Splitting a 200 amp switch

[edl]

outside the garage (attached to house) there is the main power

it is split into 3 shutoff boxes, 2 for the house, 1 for an outbuilding) - one of the shutoff's is a 200 amp switch - so, it is a metal box (smallish) that when you open it there is one 200 amp breaker - open the cover to that and it is pretty simple - 4 wires in from the main service (black, red, white, green) and 4 out

what i would like to do is split this such at the same 200 amps goes to the house, but add another 100amp switch i can direct to the garage

the box i am referring to does have a knock out on the side, so i guess it was contemplated to have more than one output

is there such a switch that takes the main service in and has 2 switches (200amp and 100amp)?

thanks

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Post up pics so we can see what is going on

Hard to say without seeing it!

 

[edl]

here you go...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Do u have a pic of the inside of the trough?

Doesnt look like theres a disconnect after the meter so its weird that 4-wires were ran to each disconnect...Is there any ground rods or bonded water lines?

 

[edl]

W - not sure what the "trough" is?

yes there is a ground rod...maybe more than one, can't remember

 

[GT350Mike]

Are you trying to split your service to run power from your house panel to your garage? I think you are asking the same question I asked last year. My house has 2 200 amp breaker panels to service my house and I split the incoming power cables with three lugs similar to the one in the pic below to provide service to my 100 panel in my garage.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Where are the house panels in relation to these disconnects?

If you were to split one of the outputs from a 200 amp breaker, you would have to use wire rated for the full 200 amps (4/0 AL ?) since a 200 amp breaker would be protecting it.

Charles

 

[theoldwizard1]

W - not sure what the "trough" is?

The "trough" is that horizontal box underneath the 3 switch (disconnect) boxes. I would like to see whats inside of it also !

I would like to see inside of that meter box also. Its awfully big !

 

[theoldwizard1]

what i would like to do is split this such at the same 200 amps goes to the house, but add another 100amp switch i can direct to the garage

Install a 4th box with 100A switch/disconnect (Murray LW100CR) to the right of the first 3. Run conduit out of the bottom and into the horizontal box at the bottom. The box with breaker (switch) should cost less than $100.

The electrician will have to pull the meter, splice in the feed to the new box and then re-install the meter.

 

[C96]

Do u have a pic of the inside of the trough?

Doesnt look like theres a disconnect after the meter so its weird that 4-wires were ran to each disconnect...Is there any ground rods or bonded water lines?

I’m going to say the neutral has been grounded and bonded in the 400 amp meter section.

The small conduit going out the bottom of the meter section on the left side is most likely the grounding electrode conductor.

The "trough" is that horizontal box underneath the 3 switch (disconnect) boxes. I would like to see whats inside of it also !

I would like to see inside of that meter box also. Its awfully big !

Install a 4th box with 100A switch/disconnect (Murray LW100CR) to the right of the first 3. Run conduit out of the bottom and into the horizontal box at the bottom. The box with breaker (switch) should cost less than $100.

The electrician will have to pull the meter, splice in the feed to the new box and then re-install the meter.

Lol… The picture is upside-down, if it wasn’t he would have other problems.

When I first saw the picture I thought WTF, made some comments and then realized it was just displayed wrong, had to rescind my thoughts...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

What you need is the exact same disconnect, with a set of stabs for two to six additional circuit breakers. I'm sure Siemens makes them (Murray is nothing but Siemens products with the Murray name attached). It would probably be the same outside box, with a different interior, with the same main breaker, but with a couple of short bus bars and knockouts for additional breakers. You connect the existing wires going out to the house panel to lugs, and then install a 100 breaker on the stabs and take those wires and go to the garage.

I cannot find such a panel right now. I guess it is technically a load center if it has additional breakers in it.

Here is the link to the cut sheet for the existing disconnects.

https://extranet.w3.siemens.com/us/...LoadCentersMurray/LW100CR_LW200VR_LW004VR.pdf

 

[theoldwizard1]

What you need is the exact same disconnect, with a set of stabs for two to six additional circuit breakers.
.
.
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I cannot find such a panel right now. I guess it is technically a load center if it has additional breakers in it.

Which is why I recommended just adding a fourth 100A box (Siemens/Murray LW100CR).

 

[edl]

to all - thanks!

i get it now

and sorry that the pictures came out upside down...wasn't meaning to confuse anyone

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I’m going to say the neutral has been grounded and bonded in the 400 amp meter section.

The small conduit going out the bottom of the meter section on the left side is most likely the grounding electrode conductor.

Lol… The picture is upside-down, if it wasn’t he would have other problems.

When I first saw the picture I thought WTF, made some comments and then realized it was just displayed wrong, had to rescind my thoughts...

Yes i assumed the same thing. However, that would be incorrect as theres no disconnect there. Furthermore, MOST PoCos do not allow and do not like GEC in meter pans, CT boxes and service drop feed throughs as theyre suppose to be sealed with a meter tag and inaccesable. So i would be kind of surprised if what u and i are assuming is true. This is just the reason why id like to see whats going on in the trough/gutter...

And yes that meter pan is big enough to be a CT cabinet!

 

[madosta]

Jeez money bags, what's the outbuilding a 2500 sq ft cigar room?! LOL!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Huh? What u talkin about Willis?

 

[edl]

ok...so i just figured out i was going at this the hard way

on the inside of the garage sits the panel for the house - meaning, the picture up above of that 200amp breaker that is on the outside wall of the garage, it runs straight through the wall into the inside of the garage and the 200 amp multi-breaker panel sits there

so, i should just put a 100amp breaker into 2 of the slots and drop a 100amp subpanel right next to it and wire up the garage that way

researching the threads here, i have read that when you are dropping a sub into the "same building", you do not need a separate grounding rod - would i be correct that this qualifies and that no grounding rod is needed?

if so, i would need black red from new 100 amp breaker in existing panel to 100 amp switch in new subpanel - white from neutral bar to neutral bar - green from ground bar to ground bar - is that all correct?

from the threads, it appears i will need 4 gauge copper wire - does something like (3) 4 AWG and (1) 6 AWG Bare Ground, SER, 600V, Copper Conductor, PVC Jacket sound correct?

the existing panel is in the wall - so the above wiring would leave the existing panel and travel about a foot within the wall and then it exits the wall and a foot or two on the surface of the wall until it enters the new subpanel - the new subpanel will be on the surface of the wall - am i correct that the portion inside the wall is fine loose (meaning no conduit) and the portion outside the wall needs to be in conduit?

- and is it ok to use the same bundle of wires inside the conduit (even though not required)?

thanks!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes thats correct, no rod needed since same building

#4 CU is too small, only goes to 85a. U need #3 CU which 100a. #8 is the minimum needed for the EGC.

This should work for u: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-3-3-3-5-CU-SER-Service-Entrance-Cable-27757403/202250390

SER can be surface mounted unless subject to damage. However i would put it in conduit anyways cause it looks better

Make sure neutral bar is isolated from ground bar and enclosure

Not sure what u mean by:

- and is it ok to use the same bundle of wires inside the conduit (even though not required)?

 

[edl]

thanks W

you answered it

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Can u post a pic of the gutter/trough with the cover off?