spell check anyone

[fattogatto]

I never really consider myself an idiot, a little slow some times, but I live in my own world.

And if you ever want to get out of that world some conformity to societal norms is required. However, if you want to remain where you are, keep on brown baggin'.

Anecdotally, many very talented mechanics found themselves flailing (and failing) at their jobs when computers began rearing their ugly heads in the automotive maintenance world. No longer was it enough to have tools and know how to turn a wrench. The times they wasted in high school after deciding they did not need to study that math and computer science have now come back to bite them.

When will they ever learn?

 

[green.bubbly]

I can turn a wrench, pretty decent in Math and know more than most about computers. In high school, I did not focus on Math and we did not have any computer classes. I have managed just fine to adopt to the computers in my profession in spite of my lack of "education" as many others have been able to. This has little to do with my spelling ability.

I do make a half hearted attempt at using correct spelling and grammer mainly because it does make for easier reading. With that said, you will probably find many mistakes such as sense instead of since. That is what happens when you do not have time to go back and correct what you say. Most of us here do not have extra time to spend checking our grammer on a garage forum and personally, I do not ever judge a person by what how they type on an Internet forum.

When i come here, I need advice on building a steel building slab not how to post my resume.

 

[PAToyota]

Using a Mac, spellcheck is built into the OS so I get it on any forum automatically.

But even the websites that have spellcheck have a fair amount of people that apparently don't bother to use them.

 

[formek]

I think this has been an interesting thread. I find my self going back and forth. Yes we should spell check!!! Sh*t I don't have the time!!! I should always try to improve anything with my name on it.
PS I do not think that poor spelling is a sign of lack of intelligence.

 

[larry_g]

I can't spell very well at all. But I try to use my spell check when I think I have made a boo boo. Most of the time I am on my phone and it doesn't catch all the words. But hell I try.

So what I can't spell, I can run copper pipe like a champ. Just cause you can't spell doesn't make you an idiot. Just makes it fun when trying to explain something. Hell I'm not good at math either, so does that make me a bigger idiot?

Like I said before I am a poor speller also, add to that a poor typist, and a poor wordsmith. I could be perceived as an idiot. The point I'm trying to make here is that at a young age you need to develop good habits of how you present yourself. I'm retired now and started my work life 40 years ago. As a mechanic I figured no need to spell and type and all that stuff, I only had to fix things. As I aged and progressed in life I found that I had to communicate with people, then write some manuals, then teach and finally run projects that had 100 men and women working on them. I also came to understand that some people I had written off many years ago as an idiot came back to haunt them. MY prejudice in later years had me choosing others to do the job over those I perceived as an idiot or someone who would not have the pride and caring to do the job to the best of their ability. What you do today may determine the opportunities that you have presented to you years in the future.
In addition to doing my job I also found out that as a parent I was involved in many things that had nothing to do with that job. I set on the local school board, was involved in scouts, 4-H, church, and many other things that required good communications skills. There is a lot more to life than just a trade or job that we can do well at. I really do hope that you have an easier road in life than I had and I hope that in 30 years you can look back and think I’m glad I was encouraged to take the high road. I was fortunate to have some good mentors throughout life that did encourage me to strive to a higher level. I’m trying to pass on that to you. There is an old saying that keeps running through my head here, “ It’s better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

Lg
No neat sig line

 

[NASTYZEN]

I'm a one finger wonder,If I knew then what I know now I would of taken typing in high school.I'm french Canadian and I thank God for spell check!I can't spell worth a s$%$ in french ether, merci bon Dieu pour spell check!

 

[xcgates]

Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe

Here I thought GJ already had a spellcheck, but apparently what I've been using is what is built into Chrome!

I generally can tell what someone is trying to say, and while I consider it a plus to have properly spelled words, Lord knows I'm not perfect, so if it isn't an official document, I'm not going to get my ******* in a twist. It's kind of like when talking to someone with a thick accent, I like to be able to see their lips, and only listen halfway, because if I try to focus on exactly what they are speaking, I tend to miss what they are saying. If I *de-tune* a bit, I find it easier to pick up on the meaning.

And as far as people not being good at math, I've had guys tell me they **** at math, yet they can tell me the number of "fill-in-the-black" I will need based on a rough description, and they are spot on. For example, lets say it is pipe, they see the route, and they know (mostly) spot-on how many feet, and how many of what connectors without putting pencil to paper. For those of you who have read the book Rocket Boys (made into the movie October Skies), that is a perfect example. Someone was "dumb" at school, yet he teaches himself the math needed for rocketry. In what world is that dumb?

 

[fattogatto]

In what world is that dumb?

