Splitting a 240v outlet

[Michal]

I have a 240 outlet in the garage, but there is a wire running from the wall oven (directly behind) that is plugged in. Is there a way to spilt it into 2 outlets so I could buy a bigger compressor?

Thanks,
Michal

 

[mrb]

wait, so the cord for the wall oven comes out of the wall in your garage and plugs into the receptacle in your garage?

 

[Michal]

Exactly. Here are some pics:

 

[mrb]

wow. you need to get a licensed electrican in there to fix that mess before you think about adding anything.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Now that is unique.....You need to get an electrician out to your house and run another circuit and fix what you have.

 

[nate379]

Whoah! Looks like something from that "there I fixed it" website.

 

[Michal]

Believe it or not, that's how the original wall oven was wired back in '95. So what would the electrician do? Put in a junction box behind the wall?

 

[96Mustang460cid]

I have taken one side of a 240 volt receptacle and installed a 110 volt nearby. Is the poster's situation dangerous because of the jerry-rigged nature of the install? Or, is it considered unsafe to pull off a 240 volt outlet?

Have a good day!
Michael

 

[nate379]

The outlet may have been wired like that in 95, but what is the deal with the BX cable on a plug and then that going into the garage?

 

[mrb]

i think the BX cable is the whip coming out of the appliance. Its usually hardwired with a disconnect somewhere.

 

[mrb]

I have taken one side of a 240 volt receptacle and installed a 110 volt nearby. Is the poster's situation dangerous because of the jerry-rigged nature of the install? Or, is it considered unsafe to pull off a 240 volt outlet?

Have a good day!
Michael

when you did this, what was the amperage of the circuit supplying the 240v receptacle?

 

[Michal]

i think the BX cable is the whip coming out of the appliance. Its usually hardwired with a disconnect somewhere.

Yes the cable is directly from the oven, do the wire have to be in the wall or can in be run in conduit?

How would you do this? My dad is a licensed electrician but has only done wiring for our previous house and does not know how to best go about this... He said he can get it done, just wants to know the best way. It's been on the "project" list for a little while.

 

[mrb]

Yes the cable is directly from the oven, do the wire have to be in the wall or can in be run in conduit?

How would you do this? My dad is a licensed electrician but has only done wiring for our previous house and does not know how to best go about this... He said he can get it done, just wants to know the best way. It's been on the "project" list for a little while.

ive been trying to figure out how to rectify this without having to pull the oven out. First, dig out your instructions for that oven and see if the whip is supposed to have a plug installed on it or if its supposed to be hardwired into a box.

Also remember that wall between the garage and kitchen is a fire rated wall and that rating must be maintained when you make holes in it.

 

[Michal]

The plug was added by the oven installers, there was a metal box before and the oven should be hard-wired.

 

[Grumpy365]

First get a "old work box" and cut it int he Sheetrock. Pull the wire into the box so you don't have the wire coming out thru the Sheetrock.

Then install a plug in the box or terminate it however the manufacturer recommends.

Then jump out of the box to the garage.

Good luck.

 

[mrb]

First get a "old work box" and cut it int he Sheetrock. Pull the wire into the box so you don't have the wire coming out thru the Sheetrock.

Then install a plug in the box or terminate it however the manufacturer recommends.

Then jump out of the box to the garage.

Good luck.

is cutting an old work box into the garage wall going to compromise the fire rating? Im not an expert on that.

The appliance whip shouldnt be passing through the wall.

i would rework things to get the oven whip terminating into a box mounted in the bottom cabinet to the right of the oven.

Last, you cant supply anything else from the oven circuit anyways....has to be dedicated circuit.

 

[truckman5000]

that appliance whip should terminate in the cabinet next to it, or run to the basemet with a accesible shut of/switch.
So "i" would keep that plug you have in the garadge for the compressor. "if" the correct #size wire is run to it, and serves the rite size breaker for the compressor. I.E 30 amp breaker should be #10 guage wire. Check what the compressor needs for power.

Then add a breaker to the pannel for the stove and run a wire to the underside cabinet, route the stove wire to the new outlet. With the correct size wire and breaker.
You will need 2 extra spaces in the elec box, and it sould be enough service if the home is within 20 years old or so. Or you will need to ad a sub. pannell, or replace the service if the electrician sais it isnt enough..

 

[Michal]

The main panel is full (hot tub, stove, oven, dryer, sub panel) but the sup panel has 5 slots, do you think the above is still a good plan? The main panel is a 200amp, not sure about the sub panel. Here are some pictures. Sorry for the sideways pics.

 

[Grumpy365]

is cutting an old work box into the garage wall going to compromise the fire rating? Im not an expert on that.

The appliance whip shouldnt be passing through the wall.

i would rework things to get the oven whip terminating into a box mounted in the bottom cabinet to the right of the oven.

Last, you cant supply anything else from the oven circuit anyways....has to be dedicated circuit.

Is it a firewall?

The term firewall generally revolves around a wall built with fire rated Sheetrock and have a time rating associated (1hour, 2 hour, etc).

In Houston and surrounding areas we don't have this requirement. (especially in a 10+ year old house).

Is this an issue in NC?

 

[Michal]

Is it a firewall?

The term firewall generally revolves around a wall built with fire rated Sheetrock and have a time rating associated (1hour, 2 hour, etc).

In Houston and surrounding areas we don't have this requirement. (especially in a 10+ year old house).

Is this an issue in NC?

Don't believe so as there was an intercom in there at one point, just a hole with an intercom stuffed inside.

