Speeding up engine hoist pumping?

[drummerdimitri]

I just got myself a Cizeta GL 1500 engine crane and it took me 100 pumps to get it from fully lowered to the working height I need.

Having no prior experience with such machines, I found it way too tiring and want to know if I can pump the cylinder using pressurized air or by attaching an electric motor to it.

Has anyone does such a modification to their unit successfully?

I've attached a picture of the crane for your reference.

 

[larry_g]

Pardon Our Interruption...

You can replace the cylinder with an air over hydraulic ram like the one above. I posting the link not as a recommendation of that cylinder but as an example of what is available to solve your problem.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[RTM]

Does it feel like it’s working the full stroke when you are pumping it? Sounds like air needs to be bled if not.

 

[RAYJAY]

trying loaded or non loaded???

 

[johnre]

I .... want to know if I can pump the cylinder using pressurized air or by attaching an electric motor to it.

Has anyone does such a modification to their unit successfully?

Simply stated, no. It's designed to run at several thousand psi on non-compressible hydraulic oil, not on 125 psi compressible air.

The air over hydraulic rams that @larry_g illustrated is still fundamentally a hydraulic lift system. Just look 1:4 lever ratio disadvantage at the piston's mounting point; that alone should convince you that air alone wouldn't work. A 500 lb. engine is going to require 2,000 lb. piston pressure to lift it.

I note that, per Cizeta's website: The G.L. 1500 capacity is 1,500 kg, that's about 3,300 lbs. No wonder they've ratioed it so low; you need that kind of ratio for the heaviest loads it's rated to lift. Could you swap it for a smaller model, like the G.L. 500, if you don't need that kind of lift?

 

[drummerdimitri]

Does it feel like it’s working the full stroke when you are pumping it? Sounds like air needs to be bled if not.

It does yes but the stroke is pretty short.

At least it raises the ram on the down and upstroke.

 

[drummerdimitri]

trying loaded or non loaded???

Not loaded. I'm assuming loaded won't make any difference expect maybe slow it down a little bit.

 

[drummerdimitri]

Simply stated, no. It's designed to run at several thousand psi on non-compressible hydraulic oil, not on 125 psi compressible air.

The air over hydraulic rams that @larry_g illustrated is still fundamentally a hydraulic lift system. Just look 1:4 lever ratio disadvantage at the piston's mounting point; that alone should convince you that air alone wouldn't work. A 500 lb. engine is going to require 2,000 lb. piston pressure to lift it.

I note that, per Cizeta's website: The G.L. 1500 capacity is 1,500 kg, that's about 3,300 lbs. No wonder they've ratioed it so low; you need that kind of ratio for the heaviest loads it's intended to lift. Could you swap it for a smaller model, lie the G.L. 500, if you don't need that kind of lift?

I need this model for the loads I am lifting.

Will look into a pneumatically actuated hydraulic ram but I doubt I will find any where I'm from.

I'm guessing a reciprocating electric motor would be the best solution here. Not sure how much power and torque is needed for this though.

Something like this should do the trick:

 

[johnre]

I'm guessing a reciprocating electric motor would be the best solution here. Not sure how to implement it though.

Not sure what you mean by this. A single-acting hydraulic pump system would probably do the job for you, like this one - but you would have to be careful to size the volume and pressure to the application. I use something like this with my QuickJacks.

 

[assassin10000]

Since it's unloaded, lift the arm and set it back down. Do this with the return valve closed. The ram will stay part way up.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

 

[mike93lx]

I need this model for the loads I am lifting.

Will look into a pneumatically actuated hydraulic ram but I doubt I will find any where I'm from.

I'm guessing a reciprocating electric motor would be the best solution here. Not sure how much power and torque is needed for this though.

Something like this should do the trick:

I would guess something motorized could work when it is unloaded, but the amount of torque you would need loaded is going to be quite significant. Think of how hard you have to push on the handle, even with as long as it is. I don't think this is practical.

If the hoist is used frequently, you could replace the cylinder with a cylinder that is connected to an electric pump (example of a commerical solution https://equipmentdistributors.biz/p...c-electric-pump?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1).

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

I just got myself a Cizeta GL 1500 engine crane and it took me 100 pumps to get it from fully lowered to the working height I need.

Having no prior experience with such machines, I found it way too tiring and want to know if I can pump the cylinder using pressurized air or by attaching an electric motor to it.

Has anyone does such a modification to their unit successfully?

I've attached a picture of the crane for your reference.

If you have never used one of these and your complaining about it being slow maybe you shouldn’t be able to go faster for your own safety???

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

How dose that work out for you with a real load??

