Spoiled by access to CNC waterjet

[Mesozoic]

I have found myself to be in a 1st world dilemma, where my ability to access some CNC machinery that I'm able to use for personal projects is ending. The corporation I'm employed by is downsizing and closing the local facility, so I will go to full remote work or move on, potentially (unclear at this point). Primarily, the CNC I use the most is the waterjet system in my engineering lab, followed by the powdercoating system and the CNC brake. The waterjet is an Omax Maxiem machine and consumes half of the floor space in our machine shop. It is an excellent cutting tool and can be loaded with very large sheets of materials. It also features a tilt head and is extremely simple to operate. It cost us about $200K installed and I don't have a use for a machine of its size in my homelab, but I could certainly accomodate a smaller machine although that pricepoint is far beyond my budget.

What alternatives do I have to perform the same function? I have previously looked at purchasing a smaller (say 4'x6' CNC table) that works with a handheld plasma cutter before. Laser cutters are another option, but significantly more expensive. My use case is pretty basic, being mainly to produce custom brackets and pieces used in my hot rodding and motorcycle hobby. The materials I use are normally aluminum (5052, 2024 or 6061) or some kind of steel sheet, including stainless.

 

[bl00]

There are probably local shops that do this as a service. If not there are big commercial ones like send cut send or oshcut that will ship your parts to you.

Here's one in Tucson https://emjetllc.com/

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

What's your budget? Lots of options these days to send out a drawing and have parts shipped to you; that's probably the way to go unless you have enough volume to justify a machine OR just want to have the ability to do it in house.

I have a CNC plasma table that I picked up used. I have about $2k into it not including the plasma cutter.

 

[Mesozoic]

What's your budget? Lots of options these days to send out a drawing and have parts shipped to you; that's probably the way to go unless you have enough volume to justify a machine OR just want to have the ability to do it in house.

I have a CNC plasma table that I picked up used. I have about $2k into it not including the plasma cutter.

I'm not 100% sure yet because I'm not clear on what a realistic number is. I would need to be able to load the typical metal sheet, which is normally about 2' x 3' or larger. The table size seems like it will dictate the base value. I'm thinking a water bed is absolutely necessary, as is torch height control and more. There is one aspect of my situation that will likely benefit me, however. It appears that I may be able to walk away with some of the machine shop equipment, including a Hypertherm cutter and some other supplies. Regardless, it doesn't look like you can get setup for much less than $5K.

 

[Old tool guy]

Does the cnc waterjet stay busy? Could you set up a small business and use it to make parts?

 

[steel 35]

Save your tickets; That water jet may be on the chopping block!
Sounds well used

 

[Mesozoic]

At a cost of $200K, I don't think I'm going to bid on the machine. Besides, it is absolutely enormous.

 

[strength_and_power]

Companies like Send Cut Send, Laser Bros and a few others can cut from your file and have the parts on your door in a reasonable time. And they get to deal with machine maintenance, getting rid of the drops, stocking various material thicknesses and types. It really depends on your volume. Not sure where you are located but you may look and see if there are any “maker space “ facilities in your area. You pay a monthly fee that can sometimes be offset if you teach a course to other members, volunteer etc.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

I'm not 100% sure yet because I'm not clear on what a realistic number is. I would need to be able to load the typical metal sheet, which is normally about 2' x 3' or larger. The table size seems like it will dictate the base value. I'm thinking a water bed is absolutely necessary, as is torch height control and more. There is one aspect of my situation that will likely benefit me, however. It appears that I may be able to walk away with some of the machine shop equipment, including a Hypertherm cutter and some other supplies. Regardless, it doesn't look like you can get setup for much less than $5K.

For material 4x8 & 5x10 are both standard full sheet sizes. My table is 4x4 so I buy half sheets from my supplier along with smaller remnants. Ideally I'd rather have a 4x8 table but the budget and shop size didn't get along with that idea. Even the 4x4 table is slightly over 5x5 as it sits on the floor.

I don't have a water table but am planning to either build one or a downdraft system with exhaust fans. For now I just open the door and it works well enough for my limited use. I do have auto torch height control and agree that's pretty much mandatory (it was broken when I got the machine and I nearly gave up on using the table before I got it fixed).

 

[RoninB4]

Something else to keep in mind is the disposal of the swarf. When I was working at one facility that had and used the WJ they had a growing collection of 55 gallon drums full of swarf. Could not take them to the landfill (illegal) and it was expensive to have hauled away. Another company that used the WJ daily paid to have the tank cleaned out 2 times a year IIRC. It took almost all day and it wasn't cheap. Just something to consider.

 

[Mesozoic]

I can't accomodate a table larger than 5'x5' based on the space in my garage. I don't think I would be cutting parts often enough to accumulate more swarf than a manual cutting operation, but that's an interesting point. Perhaps once or twice a month I may need to fab some brackets for something, but that's optimistic.

