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Spade Terminals & AC

Spudland_Dave

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Probably a simple/stupid question, but rather check with people who know before doing anything stupid....

Is it OK to use Spade terminals on AC? And are there special terminals for use with AC? I'm guessing it's fine as I got a new take off 6' piece of 10ga SOOW wire a while back to use on my compressor and it had factory installed ring terminals on one end.

What I'm thinking is it would be easier to put spade terminals on the 10ga SOOW to hook to my 30A Breaker vs try to get the wires under the plate which is really meant for solid wire....
 
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soj

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Spade terminals are used lots inside AC powered equipment. But I am not so sure about what you are proposing to do.

Are you talking about a circuit breaker that has a captive square washer under the head of a terminal screw? Or is it more like a lug type terminal, with the screw pressing on the center of the wire?

You could twist the fine strands together and solder them to make a solid wire end. Don't know if that would meet code, or UL approval for the CB terminal, but I bet a spade terminal doesn't either.:dunno:

Another option is a short piece of 10 GA solid or stranded to go in the CB terminal wire nutted to the SOOW.

Just my random thoughts, I defer to the electricians here.
jp
 

Zeke

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Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
I'd rather have something bolted or screwed than a slip fit when it comes to compressor loads. I also don't know what you mean as breakers are suited for both stranded and solid wire. So you must be on the compressor side here.

Vibration?
 

Norcal

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Just don't buy them at a auto parts house, UL or other recognized listing agency connectors are needed.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Modesto, CA
Norcal beat me to it but I will add to that.

The following are common questions to consider when someone asks if such and such product can be used in an electrical system:

Is it U/L listed?
" " rated for the application?
" " rated for the type of metal its connected to (CU only, AL/CU, etc.)?
" " rated for the utilization voltage? (Just the reason why NORCAL mentioned not to use automotive connectors, which are rated for 12v!)
What type of crimper will be used and does the crimp make a good connection?(dont use a crapy crimping tool!)

Yes, as SOJ suggested, solder can be used if it is listed and rated for the application!

For your reading pleasure in regards to terminal connections and code, read 110.14, (a), (b), and (c).
 
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Spudland_Dave

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Is it U/L listed?
" " rated for the application?
" " rated for the type of metal its connected to (CU only, AL/CU, etc.)?
" " rated for the utilization voltage? (Just the reason why NORCAL mentioned not to use automotive connectors, which are rated for 12v!)
What type of crimper will be used and does the crimp make a good connection?(dont use a crapy crimping tool!)

Are they individually marked? I don't typically buy junk connectors, BUT...I always take them out of the package and throw them into my "Connector Organizer Thingie"...so only the lord knows exactly what brand/model/rating each connector is.

But thanks for the answers...I suspected the answer was more then just a simple "no problem" or "absolutely not"..
Looks like these are rated for 600v...doesn't say AC or DC.. if these would work I'll pick some up tomorrow on my way into work:
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/60067?searchMode=productSearch&zipcode=&filterByStore=&filterByVendingMachine=
 
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Spudland_Dave

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Spade terminals are used lots inside AC powered equipment. But I am not so sure about what you are proposing to do.

Are you talking about a circuit breaker that has a captive square washer under the head of a terminal screw? Or is it more like a lug type terminal, with the screw pressing on the center of the wire?

You could twist the fine strands together and solder them to make a solid wire end. Don't know if that would meet code, or UL approval for the CB terminal, but I bet a spade terminal doesn't either.:dunno:

Another option is a short piece of 10 GA solid or stranded to go in the CB terminal wire nutted to the SOOW.

Just my random thoughts, I defer to the electricians here.
jp


Long story short, I've got a Square D QO series shutoff mounted on the wall for my compressor...I will be changing the "shutoff switch" over to a 30A Breaker so I can use the 10GA SOOW I already have on the compressor..the issue with the 30A Breaker is it has the captive square washers as you mentioned. While I haven't attempted to do it yet, The 10ga SOOW wire doesn't look like it will fit nicely under that terminal. It may go just fine, I don't know...I was just figuring I could/should put spade terminals on those 2 wires and slide them under the screws and have a nice solid connection.
Again, It may be well possible and easy for me to put the 10ga SOOW wire under those square washers, in which case this post was purely academic...i'm always happy to learn something new.
 

sparky36000

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Long story short, I've got a Square D QO series shutoff mounted on the wall for my compressor...I will be changing the "shutoff switch" over to a 30A Breaker so I can use the 10GA SOOW I already have on the compressor..the issue with the 30A Breaker is it has the captive square washers as you mentioned. While I haven't attempted to do it yet, The 10ga SOOW wire doesn't look like it will fit nicely under that terminal. It may go just fine, I don't know...I was just figuring I could/should put spade terminals on those 2 wires and slide them under the screws and have a nice solid connection.
Again, It may be well possible and easy for me to put the 10ga SOOW wire under those square washers, in which case this post was purely academic...i'm always happy to learn something new.

It will fit fine on your breaker without a fork terminal. Make a fresh strip on the end of your stranded wire so all the strands are nice and straight, back the screw out to give you max room on the terminal , make sure all strands go in straight and crank it down tight. Good to go.
 

gcronau

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Oct 22, 2012
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Pittsburgh, PA area.
Probably a simple/stupid question, but rather check with people who know before doing anything stupid....

No such thing as a stupid question, just stupid answers...

Is it OK to use Spade terminals on AC? And are there special terminals for use with AC? I'm guessing it's fine as I got a new take off 6' piece of 10ga SOOW wire a while back to use on my compressor and it had factory installed ring terminals on one end.