 

[gtae07]

Since it's unloaded, lift the arm and set it back down. Do this with the return valve closed. The ram will stay part way up.

This. Just push it up and then tweak it as needed with the pump or return valve.

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

How dose that work out for you with a real load??

not my pic, screenshot that from a youtube video.

If I were to build that, it would be remain functional with the bar as well, so course adjustment with the drill, fine adjustment with the bar...

 

[rust in the eye]

I need this model for the loads I am lifting.

Will look into a pneumatically actuated hydraulic ram but I doubt I will find any where I'm from.

I'm guessing a reciprocating electric motor would be the best solution here. Not sure how much power and torque is needed for this though.

Something like this should do the trick:

Quite an impressive looking engine crane you have there. You say you need the capacity but I'm curious about the frequency of these jobs.
Pumping that thing a bunch of times isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of an engine swap.
Attaching the device you've shown here seems a bit Rube Goldberg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine

 

[sz0k30]

Simply stated, no. It's designed to run at several thousand psi on non-compressible hydraulic oil, not on 125 psi compressible air.

The air over hydraulic rams that @larry_g illustrated is still fundamentally a hydraulic lift system. Just look 1:4 lever ratio disadvantage at the piston's mounting point; that alone should convince you that air alone wouldn't work. A 500 lb. engine is going to require 2,000 lb. piston pressure to lift it.

I note that, per Cizeta's website: The G.L. 1500 capacity is 1,500 kg, that's about 3,300 lbs. No wonder they've ratioed it so low; you need that kind of ratio for the heaviest loads it's rated to lift. Could you swap it for a smaller model, like the G.L. 500, if you don't need that kind of lift?

What's the difference between air/hyd on an engine hoist vs air/hyd on my HF 20 ton press?

 

[GeoBruin]

Delete.

 

[whateg01]

I've mocked up and tried a drill driven thing like the yellow thing above. Mine attaches to the tank above and has a disconnect so the regular pump handle still can be used for small adjustments. Highly recommend motorizing it!

 

[Lucid Moments]

Pardon Our Interruption...

You can replace the cylinder with an air over hydraulic ram like the one above. I posting the link not as a recommendation of that cylinder but as an example of what is available to solve your problem.

lg
no neat sig line

I have this or something very like it on mine and it is the bees knees. Makes life so much easier.

 

[whateg01]

Quite an impressive looking engine crane you have there. You say you need the capacity but I'm curious about the frequency of these jobs.
Pumping that thing a bunch of times isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of an engine swap.
Attaching the device you've shown here seems a bit Rube Goldberg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine

What says op is only using it once every 5 years? I use mine for all kinds of stuff. Even have a fork attachment for stuff I can't really get a chain or strap to grab. Even stuff that I might be able to wrestle out of the back of the pickup or off the trailer by hand is easier and safer for my back using one of my engine hoists.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I

This. Just push it up and then tweak it as needed with the pump or return valve.

I do the same thing. Lift up and use my hand to pump. My ram drops but it's faster than not lifting.

 

[kbeefy]

Another vote for manually lifting the hoist, if unloaded.

 

[johnre]

What's the difference between air/hyd on an engine hoist vs air/hyd on my HF 20 ton press?

It's entirely a matter of how compressible is the fluid used, what pressure you can raise the fluid, and piston diameter. Here is a table based on some guesses and on science:

Fluid	Air	Oil
Compressible?	PV=nRT	Essentially, no
Pressure attainable	125 psi	3000 psi
Piston diameter	36 in^2	1.5 in^2

 

[GeoBruin]

It's entirely a matter of how compressible is the fluid used, what pressure you can raise the fluid, and piston diameter. Here is a table based on some guesses and on science:

Fluid	Air	Oil
Compressible?	PV=nRT	Essentially, no
Pressure attainable	125 psi	3000 psi
Piston diameter	36 in^2	1.5 in^2

I really don't understand where your posts are coming from. You seemingly intentionally misinterpreted the Ops question to imply that he was asking about an air pneumatic cylinder as opposed to air over hydraulic. Even if he didn't say that, it's clear that's what he meant.

Then sz0k30 asked specifically about air over hydraulic in one application vs another, and you reply with a comparison of the relative compressibility of air and hydraulic fluid.

No one here is suggesting using an air pneumatic piston to achieve the OP"s intended goals but you.

 

[johnre]

I really don't understand where your posts are coming from.

Good question - this sentence phrasing from the OP is pretty much what I'm basing my answers on:

I found it way too tiring and want to know if I can pump the cylinder using pressurized air ....

I guess it boils down to what he meant by saying "pump the cylinder using pressurized air" - i.e. the master cylinder or the slave cylinder. I took it to mean the latter. Peace.