I don't think it's a matter of being dumb/idiotic or of having less intelligence. It points more to being lazy and not having respect for both yourself and others. The laziness and lack of respect contaminates the rest of one's existence, and it is passed on to one's kids. I would have serious questions about the work done by a mechanic who obviously did not care about the image he presented to others. I would certainly not hire him to work on my cars.

 

[Bull]

Why are there always folks who end up wanting to bust balls and make an innocuous thread into something lame?

 

[larry_g]

Why are there always folks who end up wanting to bust balls and make an innocuous thread into something lame?

I guess this is a perfect example of a missed training opprotunity. Without quoting what your talking about nothing is learned here. Bull you should know better.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Bull]

I guess this is a perfect example of a missed training opprotunity. Without quoting what your talking about nothing is learned here. Bull you should know better.

lg
no neat sig line

Larry, I intentionally avoided quoting anyone because that would just make someone feel targeted and therefore become defensive. My general comment might make everyone question whether they, personally, are busting balls in this thread, without taking personal offense.

 

[gabedad]

Using some form of spellcheck does not reflect on someone's intelligence, but on their typing skills and for most of us not reading what we post before we submit. the whole purpose of a forum like this is to express our thoughts and ideas in a concise and clear manner. Misspelled words only confuse most of us as to what was intended to be communicated. Pleez downt tak anee of thiz perzonalee...oh kay? Spell checks are as much a tool for computers and our replies as SO sockets are tools for bolts!!! There's no judgement intended here in this thread, just observation...if you tell me you're heading for NY and I see you driving south toward FL...I just might comment on it....that's not a judgment, but an observation.

Umm - OK just making a suggestion for a spell check.. If "There's no judgement intended here in this thread" Then politely - back off

 

[TN_GARAGE]

What about the big, wall of word posts?

Good thing I have a chair at my desk or I suspect I'd get dizzy reading some of those posts.

Anybody got a paragraph creator program out there?

 

[klhitman]

No, but it must make computing how much copper pipe you need more of a chore.

Not really I just buy X amout of feet and when I need more I buy more. Plus I can read a tape measure. I work in a shop that when you run out you order more then go pick it up.

 

[fattogatto]

Larry, I intentionally avoided quoting anyone because that would just make someone feel targeted and therefore become defensive. My general comment might make everyone question whether they, personally, are busting balls in this thread, without taking personal offense.

When did making an observation, or expressing an opinion about a subject or activity become "ball busting" (whatever that is)? Or become "lame" - whatever that means.

It always amazes me that when someone is taken to task regarding their behavior they instantly challenge back with "you are busting my balls" or some such nebulous phrase. Nothing to be said about why one is acting in such a way so as to elicit critical remarks; no justification for the activity; just a vacuous statement which basically means "I'll continue to act this way and I don't care if it is considered asocial in any way." More's the pity.

 

[Bull]

Hmm. Seems like you sure took my post personally. Wonder why? I didn't mention your name

I like how you pick apart my diction. I do it to my students, when they submit an essay. But, here on the GJ, I'm not worried about whether someone finds fault with my diction. Your evaluation is unimportant.

Also, your reasoning is inaccurate. You say you are amazed that when someone is "taken to task" (are you a taskmaster?) for their behavior, they respond as I have done. And yet, you have not taken me to task, and cannot, for I am not guilty of the behavior being discussed in this thread.

But the tone of your reply to me matches the tone of your reply to others, so at least you are consistent. Are you here to "take people to task" or to talk about tools, garages, and projects? Your answer is important.

When did making an observation, or expressing an opinion about a subject or activity become "ball busting" (whatever that is)? Or become "lame" - whatever that means.

It always amazes me that when someone is taken to task regarding their behavior they instantly challenge back with "you are busting my balls" or some such nebulous phrase. Nothing to be said about why one is acting in such a way so as to elicit critical remarks; no justification for the activity; just a vacuous statement which basically means "I'll continue to act this way and I don't care if it is considered asocial in any way." More's the pity.

 

[kbeitz]

Ispell is the way to go...

http://www.gnu.org/software/ispell/

 

[fattogatto]

Hmm. Seems like you sure took my post personally. Wonder why? I didn't mention your name

No, not at all. In any event, I am quite willing to accept anyone's opinion of my posts or considerations.

I do it to my students, when they submit an essay. But, here on the GJ, I'm not worried about whether someone finds fault with my diction. Your evaluation is unimportant.

So, you instruct your students (either directly or by infererence via your behavior) that proper diction/elocution/grammar is not important in all aspects of life? That proper communication is not a skill to be sought after?

