Sparky labor rate

[Steve_P]

I'm not an electrician.

$50 an hour is a fantasy- it's not 1980 anymore. $100 an hour is also way too low. The people that mow lawns where I live in TN charge at least $60/hr even when they do 4 houses within a hundred yards of me. Last time I called an HVAC repairman, 5+ years ago, it worked out to probably $300/hr; and yeah, I'll never call that company again. Edit: and they were in the area, no more than five miles from me, so it's not like they drove an hour out in the boonies as I'm in a populated suburb.

The "I'll supply the materials" will be a red flag and not help the estimates. As said.

 

[johnre]

I think we scared off the OP in this thread - perhaps he's properly learned the meaning of the phrase "Man, that stove is hot!".

 

[dave*99]

I saw the mention of a prior attempt by the OP to do this job for $800 was rejected. In today’s economy I’d call that half off.

 

[mm08822]

I think we scared off the OP in this thread - perhaps he's properly learned the meaning of the phrase "Man, that stove is hot!".

He'll be back. He averages 8 posts a day. 41,222 posts in 14 years!!!

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

NOBODY GETS IN TO SEE THE old WIZARD!……….. NOBODY!

BTW! I enjoy reading some of his posts.…… Hopefully he comes back soon.

 

[Maddog3355]

Good luck with that. Here, changing a panel for anything other than a repair requires the service to be brought up to the current code requirements, that means an exterior disconnect or meter main and a surge suppressor at a minimum up to a whole house upgrade in a couple of areas. There isn't much "pulling the meter" anymore, the POCO disconnects it and won't reconnect without an inspection and release by the AHJ.

As far as rates, I'm at $110 per hour with material marked up +-50% and I supply everything other than light fixtures. If someone thinks they can save money by supplying material, that's fine but the labor rate is $150 per hour and you'd better have everything because I'm going to be sitting on my *** at $150 per hour waiting for you to go buy something you forgot or didn't think to get. If it's piddly things that I have on the truck like staples or wire nuts, I'll go ahead and supply them, but they are gonna be really expensive. Also, there is no warranty on anything I don't supply.

Edited to add: If the customer is a pain in the ***, there will be a pain in the *** charge but described as a trip charge. It's usually $100, but it gets waived if I like the person.

People like you with attitudes like that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[sparky 1971]

People like you with attitudes like that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

And since I have more work than I want to do, I have no problem telling people like you to pound sand.

 

[LOW1]

A reasonable price is whatever two people can agree on. The electrician can quote what he wants to. Maybe he wants $1500 for the job and quotes that price. Homeowner then says yes or no. Nothing sinister about it.

 

[mm08822]

A reasonable price is whatever two people can agree on. The electrician can quote what he wants to. Maybe he wants $1500 for the job and quotes that price. Homeowner then says yes or no. Nothing sinister about it.

Someone makes a proposal/offer. The other party can accept it, refute it, or negotiate. In the end, it is accept or refute. Done.

 

[reader2580]

People like you with attitudes like that leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm sure he doesn't need you as a customer either.

There is a Youtuber called Mikey Pipes who is an HVAC contractor on Long Island. He readily admits he marks up his parts by several times. He says he has a mobile warehouse (his vans) that each have around $100,000 in parts in them which justifies the markups. He seems to make a lot of money so his parts prices aren't scaring customers off. His videos show him going back to customers who have used him before so they aren't calling someone else due to the prices. He admits his prices are high, but it is also a high cost of living area.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I know an auto mechanic and his "secret motto" is:
Once I get the car up on the lift, ALL competition goes away.

 

[theoldwizard1]

3 years ago I received 3 quotes for new panel, 2 from solo guys and 1 larger company. All 3 same price. $1500 labor and material. I finally had it done as part of my solar install. Not sure what the solar company charged.

Finally a straight answer. Everyone else wants to be a comedian.

I still don't understand excessive material markup for any skilled trade, especially if the trades man and I are going to the same source.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Last time I called an HVAC repairman, 5+ years ago, it worked out to probably $300/hr; and yeah, I'll never call that company again.

Daughter called HVAC company because the furnace was making a noise. Minor adjustment. $90. Reasonable.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Supplying your own materials will leave you with no warranty and an increased labor rate to compensate for the sparky's lost revenue on the parts markup.

That is very reasonable.

As is a minimal billing time of 4 hours.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Duplicate

 

[johnre]

I still don't understand material markup for any skilled trade.

It's all about the procurement channels.