Ok to use? Yes, certainly. Spade, ring, faston and others are used all over the place with AC. Look at the control panel inside your dishwasher or washing machine or dryer or microwave. Or the main wiring inside your furnace. Crimped terminals all over the place.

As others have said, the terminals should be rated for 120v, but frankly, I challenge anyone to show me the difference between a 12v terminal and a 120/240v terminal. Pointless to manufacture one for 12v when a 120v one works as well. The only real issue IMO, is current carrying ability. Don't shoehorn a crimp meant for 16ga wire onto a 10ga wire. There may not be enough mass of metal to carry the level of current that 10ga wire is designed for(up to 40amps in some cases). The terminal ends up being the highest point of resistance, drops the most voltage, and melts.


What I'm thinking is it would be easier to put spade terminals on the 10ga SOOW to hook to my 30A Breaker vs try to get the wires under the plate which is really meant for solid wire....

The connection lug on the line side of a circuit breaker isn't meant for just solid wire. It's meant for either solid or stranded. Especially if it's the type that squeezes the wire between 2 plates, rather than the screw putting pressure on the strands directly, like the hole-and-screw you typically see on a ground or neutral bar. The squeezing-between-2-plates connection type is an excellent way to terminate a stranded wire. Whether it's the lug on a breaker, a back-wired switch or outlet(not backstabed!), or a piece of SJO going into the terminals on something like a pro-grade leviton plug.

That being said, the finer strands in a piece of SJO will require more attention that the 9 strands you'll encounter in THHN. I'd twist the stands together to make sure they all go under the plate and you don't have any strays.

If the connection has the screw bearing down directly onto the wire, a ground bar for instance, you should make sure that you're using a hole that is just big enough, so the screw doesn't spread the strands away from contact, but rather forces them to "fill up" the volume of the hole. Don't put a finely stranded 12ga wire into a hole that could take a 1/0 wire. Find a smaller hole.

Also, pull the screw out first and make sure the machining process left a smooth surface on the end of the screw. That way, the screw doesn't machine it's way through the fine strands as you tighten it.

As for solding: I'm a big fan of soldering, but there's been some discussion that tinned stranded wire can "cold flow" over time under the pressure of a screw and the joint will loosen. I'm not convinced of that, but there it is.
OTOH, I've always felt that the initial flow that occurs as the screw tightens onto the soldered strands helps them mold themselves to the screw to make for more surface area and a better overall contact. YMMV.

If you solder, make sure to use a solvent to remove all the flux so it doesn't act as an insulator, and use a tin/silver solder if you can get it. It's higher strength that tin/lead(so less likely to flow) and the silver should help with the conductivity.
 

Kevin C

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Aug 4, 2011
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Portland OR
Probably a simple/stupid question, but rather check with people who know before doing anything stupid....

Is it OK to use Spade terminals on AC? And are there special terminals for use with AC? I'm guessing it's fine as I got a new take off 6' piece of 10ga SOOW wire a while back to use on my compressor and it had factory installed ring terminals on one end.

What I'm thinking is it would be easier to put spade terminals on the 10ga SOOW to hook to my 30A Breaker vs try to get the wires under the plate which is really meant for solid wire....

If it was for a product at work that had to meet UL requirements, this is what I would use for a terminal:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0190190037/WM18256-ND/279057

http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ps/PS-19902-014.pdf Product Spec.. Terminal is rated for 24 AMPs / 300 V with 10 AWG wire, 48 amps of cycling current.

The other part is using good crimpers.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0640160037/WM9986-ND/821379 Service grade crimper.. A lot better than the standard $20 crimpers.



http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0640010200/WM9965-ND/469907 higher end crimper that has very consistent results. Good for OEM use when you have to prove your crimps are good. Sometimes you can find a good deal on used units on E Bay. For a product that had to meet UL requirements this is a reasonable tool.

If you want to know how good your crimp is the best check is to do a pull test on a sample part (you can also measure the height of the crimp, but the real proof is a pull test). 10 AWG in the housing should have a pull strength of at least 80 lbs. In industry you would be required to use a calibrated machine. A DIY method can be hanging weight lifting plates from the wire withe the crimp held in a slotted plate.

http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/ATS-640010200.pdf Crimper spec sheet to meet UL 310 requirments.

http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/TM-640160065.pdf Everything you ever wanted to know about crimping.

Probably over the top for home usage but what you might expect to have to do on product that has to get certified.
 
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Charles (in GA)

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50 mi south of Atlanta
What are you using this SOOW cord for? SOOW cord is not intended or allowed by NEC to be used for permanent installations. SOOW cord has very fine strands and many terminals on pressure switches and such are not designed for this fine stranded cord, and are not approved for it. (this is one reason you should not take a dryer cord and slap it on a water heater).

It sounds like you need to use some sort of flex conduit and THHN wires in it to supply the compressor.

Charles
 
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Spudland_Dave

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Maine
What are you using this SOOW cord for? SOOW cord is not intended or allowed by NEC to be used for permanent installations. SOOW cord has very fine strands and many terminals on pressure switches and such are not designed for this fine stranded cord, and are not approved for it. (this is one reason you should not take a dryer cord and slap it on a water heater).

It sounds like you need to use some sort of flex conduit and THHN wires in it to supply the compressor.

Charles

Wont exactly be a permanent install..this is a temporary install from a real world point of view.
A) I'm not exactly done messing around (Building Construction) where the compressor goes, so I was going to install a piece of SOOW scrap to the shutoff with an L6-30R plug, so I can move the compressor as needed in the near future...I cant "Not wire it" because I need air for my nailers. Not that I have any code to worry about here, but I thought having the plug on it made it code compliant...

B) Once I've got the compressor permanently placed, I was planning on using Flex & THHN, but in the meantime, I just need & want to use what I got.
 
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