You say you are amazed that when someone is "taken to task" (are you a taskmaster?) for their behavior, they respond as I have done. And yet, you have not taken me to task, and cannot, for I am not guilty of the behavior being discussed in this thread.

I have no reason to take you to task for your behavior. I can disagree with your apparent attitude and recognize it as, in my opinion, a form of blight on our society, but I do not take you to task.

But the tone of your reply to me matches the tone of your reply to others, so at least you are consistent. Are you here to "take people to task" or to talk about tools, garages, and projects? Your answer is important.

Thank you. Talking about tools, garages, and projects is a great past-time. It involves communications. Anytime communications is improved said talking about tools, garages, and projects can only be more effective. Your answer is also important: do you not feel proper grammar, usage and communication are desirable and important skills and the wanton and deliberate abuse of the same indicates a lack of respect for oneself and others? Would you accept the same sort of grammar, mis-spellings and laziness from your students in their essays? If not, then why is it acceptable here?

 

[MrMark]

The overwhelming amount of poor usage regarding advise/advice, their/they're, your/you're, its/it's and threw/through is disconcerting. Paragraphing and basic punctuation make it possible to read much easier.

I also wish "just fine" could be banished from some vocabularies.

The worst one of all is the run/ran problem. This seems to happen the most in the electrical forum.

 

[Bull]

[Lots of words]

I teach English, Charlie. I do that in the classroom.

This isn't the classroom.

You seem fond of what you write. Perhaps as a student of the English language, you are aware of the importance of tone. Yours is unappealing and your style is stiff.

I'm not going to debate any of this with you, because as I said, your evaluation is unimportant.

If you want to discuss this issue with other members, feel free. However, if any of your replies contain insults, you'll be in violation of our rules here.

For example, playing off a member's name in the following way is borderline insulting: "However, if you want to remain where you are, keep on brown baggin'."

Take care.

 

[Lump]

Can we just talk about tools and garages and cars and related issues? Is it necessary for us to criticize each other's spelling or grammar or diction? Come on, guys. I am very interested in the knowledge, experience, and information about the above subjects that ANYONE can give me. Of COURSE it is easier and more pleasant to read when the writing is smooth and well written, with appropriate punctuation, etc. But I would NEVER want to exclude the useful and insightful experiences of people who are better at mechanical skills than they are at common grammar.

I have been a paid professional automotive writer and communicator for over 30 years, and was a young mechanic for several years before that. In my time I have communicated with some of the most storied and and legendary automotive figures of our time, including some of the most famous people in the history of automotive high performance. And I have NEVER found myself trying to correct their grammar, or attack their spelling skills. Instead I have listened intently to every word they said, or read every word they have written for me. And I have LEARNED from them...because I am intelligent enough to read written communications even with spelling errors, and to understand valuable information and history given to me verbally even when the grammar used is not correct.

I am NOT interested in contests intending to prove who among us is better with English writing or speaking skills. I am especially not interested in such things on Garage Journal. I come to this forum to enjoy other people who like tools, cars, and garages as much as I do.

Maybe we've gone far enough with this thread. Let's talk about tools....

 

[Bull]

I always liked you, Jim

 

[Torque1st]

Most browsers have spelling checkers. Using the "right" word is also a problem. Try WordWeb:
http://wordweb.info/
WordWeb is available for free in many languages. It is not automatic. A person has to notice a word does not look right etc to use it. It is very easy to use. Just highlight the word and open your system tray and click on the WordWeb icon. A definition of the word will usually pop up or even some similar suggestions if the word is spelled wrong. There are a number of other WW functions that work well.

Wordweb will definitely help with break/brake, lose/loose, etc.

I have not found anything easy to use for my piss-poor punctuation. Maybe Bull can help me out there. English was never a good subject for me with in school -BORING-.

 

[Lump]

I have not found anything easy to use for my piss-poor punctuation. Maybe Bull can help me out there. English was never a good subject for me with in school -BORING-.

I have enjoyed many posts you have made about tools and related issues on Garage Journal. I hope you will keep posting. I promise to read them, and...me no give-a-damn 'bout yer grammer...or yer grampa either.

It is an honor and a privilege to share info with, and learn from tool guys like you.

Thanks for that.

 

[Bull]

I have enjoyed many posts you have made about tools and related issues on Garage Journal. I hope you will keep posting. I promise to read them, and...me no give-a-damn 'bout yer grammer...or yer grampa either.

It is an honor and a privilege to share info with, and learn from tool guys like you.

Thanks for that.

 

[Torque1st]

I certainly try to pierce the veil of obfuscation here. It is not easy for this grumpy old man anymore. Thanks for the vote of appreciation guys, -it helps.

