I've always been enamored by the "spotfreerinse" offered at my local DIY car wash places. It's something I ponder every time Iwave that rented wand around - water barel...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
I've always been enamored by the "spotfreerinse" offered at my local DIY car wash places. It's something I ponder every time Iwave that rented wand around - water barel...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
Zeke
Well-known member
I looked at these in earnest last year and crunched some numbers. No doubt the Spotless is the bomb, but as you wrote in your blog, it can cost quite a bit. In your case you figure $6 per wash and you aren't amortizing the cost of the unit nor its useful life.
My conclusion was not to buy one because of that kind of expense. But what is an alternative to a really good spotless rinse? Well, I see that distilled water can be bought in bulk for less than a dollar a gallon. Being conservative with the rinse process (think pouring out of a sprinkler can for the outer surfaces) and you can get a spotless rinse for easily half the price and not have to buy any equipment.
Thanks for the write up. I may still buy a little one as I have a black truck which is PITA because it needs to be washed 2wice a week.
My conclusion was not to buy one because of that kind of expense. But what is an alternative to a really good spotless rinse? Well, I see that distilled water can be bought in bulk for less than a dollar a gallon. Being conservative with the rinse process (think pouring out of a sprinkler can for the outer surfaces) and you can get a spotless rinse for easily half the price and not have to buy any equipment.
Thanks for the write up. I may still buy a little one as I have a black truck which is PITA because it needs to be washed 2wice a week.
Zeke
Well-known member
BTW, nice looking ride.
AP2TUDE
Well-known member
I have had my CR Spotless for probably 5-6 years now, and I wouldn't want to ever go without it.
Using a pressure washer will really help you get the most out of it's lifespan. The lower GPM output of the pressure washer extends the life of the resin considerably.
I found that the water I previously dealt with in Southern California was considerably harder than the water here in North Texas, so I would go through resin very quickly. Where I am now, the water isn't anywhere near as bad so my resin has lasted through 40 or 50 washes now.
If you take your vehicle cleanliness seriously, it is honestly a must have. No joke.
Using a pressure washer will really help you get the most out of it's lifespan. The lower GPM output of the pressure washer extends the life of the resin considerably.
I found that the water I previously dealt with in Southern California was considerably harder than the water here in North Texas, so I would go through resin very quickly. Where I am now, the water isn't anywhere near as bad so my resin has lasted through 40 or 50 washes now.
If you take your vehicle cleanliness seriously, it is honestly a must have. No joke.
Zeke
Well-known member
I had the pressure washer in mind, too. I would be using distilled water for it but I found out that PW's don't like gravity feed so much. They require some head pressure. Otherwise a cheap electric PW would be plenty sufficient.
AP2TUDE
Well-known member
I have a basic Karcher which I got from Amazon for less than $300. I know you can get by with something considerably less expensive however.
One of the keys to a system like this is managing the flow rate. If you are using the system with a standard hose nozzle, it needs to be on a lower flow setting if the system is going to be as effective as possible. The higher the flow, the lower the filtration efficiency.
volvo
Well-known member
Save $130, same system at Costco.
http://www.costco.com/CR-SPOTLESS-De-Ionizing-Spotless-Water-System™.product.11762647.html
Item #667322
Valid 1/27/16 through 2/14/16. While supplies last.
Online Price $429.99
Less -$60.00
Your Price $369.99
Shipping & Handling Included*
http://www.costco.com/CR-SPOTLESS-De-Ionizing-Spotless-Water-System™.product.11762647.html
Item #667322
Valid 1/27/16 through 2/14/16. While supplies last.
Online Price $429.99
Less -$60.00
Your Price $369.99
Shipping & Handling Included*
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AP2TUDE
Well-known member
I totally forgot to mention that. I bought mine from Costco online, but the resin is cheaper to buy directly from CR Spotless.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Maybe it's my eyes or the light, but I love the matte look on your Model A, Ryan, which is to be expected from an olive drab guy, I guess. BTW, in an age of ratrods and wildly divergent restorods, your classy, conservative, old school approach to that coupe is stunningly faithful and refreshing.Ryan said:
Oh, and thanks for the product review.
