Splicing Wire

[billrigsby]

I am doing a lot of re-wiring after a small room removal.
Currently I have several groups of wires from the ceiling and
several from the now non-existent walls. I am going to re-route
all of this spaghetti through cabinets, up and down the wall to
new switches etc.

Needless to say, most if not all of these existing wires are too short.
Question;

Is there an acceptable way to splice wires without doing the accessable
box and cover route? I am not concerned with code, just want to have
this done without five or six boxes and blanking plates in the ceiling
and wall.

Is there anything really wrong with soldering and heat-shrinking, (maybe
double up on the heat-shrinking) the wires?

Where I can (inside of cabinets I will go the box route), but the others?
not so much. I am open to boxes without covers and buried (for ever).?


Comments and Opinions?



Bill

 

[Stuart in MN]

The short answer is no.

 

[The Cobbler]

by no means an electrician here, but knowing that many fires are caused by electrical , and you knowing there is a code in place, (and for obvious reasons), why do you ask such questions...

 

[MikeinNorthWales]

Forgive me, but this comes across as troll-like...

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[billrigsby]

Forgive me, but this comes across as troll-like...

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

?????

 

[billrigsby]

why do you ask such questions...

Well if this were in a garage I might not, but this is in a living room,
is it at all acceptable to splice in a box, but not have the box accessible?


Bill

 

[Musicinabottle]

Well if this were in a garage I might not, but this is in a living room,
is it at all acceptable to splice in a box, but not have the box accessible?


Bill

Not by code. This matters because if you ever sell the place, then you have to disclose it, or it can come back on you. What amount of wires are we talking about, and how far away to other boxes that ARE staying or the electrical panel, for replacing the wires?

 

[ddawg16]

Wire is cheap.....and there are good reasons for the code.....

Do it right....

 

[rlitman]

Well if this were in a garage I might not, but this is in a living room,
is it at all acceptable to splice in a box, but not have the box accessible?

Bill

No, but you're asking the wrong question...

Not by code. This matters because if you ever sell the place, then you have to disclose it, or it can come back on you. What amount of wires are we talking about, and how far away to other boxes that ARE staying or the electrical panel, for replacing the wires?

This for example:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-A22899-000/202204326

is UL Listed to splice two Romex (NM) 12-2 or 14-2 cables and be hidden in a wall. So, with a Listed splice kit, there are options to bury a splice. But there are no options to bury a box.

Now the splice kit in the link above has one cable in, and one cable out. If you need a T connection, then there are other kits for that.

 

[MadMechMaster]

Accessible attic above?

 

[gicts]

An option could be to put junction boxes on the wall of the cabinets (and of course still have them accessible).

 

[wyliesdiesels]

NEVER bury a junction box in the wall.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Just do it right, go back to the last j-box and replace the wire with wire the correct size and be done.

 

[theoldwizard1]

YES, you can do a NM-B wire splice buried in a wall !
• NEC compliant (Article 334-40b, 2005 and 2008)
• UL and CSA listed


Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit, 2 Wire (plus ground)

They have versions for 3 wire AND a tap !

This saved my bacon on a recent kitchen remodel. Previous owner had butchered the wiring and had splices with wire nuts buried. These fixed everything.

 

[Lassen Forge]

NEVER bury a junction box in the wall.

Because when you want or need to go back into it you need to rip up a wall to find it and fix it, and when you or a subsequent property owner dries a nail through it and shorts themselves out...

Yeah Just don't. Please. They make decorative covers for this...

Me? I'd just run new wire. When you look at the consequence of this junction corroding in 50 years and getting hot, well... just not worth it.

 

[billrigsby]

Accessible attic above?

Unfortunately - NO

An option could be to put junction boxes on the wall of the cabinets (and of course still have them accessible).

That I am going to do, it is the ceiling wires that will be too short.

NEVER bury a junction box in the wall.

Got it!

Just do it right, go back to the last j-box and replace the wire with wire the correct size and be done.

I thought about that, worst thing that could happen when re-pulling
wire through the ceiling is loosing my pull cable and then having to
opening up the sheet rock.

No, but you're asking the wrong question...

This for example:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-A22899-000/202204326

is UL Listed to splice two Romex (NM) 12-2 or 14-2 cables and be hidden in a wall. So, with a Listed splice kit, there are options to bury a splice. But there are no options to bury a box.

Now the splice kit in the link above has one cable in, and one cable out. If you need a T connection, then there are other kits for that.

YES, you can do a NM-B wire splice buried in a wall !
• NEC compliant (Article 334-40b, 2005 and 2008)
• UL and CSA listed


Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit, 2 Wire (plus ground)

They have versions for 3 wire AND a tap !