I see I garbled up my post with an edit. It should read:
"English was never a good subject for me in school -BORING-."
ADD back in the old days was Hell! I still haven't the foggiest idea what a participle is. I vaguely get verbs, nouns, adverbs, and adjectives, but the rest... Right over the top. And spelling, -puhlease. I was forever screwed up by reading books published in the UK.

 

[Coolabah]

Why are there always folks who end up wanting to bust balls and make an innocuous thread into something lame?

Agreed. And what is it with this arrogant stance that assumes English is everyones FIRST language ? Yes, understood, this is a US based forum. Apparently, you have a large proportion of Spanish speakers in the US. You also are more than privileged to have those absolutely charming metric speaking Canadians to your North. French, anyone ?
English is not my first language. English is , in fact not even my second language but I hope that my posts are at least somewhat , in most important respects, at least not too incoherent or too poorly constructed to convey my shallow , un-grammatical and therefore unintelligent thoughts. For those of you that deem perfect spelling in the English language to be a sign of intelligence, and especially those individuals that are mono lingual, trust me , one language is not that hard to master. It is from the 4th onwards that it starts to become difficult...

Sheesh, Garage Journal NOT "Grammar Journal" for crying out loud !!!

 

[Coolabah]

In all seriousness I feel much of the issue is that this is a particular medium, ie an online forum. Said medium inherently involves typing, spelling and written communication.

If one cannot be effecient or effective in the written word, communication suffers.

Now it's true that a picture is worth a thousand words, and if people prefer to post pictures with brief descriptions that can also be very helpful.

In the end the point is that maximum benefit is derived from clear and concise communication, and in a forum such as this that requires proper grammar and spelling.

This can be considerably different in a shop environment where one is being shown how to perform a given task "hands-on." Here, sitting at keyboards, we are not in such an environment.

Arrhhhh... can't resist.... its a full moon... meds wearing off... Bull . please help me , delete this post if I step over the line... Ohhhhh !!!! PAIN !!!!


Wow, just love these internet armchair experts... no offense, I am agreeing with you if that is what you think you are .

Well, if I was to be super-critical I could say that your post was less efficient with the English language than it could have been , especially given that you were trying to set an example to all us dumb guys on GJ

uhhuhh.. Thank goodness you are not a moderator or something significant ! Good to know that we can all have an opinion. I respect your right to be exactly that, whatever it is !!

Yes, I do agree- when I am sitting at my keyboard, I am not in a shop environment. I must confess, I am not sure what this relates to ??

following your reasoning.. "When I am not on a train, I am not in such an environment as when I am on a bus" . Even Nietzsche was not so adventurous but what would he know ??

Just FYI, but I do not see the need to explicitly define typing vs written communication in your monologue. Said medium ? Who said ? I am sure you mean "Aforesaid". Actually, in all honesty I do not think you knew that was what you meant ....I am not at all sure that typing is a medium, being a verb and all. I rest content to my dying day that spelling is not a medium.
"and in a forum such as this that requires proper grammar and spelling. " If I was to agree to your premise, I would also urge you to firsthand personally meet the stringent criteria that you have proscribed for the rest of us to follow......
Sheesh... I just want to know how to weld something , not spell Missippipppsssiiisssppsssiii ... whatever .....if I thought it was important , don't you think I'd google it ???

 

[Bull]

Coolabah, what are your first two languages? If English is your third, I am impressed by your fluency. But, some people are just good naturally proficient at picking them up, I know that much.

 

[fattogatto]

I teach English, Charlie. I do that in the classroom.

This isn't the classroom.

That attitude is an example of why the U.S. is being dumbed down. The lessons learned in the classroom should be designed to prepare the student for life. The classroom is not to be disassociated from the real world. In fact, when you can associate the lessons being taught with their relevance to the real world the students' learning curves steepen.

I'm not going to debate any of this with you, because as I said, your evaluation is unimportant.

If it is unimportant then why the reaction? I am a linguist and the proper use of the (English) language is important to me. I would certainly hope that as an English teacher it would be important to you. Several posters have made the points that good communication skills are important in life, can easily affect one's career paths, and their lack makes getting one's point across more difficult. Yet, when they do so they are pilloried. No one is saying a lack of ability to spell is an indication of mental ability. What they are saying is that it is unfortunate that so many don't care about the impression they make or that their lack of English skills actually impedes their ability to communicate effectively. Not only do they not "spell check," they do not even proofread their posts. Do you not teach your students to use a dictionary? If someone is not going to take the time to present a good impression of himself it does indeed reflect a certain picture of that individual. As an educator I would hope you take the time to impress that point on your charges.