How does the water table function? Does it need to be filled everytime the machine is used or is the idea to just leave water in the table perpetually?

The ventilation aspect of things is something I had put some thought into when I built my garage, so I've got this giant Broan-Nutone L2000L unit that needs to be installed, still. It's got 2 large squirrel cages driven by a single motor and can ventilate up to 2000 cfm, so I'm hoping that will help evacuate fumes. The reason I've not installed it is because Broan discontinued production of the unit. I need the D-100 damper kit which is impossible to find now, so I'm looking at fabricating my own dampers instead. Opening up the bay doors is probably part of this equation until I complete that project.

I have the compressed air part taken care of as well as the power (although max power I can support is 240V-1P @ 40A). I added a dryer and filtration to the compressed air system, so hopefully that will be useful when operating the plasma. The thickest material I would cut would probably be around 5/8" and even that would be quite rare.

 

[slodat]

I have a 4x8 Shop Sabre CNC plasma with a Hypertherm Powermax 85. It runs parts pretty much every day. I made a water bladder to manage to water table. It was quite simple and has worked flawlessly. I can drain the table, let it dry out, then vacuum up what’s left.

CNC plasma does not yield near the edge quality that an Omax water jet will provide. It’s a far cry. It’s acceptable for the parts I’m making for the respective clients. CNC plasma is the entry point in my opinion. For what you are describing your use case as, the Langmuir plasma tables may be a great fit.

It sounds like a little planning and you could be quite happy with Oshcut or similar.

 

[dr_clyde]

You’re going to be disappointed if you’re used to waterjet quality and step down to plasma. The quality is not even close to comparable.

You would be much happier sending drawings to a job shop with a laser or waterjet.

Plasma is very much a cheap down and dirty tool compared to modern fiber lasers and waterjets and that inexpensive price tag comes a a severe downside.

If I was you I’d have some sample parts cut on a similar plasma system and make sure you’re happy with it. Especially holes.

 

[cnc-me]

Send Cut Send does a nice job, fairly fast too.

 

[Mesozoic]

You’re going to be disappointed if you’re used to waterjet quality and step down to plasma. The quality is not even close to comparable.

You would be much happier sending drawings to a job shop with a laser or waterjet.

Plasma is very much a cheap down and dirty tool compared to modern fiber lasers and waterjets and that inexpensive price tag comes a a severe downside.

If I was you I’d have some sample parts cut on a similar plasma system and make sure you’re happy with it. Especially holes.

With the waterjet pieces I've cut, I've ended up putting them in the mill to clean up the edges and chamfering the edges already. With finish work required regardless, is the plasma cut really that bad? I think the machining accuracy I'm getting on something like 0.200" thick 5052 is like 0.001" with the Omax. I was thinking that it would perhaps be a bit less accurate on the plasma, but should clean up with some finish drilling and milling, no? The heat tempered edges caused by the plasma cut aren't of any major concern to me in my applications.

The stuff I'm doing is basically modifications to retrofit engines, like fabricating a crank sensor mount, sheetmetal for adapting an electric fan conversion and making a new shroud, etc. Right now, I'm in need of fabricating a sheetmetal plate to go on the firewall of an old Mustang to adapt the throttle cable/pedal assembly from another model and incorporate a few extra holes. I figured a plasma cutter could easily handle this with good accuracy, but I have no idea because I've never used one!

Fortunately, I've discovered that I can print to paper using 100% scale and it's dead accurate as a paper template, so I'm able to iterate fairly quickly this way without having to waste any metal material. I hear what folks are saying about sending out to a thirdparty, but I work in R&D and I'm not sure I can live without some kind of CNC cutting tool. The laser is out of my price range with a pricepoint that begins at like $30K. The waterjet is the same, but more expense and then it has the associated nightmare of support equipment. I think plasma CNC is probably my only choice if I'm staying within the $5-6K mark.

 

[loganb]

The First Desktop Waterjet Cutter | Now Cut Anything

The first waterjet in a compact package. Yet still industrial grade to cut steel, stone, tile and glass. Best of all, it’s also engineered for your budget.

wazer.com

Downside is it's $10k plus and cutting area is 12 x 18...

Otherwise, plasma table or send the work out to a local shop or something like sendcutsend.

If you have easy access to the files you had cut over the last 6 months or so, upload them to sendcutsend and see what it would have cost you...their quote tool is easy. And remember your paying them for machine time and material.

Then figure what material cost for you to source raw material locally is, that difference gives you an idea of the cost/savings potential if you do it yourself. A burn table and material storage takes up a significant space and based on Hypertherm's site the gases for aluminum are often different then steel....something to be aware of

 

[Beelzeboss]

I think the machining accuracy I'm getting on something like 0.200" thick 5052 is like 0.001" with the Omax. I was thinking that it would perhaps be a bit less accurate on the plasma, but should clean up with some finish drilling and milling, no? The heat tempered edges caused by the plasma cut aren't of any major concern to me in my applications.

