

Also, get the book and rebuild kit off EBay for your model. Every SB lathe owner needs to have those items.

Bill (3 SB lathes)

 

[jz2delta]

In addition to the 600 for the lathe, you're looking at hundreds of additional $$ to get it up to par. with that in mind, it might make sense to spend a bit more time searching for a more complete package. I just bought a fully functional SB C model with the 3' bed in Los Angeles for 450. It had very little in the way of tools, but I knew the machines history - at least back 30 years, so it seemed like a good choice. I'm not keeping track of all the additional money I'm spending. If I did i would realize it was a passion rather than logical purchase.

 

[sailah]

Not a chance for $600. I'd rather stake out an industrial auction and pick up a used Clausing with 2 chucks, steady, QC gearbox and a QCTP for $1000. Add in a VFD and you have a lathe you'll never need to upgrade. <-----haha funny I said never need to upgrade...ha

That tooling is pretty worthless really in my opinion. A four jaw is mandatory in my usage, same with a steady rest. Price those out and all of a sudden it's not a good deal.

I used to live in Pittsburgh and around there auctions would have more 13-16" swing lathes than you could trip over for less than a grand and tooled up with the important stuff. HSS tooling and dead centers are easy to find anywhere. All you need to do is get over the three phase hump and find a trailer big enough to haul it.

On the other hand I tend to buy tools that are way overkill so maybe my advice isn't the best!