Splicing 1/0 aluminum power wire

[sberry]

with either spray foam or some type of silicone sealant...

Again, there is a product approved for this,,, ask first not after.

 

[sberry]

The longer I go the more respect I have for licensing and inspections. Some of the reasons may not be so apparent but one major reason is we all are going to do it the same way, not leave it up everyone pet opinion on how things should be and while it doesn't always work this is to insure that the last guy did his share in a predictable fashion.
I live in a rural area, a mix of new and old equipment and several handyman types that have done installs and seen about every way one can fuk this up. I am going to look at one shortly here, beautiful workmanship, better than my own and would hire the guy in a minute to run wire but,,,, wired wrong panel to panel. Its so neat it must be right???
It has a floating enclosure and (after all everyone now knows we don't bond at sub) the N and the G are all on the N bar. If I remember will take a camera.

 

[Aceman]

Since I didn't see a location listed in the OP's profile, I'll add that Oregon has an exception to 250.32(B)1 that still allows 3 wire feeds provided you meet all the requirements.

Other states may have the same or other exceptions. It's always best to check for any possible amendments to the NEC for the area you live in.

 

[toplessHO]

Since I didn't see a location listed in the OP's profile, I'll add that Oregon has an exception to 250.32(B)1 that still allows 3 wire feeds provided you meet all the requirements.

Other states may have the same or other exceptions. It's always best to check for any possible amendments to the NEC for the area you live in.

pretty sure that exception would include newly derived grounding system aka driven rods.
As for the splices not to worry its done all the time by POCO just use the same tools they do(compression) and seal it up good. I agree with Jason in putting a handhole box in,if driven over it needs to be a traffic box.
I still have my "pop gun" that does 4/0,1/0,#6 soap bars,and has replaceable dies for the larger soap bars. Done thousands and as far as I know no failures.

 

[ExxWhy]

I understand that the code has changed, but where is the shock hazard if there is no other metal bonded/connected to the panel?

Glad u asked.

As i said, if the neutral connection becomes bad or high resistant and u touch the metal structure or conduit and you have a better lower resistant path back to the source(the transformer), neutral current can flow through u. This happens more than u think.

The code didnt change for the mere sake of changing the code.

Is this being inspected?

Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely curious. There is no metal conduit, the shop is stick built with 2x6" walls, and the only "metal" is galvalume metal siding and roofing (which is all over OSB). The only source/point of conduction outside of the panel itself would be the wiring going to lights and receptacles.

Oh, and no, this will not be inspected.

I don't mean to be argumentative either, but I guess I am anyway. I'd like to know what the shock hazard is as well in a completely separate building. I have a pole barn built in the 70's about 200' from my house with a 3 wire feed from the house that the neutral is bonded with the ground rods at the sub panel in the pole barn. Is there any possible scenario that a 4 wire feed will save me from electrocution? There are no other connections, no water, gas, cable, phone, or anything else. (nor do I have plans for any)

 

[sberry]

I am not sure what the odds are but its pretty low. But I fixed a mixed mess in order to standardize and become compliant with all kinds of snot running everywhere, I dug beside and uncovered the wire and traced a new one along with the originals.

 

[Jason280]

Is there any possible scenario that a 4 wire feed will save me from electrocution? There are no other connections, no water, gas, cable, phone, or anything else. (nor do I have plans for any)

That's still the part that really doesn't make sense to me. Other than meet code (and spend more money and time), what do I accomplish by adding a 4th wire in my scenario?

 

[sberry]

Because it doesn't make sense to you is not a reason to do it wrong.

 

[sberry]

I think Wylie or someone spainedned an open neutral leaving the whole place ungrounded and the ideal is to eliminate as many stray neutral currents as possible, some may even be carried by earth. (Some of this is over my head and I certainly lack the capacity to explain it properly) But we are back again, as I said, heard this repeatedly as some kind of license to get an endorsement to do it wrong,,, I don't understand, I don't understand, I don't understand,,, again, all the more reason to do it the correct way.
It may take time to understand, today is not the day to begin a new career as an engineer. I am a slow learner and one reason is I had very poor mentors, it took a long time but I now view all this from a plan view perspective and see it as a web and its a reflex. It didn't come overnight.