 

[drummerdimitri]

Haven't actually tried pushing the arm up manually but if that works then my issue has been resolved as I have no interest in lifting a load quickly for the sake of safety and control but to get to the required working height rapidly.

I really don't want to swap out the piston so I guess my other option is the impact wrench trick.

 

[Mesozoic]

I regularly use my engine hoist, for engines, but also for loading and unloading any heavy equipment from my truck, which is often enough to look for something pneumatic to help ease the pumping actions required currently.

I noticed that Harbor Freight sells ARO adapted cylinders that may be a candidate for retrofitting the standard engine hoist: https://www.harborfreight.com/8-ton...ram-round-bottom-airhydraulic-jack-58816.html

I haven't tried one myself, but I've been looking at just the mechanism that replaces the mechanical actuator as there's nothing wrong with my existing cylinder.

 

[Formula]

 

[Lucid Moments]

I regularly use my engine hoist, for engines, but also for loading and unloading any heavy equipment from my truck, which is often enough to look for something pneumatic to help ease the pumping actions required currently.

I noticed that Harbor Freight sells ARO adapted cylinders that may be a candidate for retrofitting the standard engine hoist: https://www.harborfreight.com/8-ton...ram-round-bottom-airhydraulic-jack-58816.html

I haven't tried one myself, but I've been looking at just the mechanism that replaces the mechanical actuator as there's nothing wrong with my existing cylinder.

My engine hoist has a retrofitted cylinder on it. It was done before it became my hoist but the previous owner was quite frugal (cheap as ****) and it would surprise me if the cylinder on it came from anywhere better than Harbor Freight. It does not say Pittsburgh on it, but it was done probably 7 or 8 years ago.

 

[Mesozoic]

My engine hoist has a retrofitted cylinder on it. It was done before it became my hoist but the previous owner was quite frugal (cheap as ****) and it would surprise me if the cylinder on it came from anywhere better than Harbor Freight. It does not say Pittsburgh on it, but it was done probably 7 or 8 years ago.

How's it holding up? I have an American Forge & Foundry hoist and the 8-ton cylinder is made in China. It looks to be the same dimensions as the Pittsburgh unit with the ARO.

Also, I'll just add that my triceps are huge.

 

[BukitCase]

I have a few different work areas on my 10 acres so I have 3 different 2 ton engine hoists, all of which have been retro'd with the air/hydraulic cylinders - I have the 20 ton air/hydraulic on my 20 ton press, and a couple more of those cylinders I've retrofitted with toe jack add-ons - ALL of these are HF, and I've had ZERO problems with any.

There is NO DOWNSIDE to this change, it's really nice to be able to "get there fast" with the air, then "sneak up on it" with the hand pump.

OK, I lied - the one downside is the cost of the cylinders. If you tend to get irritated from lack of speed, the cost is a no-brainer... Steve

 

[Mesozoic]

What I am hoping to find (and perhaps it doesn't exist because I've not been able to find it for weeks, now) is just the mechanism to replace the hydraulic fitting on the existing cylinder. It looks like the mechanism is simply not available separately from the cylinder, at least at the consumer level. I may visit a fluid power shop and ask them about a retrofit.

 

[Lucid Moments]

How's it holding up? I have an American Forge & Foundry hoist and the 8-ton cylinder is made in China. It looks to be the same dimensions as the Pittsburgh unit with the ARO.

Also, I'll just add that my triceps are huge.

It is still running like a champ. I worry about the air supply line on the pump because the previous owner had it sitting outside for a couple of years before I got it and the hose is cracking pretty badly, but when that goes I will buy another cylinder.

 

[Mesozoic]

It is still running like a champ. I worry about the air supply line on the pump because the previous owner had it sitting outside for a couple of years before I got it and the hose is cracking pretty badly, but when that goes I will buy another cylinder.

Do you mind posting some photos of the mechanism? In your case, wouldn't it be easier to merely replace the worn out hose?

 

[Lucid Moments]

Do you mind posting some photos of the mechanism? In your case, wouldn't it be easier to merely replace the worn out hose?

I will try to get some later today. As for the hose, you are probably right I just haven't needed to get into the details yet.

 

[Mesozoic]

I will try to get some later today. As for the hose, you are probably right I just haven't needed to get into the details yet.

Still waiting on some pics if it's not too difficult to obtain them!

 

[Lucid Moments]

Still waiting on some pics if it's not too difficult to obtain them!

It isn't difficult at all, I just forgot. If you want to see something not shown in these let me know.

 

[Lucid Moments]

Okay for some reason they don't want to upload to here. Here is a link to a google photo album.

3 new items added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl