Space heaters to run off generator help

[PCustoms]

With a small amount of electrical knowledge, you can run a standard home furnace off of non-inverter generator.

I stood over my daughter, supervising her, while she wired a plug on to her furnace. The furnace had electronic controls and an electronic thermostat. It worked perfectly !


Segue : Non-inverter generator get a bad rap about "dirty power". Sure you do NOT want to plug a load in until it has run for the first few minutes of starting (except maybe an incandescent light bulb or an old fashion "milk house" heater).

The one type of generator that DOES produce crappy power is a brushless generator. Stay far away from them.

Completely useless, as the OP doesn't have a furnace.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Exactly what I was thinking.

They DON'T emit carbon monoxide when they are working correctly.

Many now come with built in CO detectors and will shut themselves off if they detect high levels.

Moisture in the house really isn't a big deal for temporary use.

Any non-vented propane heater will create moisture. Whether it is an issue depends on home much propane is used, if there is another source of (dry) heat and ventilation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Completely useless, as the OP doesn't have a furnace.

... and possibly even this small house when power goes out and temps drop

That statement implies that the solution MIGHT be used in a building with a furnace !

 

[PCustoms]

That statement implies that the solution MIGHT be used in a building with a furnace !

Wrong again

What heats the house when the power is on?

A standard heat pump. I’m not sure I’m able to find a big enough generator to push it though. I see guys online talking about a 5kw or 7kw generator handling the startup amps of their HVAC but I always thought you had to have a bigger 12kw+ generator to handle the inrush current based on my calculations. If anyone here has an HVAC running off their 5kw or 7kw generator I’m all ears. I think mine is on either a 50a or 60a breaker. Haven’t measured the inrush current on it yet.

 

[Razorhunter]

Yes guys I have a heat pump. Atlanta GA. Temps are mild as compared to up north but many winters get down to the teens or low 20’s and while it may be for a short period of time, the power often goes out and leaves us in need. I swear the power never used to go out as often as it does nowadays. I’m trying to find the best short term and long term solution to this. Ultimately, I will have a wood burning stove but that’s not happening quite yet. The big hard wired generators also require a huge fuel storage so that also is not happening yet. This is why my first thought was a couple 5k-6500w generators and some simple space heaters might do the trick. There is also no fireplace here as someone before me decided to do away with it and the chimney got removed from attic up. One day I will likely frame it back up.

I’m just sick of the power going out for 2-3 days at times in the absolute freezing temps and being caught without a solution. There was also a time last year the board in the condenser went out and I didn’t have a spare on hand and that also left us freezing for two nights.
If I trusted myself to buy the right old used wood burning stove currently, I’d go buy one immediately but there seems to be more research I need to do on this topic. I get the feeling not all wood stoves are created equal and I just don’t know what to buy yet. I want to find the right stove, used and affordable. There are many on the second hand market. Always open to new and better ideas. Anyhow, I am actually leaning toward the soft starter solution to making a 5kw generator power the central AC. That seems to be the best solution for the time being. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[PoorUB]

That I cannot tell you. I can repair these things but I’m not an HVAC tech. Basically I had an HVAC tech tell me that if it’s popping the cap yearly then it’s likely because it’s slightly undersized. Take that FWIW I suppose.

Undersized would cause the unit to run longer. My bet it is oversized and short cycling, on and off often.

Long runtime would be easier on the cap than restarting often.

3.5 ton in 1,500 sqft seems way oversized me.

 

[ToolsRCool]

Going slightly tangent, gasoline generators do rip through fuel. That may work and be OK, but it is troublesome to store in quantity, fill the unit often, they are hot, loud (3600rpm), and the local gas station may be out of power as well to easily get more.

One of the best things I did was on this topic was to buy a used construction site light tower. Super robust, quiet, and efficient liquid cooled Kubota diesel, coupled to an 8kW gen head, runs 1800rpm. Burns 3gal per 24hrs lightly loaded, has a 40g integrated fuel tank, weatherproof cover, on its own trailer. Diesel fuel is an oil so it does not go stale as well. Paid $1,000 for it off eBay. We ran it 4 days continuous and slept no problem with it right outside our window. Relating point here, it was able to easily start and run our 4 channel 3 ton mini-split A/C unit(s), with other things running as well. Brushless gen head on it, zero issue.

If I was you, I would just get one of those, and run your primary heat pump during an outage. No ceramic or oil heaters, no storing lots of 5g jugs of gasoline and rotating them every 6 months or whatever, sell the gasoline generators during the next outage.

If you wanted to get really crafty, you could buy one of those under-seat school bus heaters where it is a heater core and fan combined, and have that on quick-connects to the genset cooling system. Totally not needed.

Diesel is the way to go for generators, and they can be had for cheap. Several of my neighbors had me acquire them the same after witnessing mine in action for days and I never touched or refueled it. Allmand NL-5000 is the one I bought. It is 8kW, as where most are 6kW. Their Pro model is also 8kW. I sawed the light tower off to reduce its size.

 

[theoldwizard1]

There is also no fireplace here as someone before me decided to do away with it and the chimney got removed from attic up. One day I will likely frame it back up.

It is very unusual that a home with a heat pump does NOT have a built in secondary heat source !

If your house has a basement, I would install a vented "wall furnace" even if you had to run a stainless chimney up the outside of the house,

 

[theoldwizard1]

Guys I’m just trying to obtain the best equipment I possibly can to stay warm for a period of several days up to even a week when the power goes out. I don’t have a wood burning stove or other fuel/gas source.

If you plan on heating your home with a gasoline or diesel generator for even just a couple of days, you are going to need probably 4 or 5, 5 gallon cans of fuel on hand all of the time.

Got a safe place to store that ? Also, be prepared to "rotate" your fuel supply !

Depending on the size of the house and how good the insulation is 2, maybe 3, 2000W generators and the same number if oil-filled heaters, may be a viable solution. Be prepared to refill the every 3-6 hours.

Maybe it is time for a whole house generator and a LP tank.

 

[mike93lx]

Going slightly tangent, gasoline generators do rip through fuel. That may work and be OK, but it is troublesome to store in quantity, fill the unit often, they are hot, loud (3600rpm), and the local gas station may be out of power as well to easily get more.

One of the best things I did was on this topic was to buy a used construction site light tower. Super robust, quiet, and efficient liquid cooled Kubota diesel, coupled to an 8kW gen head, runs 1800rpm. Burns 3gal per 24hrs lightly loaded, has a 40g integrated fuel tank, weatherproof cover, on its own trailer. Diesel fuel is an oil so it does not go stale as well. Paid $1,000 for it off eBay. We ran it 4 days continuous and slept no problem with it right outside our window. Relating point here, it was able to easily start and run our 4 channel 3 ton mini-split A/C unit(s), with other things running as well. Brushless gen head on it, zero issue.

If I was you, I would just get one of those, and run your primary heat pump during an outage. No ceramic or oil heaters, no storing lots of 5g jugs of gasoline and rotating them every 6 months or whatever, sell the gasoline generators during the next outage.

If you wanted to get really crafty, you could buy one of those under-seat school bus heaters where it is a heater core and fan combined, and have that on quick-connects to the genset cooling system. Totally not needed.

Diesel is the way to go for generators, and they can be had for cheap. Several of my neighbors had me acquire them the same after witnessing mine in action for days and I never touched or refueled it. Allmand NL-5000 is the one I bought. It is 8kW, as where most are 6kW. Their Pro model is also 8kW. I sawed the light tower off to reduce its size.

I have absolutely no need for one of these, but always thought one would be great to have. $1k seems like a hell of a deal

 

[Razorhunter]

Going slightly tangent, gasoline generators do rip through fuel. That may work and be OK, but it is troublesome to store in quantity, fill the unit often, they are hot, loud (3600rpm), and the local gas station may be out of power as well to easily get more.

One of the best things I did was on this topic was to buy a used construction site light tower. Super robust, quiet, and efficient liquid cooled Kubota diesel, coupled to an 8kW gen head, runs 1800rpm. Burns 3gal per 24hrs lightly loaded, has a 40g integrated fuel tank, weatherproof cover, on its own trailer. Diesel fuel is an oil so it does not go stale as well. Paid $1,000 for it off eBay. We ran it 4 days continuous and slept no problem with it right outside our window. Relating point here, it was able to easily start and run our 4 channel 3 ton mini-split A/C unit(s), with other things running as well. Brushless gen head on it, zero issue.

If I was you, I would just get one of those, and run your primary heat pump during an outage. No ceramic or oil heaters, no storing lots of 5g jugs of gasoline and rotating them every 6 months or whatever, sell the gasoline generators during the next outage.

If you wanted to get really crafty, you could buy one of those under-seat school bus heaters where it is a heater core and fan combined, and have that on quick-connects to the genset cooling system. Totally not needed.