Yes, you can buy materials and repair parts off of Amazon. But can you be assured that:

1. They're really in stock at the source?
2. They will arrive on time?
3. They're the correct materials / parts?
4. They're not Chinese-made counterfeits?
5. You can send them back if they're not correct?
6. The recent history for that vendor / distributor / manufacturer has been good?

I would offer that as a DIYer, I often use Amazon for my own materials and repair parts, and have mostly done so successfully. But when it's mid-90s temperatures, the outdoor A/C compressor won't start, you know what it is, but SWMBO is already complaining about the heat, you simply call somebody competent who can repair it in a timely manner, and pay his fair labor price with an aggressive material markup. And in this case, to his credit he did warn me when I described the problem over the phone that it was likely the motor start capacitor, which I already knew, and that it would be $300 installed. I happily paid this, and in fact the part was carried on his van.

 

[American Locomotive]

Daughter called HVAC company because the furnace was making a noise. Minor adjustment. $90. Reasonable.

Only $90 for a house call is crazy low, and I would not use that as a "standard".

Finally a straight answer. Everyone else wants to be a comedian.

I still don't understand material markup for any skilled trade.

Tradition. Back in the day, plumbers, electricians, etc... effectively acted like retailers. They bought components at discounted rates from wholesalers, much like a hardware store might. Then they would "sell" them at the "retail cost" to you.

However things have changed a lot. The biggest thing is the advent of online discounters and wholesalers who will sell equipment and components to anyone, at near wholesale prices.

It's all about the procurement channels.

Yes, you can buy materials and repair parts off of Amazon. But can you be assured that:

1. They're really in stock at the source?
2. They will arrive on time?
3. They're the correct materials / parts?
4. They're not Chinese-made counterfeits?
5. You can send them back if they're not correct?
6. The recent history for that vendor / distributor / manufacturer has been good?

I would offer that as a DIYer, I often use Amazon for my own materials and repair parts, and have mostly done so successfully. But when it's mid-90s temperatures, the outdoor A/C compressor won't start, you know what it is, but SWMBO is already complaining about the heat, you simply call somebody competent who can repair it in a timely manner, and pay his fair labor price with an aggressive material markup. And in this case, to his credit he did warn me when I described the problem over the phone that it was likely the motor start capacitor, which I already knew, and that it would be $300 installed. I happily paid this, and in fact it was carried on his van.

I agree with your points that there's definitely a lot of "value" in the person having that stuff in their van ready to go.

For me, I struggle accepting the mark up on certain items. Especially low hanging fruit items like capacitors which are cheap, criticial, and fail often. Sticking a customer with a $300 bill for an $8 capacitor, 10 minutes of labor, and 30 minutes of driving just feels grimey to me.

 

[dave*99]

Finally a straight answer. Everyone else wants to be a comedian.

I still don't understand excessive material markup for any skilled trade, especially if the trades man and I are going to the same source.

It’s standard practice in many lines of business. And you may be going to the same source but may not be paying the same price.
A tradesman with high volume purchasing will be on a lower pricing tier. He earns that by directing his business in a certain fashion.

My buddy had a busy auto shop. He let me use his account to buy loaded brake calipers. I damn near passed out when I saw how much lower his pricing was compared to the typical rate. He said yeah, I’m turning $4OK a month through that parts supplier. 20 years ago…

Things have changed and online discounting is a factor today but:

As for excessive markup, the tradesman will provide a quote for the job which includes his desired profit. Take it or leave it. Parts and labor. The details don’t really matter. You can compare his price to his competitors. End of story. Try to reach in his pocket by labeling his markup excessive won’t change the bottom line.

 

[sparky 1971]

Finally a straight answer. Everyone else wants to be a comedian.

A straight answer based on three years ago from what is probably another part of the country.

I still don't understand material markup for any skilled trade.

What would you consider a fair hourly rate if there was no markup? There's a lot of expense that needs covered before money is actually made. A truck and everything that goes with it, hand tools, power tools, big tools, ladders, insurance, licencing, CEU's, and state registrations, are just a few.

What about the time involved with getting the material? Do you want to pay for that time or do you want to pay for time spent on your property and that's all you're going to pay?

And I'd be willing to bet that you would want a warranty for "free". Even if the best of the best material is used, things happen and sometimes parts go bad. Markup helps pay for the return trip that you won't get an additional charge for if it's within a year. About a month ago I got a call from a repeat customer that a heater I installed in his garage last winter wasn't working. Before I went, I checked and it had been a year and two days since I put it in. I went ahead and ate it, bought another and installed it at my expense. The end result was that I spent $500 for two heaters, but only charged $375 for one in addition to losing two billable hours when I could have been doing something else.