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gr8laker
Member
I re-plumbed my garage tap so it now comes off the softener/filter just for washing cars...cost $6 in some copper elbows and tee's...the other thing I found that also really helps is a water blade (or wedge or something like that) picked up about 15 yrs. ago. really soft flexible silicone hand squeegee that sort of molds itself to the body as you run it across, it has a lip on it and removes 100% of the water as you wipe it. forget where I got it, and I think it was fairly expensive (like $20), but it really works great and there is almost nothing left on the car except a drop or 2 where you miss or splash...anyone else use one of those? do they still make them?
I too used a CR Spotless system for many years. I was an early adopter 10 or more years ago. hooked up to go through the pressure washer. I used it when I lift at my parent's house because the public water was so hard. At my house, I have a well with well treated water. I didn't notice any difference in how the system worked...except that the resin lasted much longer at my house.
I don't use it anymore. I took the water to a friend's tropical fish store and we found that the de-ionizing made the water slightly more acidic. Can I say for sure it caused a problem...no? I know that if I left the water on the car and didn't try the car...I would get spots. These spots would not come of with detailer spray...but would wax off. This made me believe that it was etching the polish. I know it was worse in door jambs, etc. Using my regular water...I don't have that problem.
I now have my garage hose feed by the water from the water treatment in the hose, which had PH correction and a softener. I wash the car and often use a Master Blaster to blow off the majority of the water...towel the rest. I use some Duragloss Aquawax when drying which increases gloss and slickness at the same time.
I don't use it anymore. I took the water to a friend's tropical fish store and we found that the de-ionizing made the water slightly more acidic. Can I say for sure it caused a problem...no? I know that if I left the water on the car and didn't try the car...I would get spots. These spots would not come of with detailer spray...but would wax off. This made me believe that it was etching the polish. I know it was worse in door jambs, etc. Using my regular water...I don't have that problem.
I now have my garage hose feed by the water from the water treatment in the hose, which had PH correction and a softener. I wash the car and often use a Master Blaster to blow off the majority of the water...towel the rest. I use some Duragloss Aquawax when drying which increases gloss and slickness at the same time.
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Which water treatment system do you use and does it demineralize the water to make toweling off optional? I just polished with Wolfgang's Uber and Swirl remover and topped up with their Deep gloss paint sealant.
LegacyIndustrial
ALLIANCE MEMBER
This is a huge issue here in the sunshine state. Our water is less than stellar. I will be a customer soon. Thanks Ryan!
pmiranda
Well-known member
I bought a deionzer as used in labs for pure water supplies for half the cost. You'll have to mount it to something and it doesn't treat as much water before you have to replace the resin but I don't need a ton of water to wash a car:
http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/M..._housing_3_4_NPT_or_3_8_hose_barb/EW-01503-20
Edit: if you can keep the car wet until the final rinse and then blow it off with air none of this is necessary but when it's 90+ in the shade that's easier said than done. Especially since I usually take a long time to clean the wheels and that keeps getting water up on the car.
http://www.coleparmer.com/Product/M..._housing_3_4_NPT_or_3_8_hose_barb/EW-01503-20
Edit: if you can keep the car wet until the final rinse and then blow it off with air none of this is necessary but when it's 90+ in the shade that's easier said than done. Especially since I usually take a long time to clean the wheels and that keeps getting water up on the car.
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bulletpruf
Well-known member
I've always been enamored by the "spotfreerinse" offered at my local DIY car wash places. It's something I ponder every time Iwave that rented wand around - water barel...
To read the rest of this blog entry from The Garage Journal, click here.
Ryan -
Damn, that car is beautiful! Love the old school look with the wire wheels and flatty. Can you share details or post a link? Would love to see more pics and details on the build.