Diesel is the way to go for generators, and they can be had for cheap. Several of my neighbors had me acquire them the same after witnessing mine in action for days and I never touched or refueled it. Allmand NL-5000 is the one I bought. It is 8kW, as where most are 6kW. Their Pro model is also 8kW. I sawed the light tower off to reduce its size.

Yes this is something I’ve also considered. I’ve got plenty of gas and rotate it regularly already but I also do that with diesel as well. If I can score a diesel gen at good price like that I may go that route now that you’ve got me thinking about it. My days of chasing used machinery such as mills and lathes and all the machine shop stuff are kind of over but maybe I could make an exception to find a light pole at auction or find one locally. Come to think of it, every time I pass one on the road sitting there running for days, I want one in a bad way. I was only considering the Honda 5k-6500’s because I have one on hand and can easily score another but I’ll def look into the diesel. I honestly didn’t realize they were that much more fuel efficient. I figured they were at least 6gal a night at best.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Look at the wattage. 1500 watts is 1500 watts doesn't matter the size or price of the unit.

Yes I’m aware Sir. And I’m not really having sizing or power requirement issues.

I think his point was that there's really not much difference in small electric space heaters, except for how much you pay for them. They all put out the same amount of heat, the cheapest milkhouse heaters you can find will work just as well as the 'deluxe' heaters that cost $200. There's no sense in paying a premium for a fancier enclosure or more pushbuttons.

Amazon sells milkhouse heaters for around $30, if you have a Menards or Fleet Farm nearby they have them for around $20. Even better, if you live in a metro area chances are you can find space heaters in good working condition at yard sales or estate sales, or even for free sitting out at the curb with the trash (at the end of the month when renters move out is a prime time for finding them at the curb). I have a half dozen of them, mostly found for free or for a few dollars each at a yard sale.

Some years ago my furnace decided to quit on a -20F night, but with all of them plugged in and distributed around the house I was able to keep the interior temp at around 50F until the furnace repair guy came the next day.

 

[dcg9381]

They DON'T emit carbon monoxide when they are working correctly. Carbon monoxide is a result of incomplete combustion. You should have a CO detector though. They DO consume oxygen inside the house. Most all the new ones have a low oxygen sensor. A window cracked open can solve this issue.

These have Oxygen Depletion Sensors (ODS). They are somehow mechanical. No power is needed.

 

[Razorhunter]

Anyone here ever heard of American Fab generators? Amfabsc.com. Not a ton of info online about them but apparently made in U.S. I have an opportunity to buy one and wanted to ask here.

 

[Razorhunter]

 

[ToolsRCool]

Yes this is something I’ve also considered. I’ve got plenty of gas and rotate it regularly already but I also do that with diesel as well. If I can score a diesel gen at good price like that I may go that route now that you’ve got me thinking about it. My days of chasing used machinery such as mills and lathes and all the machine shop stuff are kind of over but maybe I could make an exception to find a light pole at auction or find one locally. Come to think of it, every time I pass one on the road sitting there running for days, I want one in a bad way. I was only considering the Honda 5k-6500’s because I have one on hand and can easily score another but I’ll def look into the diesel. I honestly didn’t realize they were that much more fuel efficient. I figured they were at least 6gal a night at best.

All good. I'll drop a few pics of it when I get home. I can see not wanting the whole trailer thing, even though it is small, same size as the tiny Harbor Freight trailer. My initial plan was to just harvest the power pack out of it to mount on a shelf in the garage with the exhaust going through the wall. But then after seeing how compact it was all put together, the large fuel tank being part of it, and already being portable on a trailer, I left it.

They are totally efficient and quiet. A gasoline unit can't compare. I used to run Honda gensets only, for the quality and that a genuine Honda generator (not just Honda powered) has a generator-specific large volume muffler to drop the noise more, vs a Honda powered genset of another maker will typically use the utility muffler that the Honda utility engines comes with, which is 1/3 the size.

We used to be considerate to neighbors and shut the Honda off at midnight, then restart it the next morning. Now with the diesel, nobody even knows it is running and we don't shut it off at night. They just keep saying they think the power is back on because our house is quietly lit up. We are not even in a hurry to monitor if utility power has been restored, the diesel runs the entire house without having to be careful of loads and she'll go for longer than a week before refueling.....all for $1,000.

I still buy, service, and resell good clean Honda units as a hobby for half the price of new ones, but I don't personally use them anymore. Only advice on any off-brand generators like from Costco, etc, is to make sure parts are available, and not just spark plugs and oil filters. Things like valve cover gaskets, governor springs, voltage regulators, etc.........

