Southern Engineering Needed (Pictures)

[ITSANSS]

Need some advice from ya'll...

As some of ya'll may already know, I'm wanting to convert two single garage doors to one double.

My dad has taken a few pictures that didn't really turn out that well. He took three to make a panoramic shot, but the horizon is way, way off.

I'm gonna post some pictures below of what I have, and I know they are not very good at all and I'll wind up having to take some different ones, but you can at least get the idea, I think.

What we're thinkin' is that we'll have to run an I-beam from the pillar at the wall to the pillar next to the second door. Each truss has a pillar coming down to the ground for support, including the one in between the two single doors. Also, because of the extremely low ceiling, the I-beam will have to run inside the trusses. That is, if I'm picturing the size beam right that this is going to take to do.

Because the trusses have angle iron, we think that we can rest the I-beam on either end (the wall truss and the second door truss, since they'll still have pillars down to the ground), bolt and/or weld them down and then run the beam through the center truss where the pillar is being removed and bolt and/or weld to the truss itself.

Basically, instead of a "traditional" beam going under the truss, this one will be going through and being "pulled up" rather than being "pushed up". If the beam is attached properly and the right kind of I-beam (a quite strong one) is used, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I think the two pillars that will be holding three trusses will be plenty strong as the shop ain't all that big. It's a 20' x 60'. So, there's not TOO much weight just on one little truss, therefore, two pillars'll work!!! *I hope*

Wall truss where I-beam will be attached. Pillar will be holding the weight of one and a half trusses, essentially.

Center pillar that will be removed to accommodate double door. I-beam will run through the truss and attached by means of bolts and/or welds.

Non-wall truss where I-beam will be attached. Pillar will be holding the weight of one and a half trusses, essentially.



Also, does anyone know of a place that'll look at schematics and stuff for free and/or tell me what I'd need to do and get to be able to do this? I've read about a few places that a person can take plans (professional or not) and for free they work up what needs to be done, etc. for wood applications. I wonder if a steel place would do something like that for me...


Thanks!

 

[Hank McMauser]

I'd say take a pretty good sketch(please not one made on a bar napkin,although I've known some salsman to do a pretty accurate takeoffs on bar napkins before) go into your nearest lumberyard,no don't take it to home depot, I said a lumberyard. Look to see who is supplying the house packages in new construction & take it to them, someone there will be able to size up a beam, if you're looking for steel take it to a steel supply house. Preferably the same supply house the builders mentioned above are sourcing their fitch plates and basement beams from.

 

[RossABQ]

I would spend a few bucks and have a structural engineer look at it, and design the connections and beam needed. In the long run he may be able to save you money by "right-sizing" the beam needed.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Coming from a Southern Micky Mouse artist who loves to push limits, this one needs to be looked at by a structural engineer. You will need to modify the end connection of the center truss as well as provide a seat for it to bear on the beam. This is placing a point load at the worst place in the beam (the center) and you will more than likely need a stiffener on both side (at a minimum) in the beam.

The same problem exists (in a slightly different connection) on the outside wall and at the proposed end of your beam. Someone needs to check the sizes of the existing members, the loads they support and how to safely modify what you have. At these two locations, the end connection of the truss will need to be modified, a seat added to the column for the beam (inducing an eccentric load into it) plus provide a seat for the truss on the beam.

More than likely, the existing steel is either A36 or A572-50 but to be safe, use the values for A36.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

As an architect I see these type of structural dilemma all the time. A structural engineer will save you time and money. I would expect if you provide him some decent sketches of the building and the eave / column detail, with dimensions That way he should be able to do everything without leaving his office. Should take a hour or two to solve and prepare some quickie sketches. My S.E. is 125/hr and keeps me from having any doubts about the performance of the finished work.

Nothing wrong with you doing alittle homework and suggesting to him how the solution could go together. That will save you money.

It looks like from the pictures theres a decent amount of space from the top of the door to the underside of the rafters, which is good. Looks like you could get an engineered wood beam directly in the plane of the exterior wall and under the rafters. Something like a parallel strand beam with appropriately sized post at each end When placed it the load plane it will be loaded in a way that it will not want to twist, as it would if mounted to the interior of the wall. Which could be done as well, but probably require being done in steel. Since I don't know what makes up the foundation you might need to address that also. Other factors that will influence the size of the beam are existing dead load, live design loads for your part of the world i.e. snow, and wind (uplift) to name a few.

 

[mobetta]

how wide is the new door, and how far apart are the truss'?

 

[Torque1st]

Some steel fabrication shops have structural engineers on staff. They can spec out a solution and deliver it.

 

[ITSANSS]

Right on, ya'll. I like the sound of this!

Dad and I did a rough sketch in Microsoft PowerPoint. We also have a schematic of the whole shop that's in scale using Microsoft Visual Studio, I'll take that as well.

I see two places here in town that look promising. I'll give 'em both a ring tomorrow (hopefully) to see what we can work out.

mobetta, The new door will be roughly 20' long by 7' tall. The trusses are roughly 10' apart currently. So, after the middle pillar is taken out, it will be roughly 20' from pillar to pillar holding three trusses that are 10' apart. The size of everything in this shop seems to be not rounded off. Like the shop is a 20' x 60', but when measured out, it's a few inches shy here and there. I reckon maybe the very outside of the walls is what makes up those three or four inches that would make it an even number...? Is this normal?

I'd imagine that the new beam that'll go across the three trusses will have to steel. But I reckon it could be wood. Perhaps with a steel sleeve on it in the middle or somethin'? I don't know, hopefully we shall soon see.

Want to hear somethin' funny? I'd never once thought it of, but my dad mentioned this to me. I could actually do TWO double doors here. This shop at one point had five single doors. An office/break room (which I'm keepin', by the way) was made up and the door on the end got made into a man door, the door next to that got boarded up and windowed in, the one next to that is still there (the one I was plannin' on keepin' single and adding an opener to it and parking my daily driver there), and the fourth and fifth doors are the ones that I've been plannin' to convert to a double this whole time.

See this here:

These used to be two more single doors. I'm keepin' the man door (well, it's a window right now, but it used to be a door and will be once again soon).

The window can come out and I can put a double door here and where the single door is next to it.

And this here...:

Two double doors, baby! The single door that is by itself with the window next to it is the exact same dimensions as the two singles on the end. What will work on one end'll work on the other. It's brilliant!

P.S. That's me standin' in the shop, waving, asking if you want a beer.

Thanks so much for the input thus far!!!!