This saved my bacon on a recent kitchen remodel. Previous owner had butchered the wiring and had splices with wire nuts buried. These fixed everything.

This seems like the route to go,
Food for thought and grounds for further research

 

[Bert_]

YES, you can do a NM-B wire splice buried in a wall !
• NEC compliant (Article 334-40b, 2005 and 2008)
• UL and CSA listed


Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit, 2 Wire (plus ground)

They have versions for 3 wire AND a tap !

This saved my bacon on a recent kitchen remodel. Previous owner had butchered the wiring and had splices with wire nuts buried. These fixed everything.

Unless this is better than the versions I've seen then I would never be caught using one. Legal yes, but it reminded me of the push in connectors on outlets. Not something I would want to be inaccessible in a wall.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Unless this is better than the versions I've seen then I would never be caught using one. Legal yes, but it reminded me of the push in connectors on outlets. Not something I would want to be inaccessible in a wall.

unlike backstabbed outlets, Ive never heard of or seen one fail so im not gonna dog them. Convince me otherwise

 

[Musicinabottle]

YES, you can do a NM-B wire splice buried in a wall !
• NEC compliant (Article 334-40b, 2005 and 2008)
• UL and CSA listed


Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit, 2 Wire (plus ground)

They have versions for 3 wire AND a tap !

This saved my bacon on a recent kitchen remodel. Previous owner had butchered the wiring and had splices with wire nuts buried. These fixed everything.

They use them in mobile homes, but I'd be leery.

 

[theoldwizard1]

This seems like the route to go,
Food for thought and grounds for further research

I actually bought an extra one and have it "in stock" at Dad's garage hardware store !

 

[theoldwizard1]

unlike backstabbed outlets, Ive never heard of or seen one fail so im not gonna dog them. Convince me otherwise

From what I read, these were approved for modular homes awhile back (10-20 years ?). They proved their reliability and got brought in for general (probably non commercial only) use. Kind of like Mobil Home Feeder (MHF) cable. Proved in the field, now general usage (within limits).

 

[Norcal]

They use them in mobile homes, but I'd be leery.

I would rather have any splices accessible, just out of my comfort zone to bury them in a wall.

Mobile homes are absolutely the bottom of the line when it comes to dwellings, built as cheap as they can get away with. You can fill them with upgraded appliances, nicer finishes, but underneath they still cheap, to paraphrase others, like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I've heard of those in-wall splices but have never seen one in person. Depending on where you live I've heard they may not be allowed by local codes, so it would best to check first.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

They use them in mobile homes, but I'd be leery.

They use them often in RV’s as well for the 120V AC wiring, I replaced at least a few that had poor connections.

UL listed, sure. I wouldnt be caught using one, and I wouldn’t recommend one unless they were willing to open up the wall at some point if it fails. I know my wire nut or Wago splices in a box won’t fail for no reason.

 

[rburke65]

No. Do not bury a Junction box.

 

[yeldogt]

Seems like a good idea as long as they are not just friction fit -- do they use screws (like a back wire outlet) or a pressure lever like those new things ?

I have found some scary stuff buried in walls throughout the years

 

[rlitman]

Seems like a good idea as long as they are not just friction fit -- do they use screws (like a back wire outlet) or a pressure lever like those new things ?

I have found some scary stuff buried in walls throughout the years

If you're talking about the Tyco splice kit, the electrical connection to the wire is an insulation piercing fork. Each half pinches the wires under the insulation much like a 66 block does, with a plastic retention piece that holds the wire in the fork. It's kind of like a Scotchlok, but much beefier. This clicks closed in several places, and eventually screws help hold it closed.

A plastic clamp pinches the jacket, and the metal E holds the cable to prevent it from being pulled out. Then, each half clicks into the other half to make the connection.

I just did a few. If I have any more to do in the near future, I'll try to remember take some pics.

I trust them a little more than a Scotchlok. My feeling is that if it fails (a not unlikely proposition), it will at least fail safe (open) and not fail short. So, it won't burn your house down, but you may end up having to cut holes to fix down the road.

 

[Bert_]

I wonder if someone make something similar to a UF splice that could be buried in a wall. That I might be comfortable with. A UF splice has brass terminals with setscrews that make a solid connection.

 

[jdieter]

No local code so I used UF splice kits in my remodel. Couldn't justify the expense of tearing apart a vaulted ceiling. Another option that I've used on switch legs are wireless switches, but the hot wire has to be present in the box with the fixture.