The plasma would be very lucky to hit 0.010" in my experience. You also tend to have trouble with small holes, to the point that it's easier just to drill them by hand. As for allowing it to run unattended it's possible, but depending on your bed when you finish cutting a piece it can half fall down and stick up, crashing the machine, so I never let mine go without supervision.

 

[Mesozoic]

Of course, researching tools is tons of fun, so I've been looking closely at what the compact garage/hobbyist options are. I've narrowed the table down to either a Premier Plasma CNC or STV CNC table since both produce good quality tables in a 2'x4' cutting area, which is about the size I need for the various small bits and pieces I'm interested in fabricating. The Premier unit does not seem to have a gear reduction drive for the motor axes while the STV does, so that may be a deciding factor right there between the 2.

For the cutter, I've had my eyes on the Everlast 82i for many years as it appears to be a good quality unit for homelab use. I think I could have the whole setup for around $6K or less. I would need to upgrade the water pan with some air bubblers since I would definitely be cutting aluminum.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

If you're used to .001" accuracy, I can't imagine you'll be happy with a plasma table.

Though the real question is what accuracy do you NEED for the parts you'll be making? +/-.001", +/-.005", +/- 1/16"?

A plasma table IMO is much more at home in a welding/fabrication shop than a machine shop if that helps to inform expectations.

 

[neophyte]

Is there some type of CNC sheet metal punch available affordably?

 

[Mesozoic]

Is there some type of CNC sheet metal punch available affordably?

Not sure about CNC, but an IronWorker does a pretty good job of just about anything, including punching.

I don't normally need anything more accurate than about 1/16", honestly. My homelab is far from a machine shop and more of a fabrication lab.

 

[neophyte]

Not sure about CNC, but an IronWorker does a pretty good job of just about anything, including punching.

I don't normally need anything more accurate than about 1/16", honestly. My homelab is far from a machine shop and more of a fabrication lab.

A cnc router, with a program that can set the right radius offsets, and a round die sheet metal nibbler can be used to cut patterns.
A router or trimmer, with the correct carbide burr, and template guides could be used to clean the edges.
This wouldn't necessarily work great for large quantity work, and wouldn’t work for small internal holes, but would work fine for low volume sheet metal.
Fein and Trumpf are the two major manufacturers of the round punch nibblers.

These are the Fein options.

BLK 2.0 E | FEIN Power Tools, Inc.

Compact nibbler with unlimited curve compatibility for corners and edges. Product number: 7 232 40 60 12 0

fein.com

Good for 2mm mild steel, and 1mm stainless.
Usually referred to as the “14 gauge nibbler”.

BLK 3.5 E | FEIN Power Tools, Inc.

Powerful nibbler with unlimited curve-compatibility for grooves and cut-outs. Product number: 7 232 46 61 09 0

fein.com

This is the Fein “10 gauge” nibbler.
Good for 3.5mm mild steel, and 1.8mm stainless.
The specifications for steel type fir both actually have to do with tendsile strength, so uou might be able to get away with a higher stainless gauge depending on steel type.

Trumpf likely makes the cutting heads, or at least the punch and dies for Fein, but Fein uses their own motors, and usually has a slightly better warrantee.

Dewalt and Metabo used to sell nibblers using Trumpf cutter heads, and may be cheaper.
Fein and Trumpf also make cordless versions, although usually more expensive.
Hilti has a cordless nibbler ghat likely also uses a Trumpf cutterhead, but Hilti only makes the cordless version.

SPN 6-22 CN Cordless nibbler - Specialty power tools - Hilti USA

Hilti Specialty power tools - SPN 6-22 CN Cordless nibbler - High-capacity cordless nibbler for cutting sheet metal and profiles with more speed and minimal distortion (Nuron battery platform)

www.hilti.com

There’s also the Heck Trace-A-Punch.

Trace-a-Punch® Duplicators | Heck Industries

See Heck Industries Latest Trace-a-Punch® Duplicators products, guaranteed best quality on the market at affordable prices.

heckind.net

You woild also need to make templates to gollow with this, and it might not be as good as a handheld nibbler.

None of these are automatic, and would be slower than a CNC laser or water jet, but the cost of entry is much lower, and nibblers tend to leave a smoother edge without the major heat effects of some other methods.

 

[steel 35]

I have a 4' x 8' and have thought about cutting it shorter a few times!
I liked two 5' pieces out of a 10' sheet & sometimes that was the only way I could get it.
Currently have a Router on works for me, Year's wondering how much life it has left
Have cut with water over the top, as you have.
Peck for center punch works very well with a plaz.
Drag blade's good
Rotary cutter is really crazy!