 

[Razorhunter]

All good. I'll drop a few pics of it when I get home. I can see not wanting the whole trailer thing, even though it is small, same size as the tiny Harbor Freight trailer. My initial plan was to just harvest the power pack out of it to mount on a shelf in the garage with the exhaust going through the wall. But then after seeing how compact it was all put together, the large fuel tank being part of it, and already being portable on a trailer, I left it.

They are totally efficient and quiet. A gasoline unit can't compare. I used to run Honda gensets only, for the quality and that a genuine Honda generator (not just Honda powered) has a generator-specific large volume muffler to drop the noise more, vs a Honda powered genset of another maker will typically use the utility muffler that the Honda utility engines comes with, which is 1/3 the size.

We used to be considerate to neighbors and shut the Honda off at midnight, then restart it the next morning. Now with the diesel, nobody even knows it is running and we don't shut it off at night. They just keep saying they think the power is back on because our house is quietly lit up. We are not even in a hurry to monitor if utility power has been restored, the diesel runs the entire house without having to be careful of loads and she'll go for longer than a week before refueling.....all for $1,000.

I still buy, service, and resell good clean Honda units as a hobby for half the price of new ones, but I don't personally use them anymore. Only advice on any off-brand generators like from Costco, etc, is to make sure parts are available, and not just spark plugs and oil filters. Things like valve cover gaskets, governor springs, voltage regulators, etc.........

What would you say are the most important spare parts to keep on hand for the Honda generators are? Other than carb rebuild kit and filters of course.

 

[ToolsRCool]

What would you say are the most important spare parts to keep on hand for the Honda generators are? Other than carb rebuild kit and filters of course.

On a genuine Honda, actually not much. Of all the ones I have done, I've actually never even bought a carb kit. Just ultrasonic clean them with Extreme Simple Green aircraft aluminum cleaner, and they work perfect. Need to be sure to remove the pilot jet plug under the idle speed adjustment screw when cleaning.

My only recommendations would be maybe a spare AVR (voltage regulator).

On fuel, I recommend run the generator on 100LL airplane fuel if you are able to easily obtain such from a local municipal airport. With a generator, it is even worse than a seasonal engine, you never know when is the next time you will run it, so it can sit for years before being needed. 100LL does have a small amount of lead in it, so don't point the exhaust at your face, but otherwise it is an amazing fuel that never spoils, unlike conventional gasoline (including ethanol-free "rec" fuel).

Otherwise, if conventional gasoline is the only reasonable option, run double the recommended amount of Stabil in the fuel (per label instructions), use the fuel shut off lever to stop the generator, then use the drain plug on the carb bowl at the end of each usage.

They are great units and will run for a very long time.

 

[mike93lx]

On fuel, I recommend run the generator on 100LL airplane fuel

 

[CTyankee]

These work great...and you could keep the battery charged with a small solar panel

https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Control-Parking-Heating-Trailer/dp/B0DFP5626T/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[lazyriverrat]

I don't know if a large propane tank is an option? As a power company employee, I would look into a gas fireplace with a modest sized dual fuel generator. Getting a huge generator will burn through a ton of fuel. Natural gas may also be an option with a tri-fuel generator. All electric is nice but it does present some hurdles when you need to generate your own power.
If you are set on small 1500 w heaters, 1500 watts is 1500 watts. Don't over think it. Just get to Walmart and grab what they have.

 

[dscheidt]

Look at the wattage. 1500 watts is 1500 watts doesn't matter the size or price of the unit.

If the 1500 W heater can actually put out those 1500 W, sure.

A lot of the oil filled radiator types are 1500 watts, but unless they're used in a very cold space, they have a overheat sensor that almost always will throttle them back to the low setting (or medium) setting. In already pretty warm space, like a cold bedroom in a heated house, that's probably okay. You don't need the whole 1500 watts to keep the room a couple degrees warmer, but having it available means you can get there faster. But in a cold space you want all those watts, and don't get them.

 

[CTyankee]

I don't know if a large propane tank is an option? As a power company employee, I would look into a gas fireplace with a modest sized dual fuel generator. Getting a huge generator will burn through a ton of fuel. Natural gas may also be an option with a tri-fuel generator. All electric is nice but it does present some hurdles when you need to generate your own power.
If you are set on small 1500 w heaters, 1500 watts is 1500 watts. Don't over think it. Just get to Walmart and grab what they have.