 

[MrMark]

You can have outlets in the firewall. There are rules on this that allow a certain number. I looked this up once. Still, as Mrb said, you can't penetrate a wall with an appliance whip. You need to take out the oven and install a proper dedicated ciruit and metal box for the oven. I have a feeling the metal box has a cover with a knock out that receives the appliance whip connector. The box would be flushed into the sheetrock and the connection made through the cover.

 

[mrb]

Is it a firewall?

The term firewall generally revolves around a wall built with fire rated Sheetrock and have a time rating associated (1hour, 2 hour, etc).

In Houston and surrounding areas we don't have this requirement. (especially in a 10+ year old house).

Is this an issue in NC?

its been building code for as long as I can remember, maybe someone can look up when it was first introduced, any walls and ceiling common to the garage and living space have to be drywalled with 1/2" on the walls and 5/8" on the ceiling mudded and taped, and the door has to be solid with a 20 min rating and be auto closing. Some jurisdictions have more restrictions.

 

[mrb]

You can have outlets in the firewall. There are rules on this that allow a certain number. I looked this up once. Still, as Mrb said, you can't penetrate a wall with an appliance whip. You need to take out the oven and install a proper dedicated ciruit and metal box for the oven. I have a feeling the metal box has a cover with a knock out that receives the appliance whip connector. The box would be flushed into the sheetrock and the connection made through the cover.

there is a limitation on the total sq/in of opening in each cavity, and you cant have anything back to back.

 

[MrMark]

there is a limitation on the total sq/in of opening in each cavity, and you cant have anything back to back.

There you go.

 

[MrMark]

I would like to know if there is any issue with installing multiple recepticles on a 240 v. circuit. I think it is OK, but wanted to verify. Not talking about the required dedicated oven run, but a general purpose 240 v. circuit like for a compressor or welder. So, I could string a couple 240 v. receptacles in parallel.

 

[Grumpy365]

its been building code for as long as I can remember, maybe someone can look up when it was first introduced, any walls and ceiling common to the garage and living space have to be drywalled with 1/2" on the walls and 5/8" on the ceiling mudded and taped, and the door has to be solid with a 20 min rating and be auto closing. Some jurisdictions have more restrictions.

I agree you have to have a solid door with a 20 min rating, and 1/2 " standard sheetrock on one side, but not both sides. My house was built 2 years ago and has osb on the garage side of the walls and is not constructed any different than the rest of the walls.

When i have built firewalls in commercial facility it is constructed of fire rated drywall (possibly multiple layers depending on the time rating)

A old work box wouldn't bother me in the least. Which was his question.

 

[MrMark]

firewall varies. Here, where I live you need 5/8 firecode drywall on the inside of the garage (1/2 in the inside of the house) where it separates the living quarters. Same on the garage ceiling if dwelling space over the garage.

 

[mrb]

I would like to know if there is any issue with installing multiple recepticles on a 240 v. circuit. I think it is OK, but wanted to verify. Not talking about the required dedicated oven run, but a general purpose 240 v. circuit like for a compressor or welder. So, I could string a couple 240 v. receptacles in parallel.

no problem at all. There is a code section that if a circuit serves a load with an amperage greater than 50% of the circuit ampacity it needs a dedicated circuit. I will try to find the code section later.

 

[mrb]

I would like to know if there is any issue with installing multiple recepticles on a 240 v. circuit. I think it is OK, but wanted to verify. Not talking about the required dedicated oven run, but a general purpose 240 v. circuit like for a compressor or welder. So, I could string a couple 240 v. receptacles in parallel.

i think this is what I was thinking of
Equipment fastened in place (not a luminaire) must not be rated more than 50% of the branch-circuit ampere rating if this circuit supplies luminaries, other receptacles, or both [210.23(A)(2).


so for example if you have a non-portable air compressor that needs a 30 amp / 240v circuit, you cant have a second receptacle on that circuit.

if you have a portable welder that needs a 50 amp / 240v circuit, you could have multiple 6-50 receptacles on this circuit.

 

[79firebird]

When i was working for a cleanup co to clean up after fires we had a adapter that we would plug into a stove plug had 2 feet of wire on it into a box that had 2 range plugs on it. one side sead stove the outher sead to braker panel. The one that went to the mini panel we used to power our dryers and what not would turn off if the range was turned on. Not shure where they got it from tho

 

[MrMark]

i think this is what I was thinking of
Equipment fastened in place (not a luminaire) must not be rated more than 50% of the branch-circuit ampere rating if this circuit supplies luminaries, other receptacles, or both [210.23(A)(2).


so for example if you have a non-portable air compressor that needs a 30 amp / 240v circuit, you cant have a second receptacle on that circuit.

if you have a portable welder that needs a 50 amp / 240v circuit, you could have multiple 6-50 receptacles on this circuit.

Good info there, thank you.

 

[mrb]

When i was working for a cleanup co to clean up after fires we had a adapter that we would plug into a stove plug had 2 feet of wire on it into a box that had 2 range plugs on it. one side sead stove the outher sead to braker panel. The one that went to the mini panel we used to power our dryers and what not would turn off if the range was turned on. Not shure where they got it from tho

that device was probably something someone made. What would you do when you encountered a 3 wire range receptacle?

 

[79firebird]

it wasent home made we had 15 of them and it had a csa aproved sticker on it. ill try to see if i can find some info out on it today

 

[knobby]

that device was probably something someone made. What would you do when you encountered a 3 wire range receptacle?

We do not have three wire range receptacles in Canada go figure (CSA says no)