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spaghetti wiring

TWX

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Apr 1, 2010
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817
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Phoenix
Hey all,

I tried to replace the old mercury-switch thermostat with a new programmable one and ran into some problems, namely that none of the wiring seems to match either what the new T-stat expects OR what the air handler's documentation expects.

The old thermostat was hooked in with four of the five wires in the bundle, the Red wire going to RH (and also jumpered to RC), the Yellow wire going to both Y and W, the Blue wire going to O, and the Green wire going to G. The White wire wasn't hooked to anything.

The wiring in the air handler has the Tstat-Red wire going to a red wire in the air handler, as well as to another red wire in another bundle going out of the air handler, presumably to something outside like to the compressor itself. Tstat-White (not hooked at the other end) connects to a Airhandler-Brown, but the Compressor-White isn't hooked to anything. The Tstat-Yellow wire connects to Compressor-Yellow. Tstat-Blue connects to Compressor-Blue. Tstat-Green isn't hooked to anything, but Compressor-Green is hooked to Airhandler-Gray.

A chart:
Code:
Tstat		airhandler	Compressor

R(RH,RC)--------R---------------R

B(O)----------------------------B

Y(W,Y)--------------------------Y

G		G---------------Gr

*W*    ---------Br              W
(unhooked)

I *Think* this system is a heatpump. It does have both heat and cooling.

I've attached pictures of the tstat wiring, the in-airhandler wiring (sorry the picture isn't great, phone's camera) and of the diagrams in the air handler manual for regular AC with heat (which I don't think it is), heatpump with no outside thermostat, and heatpump with outside thermostat. Any help would be very appreciated!
 

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TWX

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Well, I went through and after a fresh sleep and hooked everything up. The fan relay is wired to operate off of the compressor for control not off of the thermostat. The white wasn't hooked up because it's a heat pump, so that's why on the old thermostat the white and yellow were jumpered. That left only Red for 24V power, Yellow for Cool (or in this case, heat pump function) and Blue/O for Energize to Cool. Still have no function.

I went ahead and hooked up the old thermostat after it still didn't work with the new one, and I STILL got no function. I tried testing voltages at the thermostat, got nothing expected, then I tested the thermostat wiring at the air handler end and still got no expected voltages, then I tested the 230VAC to 24VDC transformer on its connectors directly. I confirmed a little above 230V on the AC side, but got something like 70 microvolts on the DC side, not 24V like I expected. I tried with a second multimeter just to make sure that the meter worked and still got the same result. I'm thinking that either I killed the transformer somehow or else it picked an interesting time to fail.

Now I need to replace the 208/230VAC to 24VDC transformer in this Bryant air handler. Any suggestions for a source? I'm trying to find the right part in my Grainger catalog, but it's proving elusive...
 

rickairmedic

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May 31, 2005
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louisville ,Ky
TWX any 240v/24V transformer will work . Whoever did that did it due to not having the right wires in the first place . I would bet your house had gas heat originally and 2 dumbies in a truck converted it over to a heat pump system . I would pull new 8 wire thermostat wire through the system and wire it back up as it shows in the diagram ( without outside thermostat ) . I will add you should kill power to both the indoor and outdoor units before changing a thermostat ( some older systems had the transformer in the outside unit ) . Home depot or Lowes for the new thermostat wire and any HVAC supply house ( that will sell to you ) for the transformer .


Rick
 
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TWX

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Phoenix
I picked up 18ga/7 today when I reran the line. I did notice when I was in the air handler that wire harness in the air handler for W2, W3, and E didn't plug in to anything, there was just a bare harness.

I'm going to replace the transformer first, and see if the old functionality is restored. If it is, but still doesn't like the new thermostat then I may look into what else might be wrong with the configuration of the air handler.

The house never had gas actually, but was built in '79 and since it's a shop my guess is that there wasn't a lot of desire to spend money on repairs. I'm not 100% certain that it was installed as a new unit in the first place- again, as a shop, someone might have found a used system and made it work. The air handler is not enclosed, just sitting in the back corner of the garage, and the ductwork is hanging from the rafters, again not enclosed.
 

justsam

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I confirmed a little above 230V on the AC side, but got something like 70 microvolts on the DC side, not 24V like I expected

I will let one of the pros here correct if wrong, ( I am not one), but I believe the control voltage will be 24 VAC. I do not believe there is a rectifier in there to change it to DC, so make sure you have meter set to read AC voltage.
 
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brewchief

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I will let one of the pros here correct if wrong, ( I am not one), but I believe the control voltage will be 24 VAC. I do not believe there is a rectifier in there to change it to DC, so make sure you have meter set to read AC voltage.

This is correct, control voltage will be 24 volts AC
 
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TWX

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I had two oopses that, between this forum, some sleep, and speaking with the operations HVAC guys at work got straightened out...

First oops, there were two control wire bundles running into the air handler, one between the air handler and the thermostat, and one between the air handler and the compressor. Stupid me, I unhooked the WRONG one when adding my new wire, removing the set from the compressor to the air handler, rather than the old t-stat wire. OOPS! I figured that one out when I got the thermostat to engage the fan but couldn't get the compressor to start. Yeah, felt stupid for that one. #$^& both bundles using brown sheathing on the wire bundles...

Second oops, as you guys called it, the transformer was actually 230VAC to 24VAC, so when I tested it I wasn't testing it correctly, explaining my bogus results.

So, now the workshop has a programmable thermostat that automatically returns to 86 degrees during the summer and to 60 degrees during the winter every four or so hours during daylight hours, so if I forget to to turn the unit up or down when I leave it'll do it automatically at some point anyway.
 
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TWX

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Yeah. Turns out green was connected, it was white unconnected at both ends, and that the airhandler-to-compressor run is what lacked green but had white (as Common)...
 
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