 

[dcg9381]

Ball park. $50/hour ? $100/hour ?

Insured, licensed electrician in these parts? That actually does the work him/herself? HA! $150 to show up, and at least $200/hr. If you could get one to show up, which I doubt, without calling in a favor. Guys with a license are not actually doing the work.

The licensed (master) electricians have minions. They'll send you a minion. Here that minion doesn't have to have any license. $150 to show up and SWAG it. Then you pay "their rate" and you'll pay their parts mark up. As a licensed and insured electrician (legit business) they will probably guarantee the work. Probably.

I want a new load center installed. I will purchase it all parts. The existing load center has less than 24 circuits. Surface mount to a poured wall. No ceiling. All circuit come in from overhead.

If you purchase parts, it's just like bringing them to your independent mechanic - all warranty goes out the window, even if installed wrong.

Want a competitive rate on this job, you take photos and bid the job.. You specify what you want. And you send it out for "bid". Labor/parts don't matter. As long as your "ask" is specific enough (as well it should be) they can't gauge you and "bids" are "bids".

What they charge per hr is irrelevant. What they charge for parts is irrelevant....

Or you can hire "service pros" (whatever they call it there) who will send a minion and gauge you.

Replace a panel in 2 hours at $150 hr with customer supplied parts? Mad respect for the "idea there".... But there is no way..... Goodness knows what modern code requirements are between the new and the old panel may not even be legal in your part of the woods.

 

[mm08822]

That is very reasonable.

As is a minimal billing time of 4 hours.

But you wanted to pay for only 2 hrs at the start on your thread

 

[rharman]

If the electrician is your buddy, then by all means go buy your own parts....

If you're hiring a professional electrician that you have no other relationship with, I highly doubt they will allow you to buy your own parts.

It's like having your car repaired at a professional repair shop.... do you buy your own parts? Most shops do not allow that. Some will, but they don't like it.

It would be like ordering breakfast at a restaurant but bringing your own eggs with you for them to cook.

Just my $0.02

I remember being shocked many years ago. My wife and I each had a Lexus for several years. The service writer told me that I should just buy my own Mobil-1 and bring it in to save $$. He said they didn't mind it at all.

They've been the largest Lexus dealer in the western states for 35 years so I guess they make enough money.

 

[rharman]

A straight answer based on three years ago from what is probably another part of the country.

What would you consider a fair hourly rate if there was no markup? There's a lot of expense that needs covered before money is actually made. A truck and everything that goes with it, hand tools, power tools, big tools, ladders, insurance, licencing, CEU's, and state registrations, are just a few.

What about the time involved with getting the material? Do you want to pay for that time or do you want to pay for time spent on your property and that's all you're going to pay?

And I'd be willing to bet that you would want a warranty for "free". Even if the best of the best material is used, things happen and sometimes parts go bad. Markup helps pay for the return trip that you won't get an additional charge for if it's within a year. About a month ago I got a call from a repeat customer that a heater I installed in his garage last winter wasn't working. Before I went, I checked and it had been a year and two days since I put it in. I went ahead and ate it, bought another and installed it at my expense. The end result was that I spent $500 for two heaters, but only charged $375 for one in addition to losing two billable hours when I could have been doing something else.

And... That's why you have plenty of business.

Contractors that treat customers right get good business and good customers.
Customers that treat contractors right get good service and good contractors.
It's really simple.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Finally a straight answer. Everyone else wants to be a comedian.

Its a completely inconsequential number because prices vary all over the country.

Why not just go get 3 quotes from local contractors and be done with it?

Couldve done that in the amount of time you spent on here.

I still don't understand excessive material markup for any skilled trade, especially if the trades man and I are going to the same source.

Because you dont have a clue what it costs to run a business

And how would you define excessive markup? Whats the magic number? And why that number?

Bet you dont have an answer

 

[reader2580]

Daughter called HVAC company because the furnace was making a noise. Minor adjustment. $90. Reasonable.

What is the name of that HVAC contractor? It costs at least $90 before they even show up where I live.

 

[reader2580]

For me, I struggle accepting the mark up on certain items. Especially low hanging fruit items like capacitors which are cheap, criticial, and fail often. Sticking a customer with a $300 bill for an $8 capacitor, 10 minutes of labor, and 30 minutes of driving just feels grimey to me.