 

[Bull]

That attitude is an example of why the U.S. is being dumbed down.

Morning, Charlie. So, what kind of garage do you have? You have a preferred brand of tools?

 

[eyeboltman]

Lump and Bull , Thanks . I am all so a poor speller . But I love tools ! This site is great . I have hf ,cman,s and k, s o and rusted tools and used them all . Well thats what I tell the little missies ! I love tools Thanks a lot .

 

[brownbagg]

i feel there a proper place for perfect grammar and sentence structure. I would not hand in a report with grammar mistakes, but this place is not one of them. I feel this place is just two guy talking. i dont have time to write a long winded response , with proof reading and foot notes. In other words I dont care enough about the people here to make a good impression.

 

[Auzivision]

Spelling is overated and not a requirment for effective communication.

Can you raed tihs?

i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid; aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.

The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!


Nuff said

 

[larry_g]

Why am I here in this thread? Because I hope that the experience I have lived being a poor in the area of communications will convince some of the younger guys here that it is important. Poor communications will hold you back. Where hopefully Bull sends them out into the real world with the basics we who are at the other end of the spectrum of life can relate our experiences. Being in the classroom kids are safe and warm. Encouraged to do their best. Now out here real life can hit pretty hard. Does poor spelling make you an idiot? No. Does defending poor spelling make you an idiot? Yes. I want to encourage all here to rise to their highest level, not just mediocrity.

Some one said above they do not come here to learn. Well that is the main reason I am here. I would hazard a guess that more transfer of knowledge happens here than any one classroom. This is a medium that reaches all who want it. Look in the 'how did you get to garage journal' thread. Most were looking for something. What is wrong with asking people to rise to a higher standard? This place is like a second home to me. I would like to see it kept nice and something I can be proud of. Let it slip into some place where the rules are pushed aside, all common forms of decency are ignored, the forum will die.

Lg
No neat sig line

 

[Lump]

The world of spelling has finally begun to change, as it should have long ago, and it will never return to its former encumbered style.

For years many educational experts have urged the adoption of phonetic spelling, to make spelling simpler for everyone. But old habits are hard to break, and people like me, who are fairly good at spelling in general, have long resisted the idea of a new style of spelling (for exactly the same reasons we resisted the changeover to metric sizes for tools and fasteners...and we all know how that turned out). Yet finally, young people will make the change for us, whether we like it or not. Mass typed communication media like Facebook, Twitter, and texting are done at a rapid pace, and a new "shorthand" style of spelling is emerging. For example, the word "you" is almost never texted by a young person that way...but is rather spelled simply, "u". Why? Because it is much faster, and much simpler...just as metrics are faster and simpler to calculate than fractional sizes (except for old dinosaurs like me). And the new "u" is a prime example of phonetic spelling. We old dinosaurs will rant and rave and talk about how much we HATE that type of "spelling," just as our forefathers did before us when other anachronisms were being phased out. But in the end it will not matter. The new world is not our world...it belongs to our youth. They will spell any way they choose, while we fade away into the land of inconsequence...

I, for one, don't give a hoot. Does ANYONE want to talk about tools...or would you rather hear a story about the spelling bee I nearly won in elementary school? Perhaps someone is dying to know how well or poorly I did in Honors English in my freshman year? How many of you tool guys and gals on Garage Journal would like to discuss the first time a book which I researched and edited was finally published? No?

Okay then...I have some really old Snap On tools I just organized into an antique box, and I'm sorting literally thousands of used tools into brand names so they can be traded and sold among my tool friends on Garage Journal.

Let's talk about THAT!

 

[Bull]

This place is like a second home to me. I would like to see it kept nice and something I can be proud of. Let it slip into some place where the rules are pushed aside, all common forms of decency are ignored, the forum will die.

Don't worry, I'm always trying to keep the place decent. I wont police spelling, but I will police rude or insulting behavior.

 

[Man Cave]

I have spell checker. Before I owned a computer I owned a dictionary. That same dictionary is sitting right here next to me in case I need it, which is often. If I had a choice I would rather try to read a post with a few misspelled words opposed to a post where a guy doesn't know how to turn off the caps lock. I have no education beyond High School but I consider spelling and grammer important. You can lump me in with the "snooty" crowd that thinks this is important.

 

[rburke65]

fattogatto: Amen . The dumbing down of America. People can't even make change at the check out! And these are the people that will be adjusting my drip tube when I'm in the nursing home. Hopefully they will know the difference between a cup and a cc. Scary.

 

[HSpencer]

I may not be a perfect speller, but watch out!!! I can spray a mean can of WD-40.