 

[Jason280]

Because it doesn't make sense to you is not a reason to do it wrong.

Ok, I'll ask in a different way....how does adding a 4th wire (in my scenario) make it any more "right" (other than to meet code)? I genuinely want to know...

There is nothing in the building to add a shock risk, it isn't attached to another structure, and apparently using 3-wires was up to code less than 10 years ago.

 

[sberry]

I think Wylie or someone spainedned an open neutral leaving the whole place ungrounded and the ideal is to eliminate as many stray neutral currents as possible, some may even be carried by earth. (Some of this is over my head and I certainly lack the capacity to explain it properly)

Again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, this. Whether we understand it or not the code gurus didn't change this because they didn't have anything better to do.
As I said earlier, the code and the inspections are there to PREVENT this very thing. Everyone installs it the same way.
My neighbor called me a while back with a problem in a modular. When I asked him what year it was built he looked at me kind of funny but knowing which code cycle it was under let us trouble shoot it without having to tear the place apart to figure out how it was wired.
Considering all the possible things that can be done wrong this is one of the most dangerous areas to neglect doing it the right way, the correct panel to panel connections eliminate so many potential problems and insure the fault protection works as it should. It also insures everything connected to this service is at the same potential.
As a side note if this was 3 wire an equipment ground bar would not be needed. It could all land on the neutral but we see so many wired incorrectly because the installer simply copies what he may see in one or in a main.
This is a poster case for inspections, conductors too short, wrong number and maybe even the wrong wire who knows. I was at a couple recent where the number of conductors were correct but wired wrong. When this happens the handyman comes back and wires the new additions like he sees and copies and it goes on.
Now since this has not been finalized man up and do it right, add another wire.
We need to be somewhat courteous here, if I kept getting this argument from someone I had working for me they would not be told so kindly especially after several attempts. At this point YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW WHY, now is the time to stuff it and follow instructions. Some day it will dawn, maybe after hearing it from someone else, maybe another day, maybe never

 

[Slowgsr]

Goodluck with your hack project. I hope it fails on you and doesn't become someone else's problem

 

[Pwrgeek]

Well an EGC between two detached structures does not provide anything a properly installed bonded neutral between the two structures wouldn't. Some have argued that if there is a dropped neutral then the sub fed structure can become energized which is true. However if there is a dropped EGC the subfed structure can also become energized so no difference there. The only difference is that in the case of a dropped neutral much of the equipment in the subfed structure will stop functioning and therefore it should get noticed right away. A dropped EGC will probably not get noticed until there is an uncleared ground fault. All of that being said these are both very unlikely scenarios the code clearly requires the EGC to be installed, and for liability and legal reasons you should install it. From an engineering perspective it's the wrong way to go but it doesn't make enough difference to justify the risk of going against the code (and no I didn't just start doing this yesterday).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jason280]

2008 NEC removed the 3-wire to a detached structure allowance. A 4-wire feeder is NOW required Regardless of whether there is parallel metallic pathways or not.

Once again, just to be curious...what happened (or happens) to all the structures utilizing 3-wire power feeds that met code before 2008? Are they simply grandfathered in, or are they required to run an additional wire to meet current code?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative or even obtuse, I honestly want to learn...stuff like this is fascinating to me, and I have no problem doing things correctly the first time.

Goodluck with your hack project. I hope it fails on you and doesn't become someone else's problem

Stay classy, Ontario...

 

[walrus]

Once again, just to be curious...what happened (or happens) to all the structures utilizing 3-wire power feeds that met code before 2008? Are they simply grandfathered in, or are they required to run an additional wire to meet current code?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative or even obtuse, I honestly want to learn...stuff like this is fascinating to me, and I have no problem doing things correctly the first time.



Stay classy, Ontario...

They are grandfathered