That Mikey Pipes guy I mentioned earlier charges I think $160 for a capacitor. It might be even more. That is the part alone, not the labor or trip charge. It is going to cost around $500 to have him install a capacitor. Now, in his videos he often does some other basic checks and such since the customer is paying for a minimum of one hour.

 

[dave*99]

What is the name of that HVAC contractor? It costs at least $90 before they even show up where I live.

$185 to come out and diagnose a failed blower motor. Motor is under parts warranty. Not labor. So another $185 to come back and install it. I should have just bought the motor and skipped the warranty call.

But that’s ultimately what this thread shows. Don’t try to cross over DIY costs with hiring a trade. Pay the man or DIY. Your call.

 

[jblnut]

My local sparky charges $65/hr and no travel time if it’s a quick drop in on the way back from a job sort of deal. A load center replacement is not something I’d consider quick or minor. I do most of the simple electrical stuff around here on the farm and am capable of doing anything my electrician can do but he’ll do it faster and more up to code. I do my best but I know my limits.

As far as supplying parts ….. he allows it and doesn’t charge me extra. I do however get most of my electrical stuff from him when I’m doing the work so there’s that. I do get the occasional plug end from Menards but 95% comes from him. I know I pay a little more for the material but when I ask him to “pop in and run a circuit in the shop when he has time” he’s almost always here in a couple days. That’s worth big bucks to me.

I always leave a case of beer or a big bottle of Pendleton for them. Doesn’t cost much but it goes a long way.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Yes, you can buy materials and repair parts off of Amazon. But can you be assured that:

1. They're really in stock at the source?

Who said Amazon ?

Square D, Homeline (or maybe QO), Home Depot !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Tradition. Back in the day, plumbers, electricians, etc... effectively acted like retailers.

Needed new shower control valve assembly. Price Pfister from Amazon. Installation company said, no warranty on parts. Fine. I accept that !

Less than a year later, there is a problem ! Plumber who came out said "If it is a part, this call is not warranty." Fine. Turns out the installer did not properly tighten the screw on the handle. NO CHARGE !

 

[theoldwizard1]

My buddy had a busy auto shop. He let me use his account to buy loaded brake calipers. I damn near passed out when I saw how much lower his pricing was compared to the typical rate.

I suspect his wholesale prices are lower than Rock Auto or Amazon.

Auto parts are different. Most people do not want to wait 3-5 business days for the parts to arrive. The parts store should be the one making the big markup as they have to handle the inventory and delivery.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What would you consider a fair hourly rate if there was no markup?

No parts, $100-$150/hour, 4 hr minimum

 

[theoldwizard1]

But you wanted to pay for only 2 hrs at the start on your thread

You folks changed my opinion !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Why not just go get 3 quotes from local contractors and be done with it?

Couldve done that in the amount of time you spent on here.

Called 1 so far. New panel w/generator inlet and interlock, $2,000 ! (Square D QO panel with interlock and whole house surge protector, from Home Depot is around $200. Need some extra breakers. $50 ? $100?)

(Segue - The plumbing subcontractor from Home Depot who installed my water heater said, "If you want an inspection, call the city, get a permit and an inspection. If it fails, I will fix it.")

Call me a cheapskate, but for that price, it is not getting done !

 

[theoldwizard1]

My local sparky charges $65/hr and no travel time if it’s a quick drop in on the way back from a job sort of deal. A load center replacement is not something I’d consider quick or minor.

No, not quick or minor ! Needs to fit in his schedule.

Why do professionals in major suburban areas feel they can charge so much more?

 

[Just_Steve]

No, not quick or minor ! Needs to fit in his schedule.

Why do professionals in major suburban areas feel they can charge so much more?

More expensive cost of living

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Call me a cheapskate, but for that price, it is not getting done !

OK…………. YOU'RE A CHEAPSKATE!

 

[4x4Pete]

This is good. I thought that HVAC was the only trade attacked on GJ. I feel better now.

 

[Metal-Marc]

BTW! Most likely the "traveling electrical contractor" has a girl friend (Oxy Annie) who does house cleaning "in the buff" for $5 hour plus a bottle of Oxycodone.

Any chance you can provide contact info. Asking for a friend.

 

[PCustoms]

This is good. I thought that HVAC was the only trade attacked on GJ. I feel better now.

Did anyone attack the trade, or did the OP just miss the boat?