Agree...and I'll again suggest a "Chinese" diesel heater over running a generator to power a space heater. Even being a well known safe, reliable, fuel stingy, battery powered and simple form of producing heat, I'm amazed there are folks that won't/don't entertain the possibly of running such a system for some of their heating needs.

As to electric "space" heaters..Your comment about them is spot on but seems to go over some peoples head in regards to them. Besides any circulation boost from a fan, 1500 watts is 1500 watts no matter the looks or the style.

 

[dcg9381]

100LL is probably better than ethanol free. If you look at it's "required spec" it's designed to sit for a long time and most of the indications are that it's "shelf life" is very conservative. I've never had any issues with plug fouling or improper carb mixture with it, at least not in generator engine applications. It's easy to get if you live by a general aviation airport. Here I can roll up and pump it with a credit card.

 

[mike93lx]

I've never had any issues with plug fouling or improper carb mixture with it

I've never had a problem with E10, either. Generators, snowblowers, lawnmowers

 

[dcg9381]

I've never had a problem with E10, either. Generators, snowblowers, lawnmowers

It'll foul carbs more frequently (yes, you should always drain them) and can't be stored as long. In 2-stroke applications, E10 greatly decreases the life of fuel lines, primer bulbs... I just retune the 2-stroke stuff for 100LL and get a lot more time before I have to replace the rubber bits. I'm also at the local airport a lot, so that's a factor. You can do it with E10/E15, non-ethanol is better, 100LL is the least worry. Just my opinion.

 

[ToolsRCool]

It'll foul carbs more frequently (yes, you should always drain them) and can't be stored as long. In 2-stroke applications, E10 greatly decreases the life of fuel lines, primer bulbs... I just retune the 2-stroke stuff for 100LL and get a lot more time before I have to replace the rubber bits. I'm also at the local airport a lot, so that's a factor. You can do it with E10/E15, non-ethanol is better, 100LL is the least worry. Just my opinion.

Love 100LL. 0% ethanol, and a natural fit to seasonal engines. Can crank up after 10 years of sitting. With a generator, you never know when is the next time it will be used. Could be years out. Carb drain is great, but not many are going to drain the tank.

 

[mike93lx]

Love 100LL. 0% ethanol, and a natural fit to seasonal engines. Can crank up after 10 years of sitting. With a generator, you never know when is the next time it will be used. Could be years out. Carb drain is great, but not many are going to drain the tank.

If you don't run your generator for years, you are asking for it to make no power when the engine fires up. That's a bad idea. Thus is why super long term storage fuel isn't my concern... I have to run the genny at least annually anyway

 

[CTyankee]

If you don't run your generator for years, you are asking for it to make no power when the engine fires up. That's a bad idea. Thus is why super long term storage fuel isn't my concern... I have to run the genny at least annually anyway

Anyone depending on a generator in an emergency situation should follow that advice...and it should be under load too.

 

[ipgenie]

We remodeled our basement a few years ago and decided to install a propane fireplace. It can run without grid power (circulation fans don't run in that case). It will fully heat most of the house when running, one room upstairs stays pretty cold but still gets some heat. . We don't use it much but I do fire it up a few times every winter and give it a good burn to make sure it's ready if needed. Something like that could be an option if you are OK with adding a gas supply to your home. Even a few portable tanks could get you through an emergency and propane wouldn't be a problem to store.

 

[lazyriverrat]

Agree...and I'll again suggest a "Chinese" diesel heater over running a generator to power a space heater. Even being a well known safe, reliable, fuel stingy, battery powered and simple form of producing heat, I'm amazed there are folks that won't/don't entertain the possibly of running such a system for some of their heating needs.

As to electric "space" heaters..Your comment about them is spot on but seems to go over some peoples head in regards to them. Besides any circulation boost from a fan, 1500 watts is 1500 watts no matter the looks or the style.

I find myself trying to come up with scenarios where I "need" to get a diesel heater,

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I feel fortunate to have NG and single circuit transfer switch to run my furnace, sump pump, and power vent (gas) water heater with my camping generator (2KW).

For the OP, this is one of those things that only you can know how much you are willing to spend to fix it.

If my power was off 2 or 3 days a year (or more), I'd have a standby generator and NG or a 500 gallon propane tank....but that's just where I am right now. My power company (Duke) has actually been remarkably reliable. It's been years since I've had a power outage that lasted longer than a couple of hours. So, (like I suggested to the OP) I've had to consider "how much am I willing to spend" and the answer was "about $500"....which is what I spent for a single circuit transfer switch ($100) and a Wen (Yamaha Clone) 2KW inverter generator.