Thanks
Scott
OP
RaskyR1
Well-known member
I've been using the CR System for for years and love it. As others have mentioned flow rate is important for getting the most out of it. If you want to know your water hardness prior to buying the system you can pick up a TDS meter for about $10, which shows your PPM. Once you know that you'll have a better idea of how many gallons you'll get before the resin is exhausted. You can also buy a cubic ft of resin online for $160, which will fill the larger unit 3 times. Even though this system pulls all the minerals out of the water, you can still get spots if you let it air dry just from dust settling on the paint. They should be easy to remove though and will be a lot like rain water on a dusty car.
Unless you're washing in the sun, which to be honest is never a good idea, you can get away with only using the CR on the final rinse. This will extend the life of the resin considerably.
I would caution the use of water blades. It's not a matter of if they'll scratch the paint, but when. They are great for glass and wet sanding jobs though. I've had a few cars come in with long sweeping scratches and as soon as I saw them I asked the owners if they use a water blade. When they confirmed my suspicion I showed them the damage and the blade was in the garbage.
Also note that water softeners only exchange minerals, they won't reduce your PPM. That being said sodium spots are probably easier to remove then calcium.
Better option is to use the sheeting method when rinsing and then blowing the car dry with a blower like the Master Blaster.
Unless you're washing in the sun, which to be honest is never a good idea, you can get away with only using the CR on the final rinse. This will extend the life of the resin considerably.
I would caution the use of water blades. It's not a matter of if they'll scratch the paint, but when. They are great for glass and wet sanding jobs though. I've had a few cars come in with long sweeping scratches and as soon as I saw them I asked the owners if they use a water blade. When they confirmed my suspicion I showed them the damage and the blade was in the garbage.
Also note that water softeners only exchange minerals, they won't reduce your PPM. That being said sodium spots are probably easier to remove then calcium.
Better option is to use the sheeting method when rinsing and then blowing the car dry with a blower like the Master Blaster.
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greasyfingers01
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2015
- Messages
- 143
My dad used a cornelius keg for years as a Hudson Sprayer. If I recall correctly, he would fill it half full and prime it to 30-40 psi. It was more than enough to spray around the house and fence.
For less than $100 you could get a corny keg ($40), some miscellaneous fittings, and a spray wand. Load with distilled water, connect to air compressor. I'm sure you could get a good rinse on a smaller car with a gallon of water or less ($.80)
For less than $100 you could get a corny keg ($40), some miscellaneous fittings, and a spray wand. Load with distilled water, connect to air compressor. I'm sure you could get a good rinse on a smaller car with a gallon of water or less ($.80)
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bulletpruf
Well-known member
What a cool story!!!
Man, that is one beautiful car. The back story makes it even better.
Scott
The system we have for the whole house is made by Hague. There's one unit that is a filter and corrects the PH...and also a water softener. The softener is much like any other home would have. It does remove the hard water minerals and any water spots I get now easily wipe off with detail spray. Even months later.
Like I said above, I really wanted to like the Spotless system and used it for years. In fact, my first unit went to friends that have a body shop....and I upgraded to a newer unit. The later units have/had a TDS meter built in and the older ones had a light that came on to let you know the resin needed exchanging.
Anyhow, more power to ya if it works for you. For me, I'm happy with the Master Blaster and quick wipe with some Aquawax when I hit the remaining water.
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roc_on_the_rocks
Well-known member
n outstanding car!joel
Well-known member
It is my understanding that car washes recycle water. How common and to what extent it is processed I do not know.
As for tap water for everything except final rinse, that sounds logical to me...with 2 caveats. 1) The tap water is of good quality. At minimum I'd want a whole house sediment filter. And a softener as needed. 2) When mixing chemicals (such as rinseless concentrate to use as waterless wash) I use distilled water.
I've been using the CR System for for years and love it. As others have mentioned flow rate is important for getting the most out of it. If you want to know your water hardness prior to buying the system you can pick up a TDS meter for about $10, which shows your PPM. Once you know that you'll have a better idea of how many gallons you'll get before the resin is exhausted. You can also buy a cubic ft of resin online for $160, which will fill the larger unit 3 times. Even though this system pulls all the minerals out of the water, you can still get spots if you let it air dry just from dust settling on the paint. They should be easy to remove though and will be a lot like rain water on a dusty car.
Unless you're washing in the sun, which to be honest is never a good idea, you can get away with only using the CR on the final rinse. This will extend the life of the resin considerably.
I would caution the use of water blades. It's not a matter of if they'll scratch the paint, but when. They are great for glass and wet sanding jobs though. I've had a few cars come in with long sweeping scratches and as soon as I saw them I asked the owners if they use a water blade. When they confirmed my suspicion I showed them the damage and the blade was in the garbage.
Also note that water softeners only exchange minerals, they won't reduce your PPM. That being said sodium spots are probably easier to remove then calcium.
Better option is to use the sheeting method when rinsing and then blowing the car dry with a blower like the Master Blaster.
I've never had trouble with the water blade, I don't see how it could scratch anything, it is soft silicone, and a very thin lip, kind of like the hook on a scraper if you do woodworking. maybe people use them without washing the dirt of the car, or get dirt embedded in it somehow, but since I wash my car and rinse it before I use it, there is nothing there to scratch it...
what are your thoughts on using a chamois? that is what I learned to use at the body shop and what I used until I got the blade...always thought there was more potential to scratch with one of those, but again, never had any trouble...
I rigged up my own system at my last house. It was basically a RO system on steroids. I used 2 100gal/day RO filters that were fed by a large filter system. I used the big ~2' long 3" filters. 50-5um gradient -> 1um absolute -> dual carbon filters -> RO system. I had 30 gallons of capacity in my garage. I fed that into a air hose on a reel. I'd wash the car off with that for the last rinse. Works perfect. I use lots of ultrapure 18Mohm water at work. Dishes come out spotless every time. The key for getting a spot free finish without drying as all is to protect the car from dust. If you leave it outside, the dust in the air will collect and concentrate into "water spots". They brush off easily, but it's not spot free. My system worked great for chrome wheels. I plumbed it inside the house for great drinking water. This is way way cheaper than using DI filters that run out. The carbon filters I used would do something like 400,000gallons and cost $50. I'd run the RO filters for 3-6 years.
ive been using a big cr spotless for a few years as well. same one you have in the first pic. Ive gone through a few tubs of resin and get about 15-20 washes per resin change . i do 3 cars a wash (black cadillac cts-v, dark grey bmw 335i, and dark grey 2500 hd) I only use it for final rinse and it works awesome . though i just use it on the regular garden nozzle with the flat pattern so i limit flow. We have water that is about 450ppm here in so cal , very hard water. I love my cars though, the one thing i dont like is having to drain the resin if not using alot between washes .
joel
Well-known member
jgorm, I'd love more details and pics of your RO system on steroids. It sounds really nice!
This is all I have.
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I used housings like these.
http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=pentek-150233
I ran my whole house off of these. I ran the RO membranes after that for drinking and car washing water. You can convert small RO systems to do this by adding tanks. Even if it takes a few days to generate the full capacity, you can get by. To have something that can flow more than a trickle gets really expensive.
I used housings like these.
http://www.waterfiltersonline.com/detail.asp?product_id=pentek-150233
I ran my whole house off of these. I ran the RO membranes after that for drinking and car washing water. You can convert small RO systems to do this by adding tanks. Even if it takes a few days to generate the full capacity, you can get by. To have something that can flow more than a trickle gets really expensive.
James E
Well-known member
I don't doubt that the system works as Ryan says. I just have a hard time with that price. I could be talked into the system if it treated more gallons, but I'd be swapping filters constantly. On top of the $450, the recharges would eat me alive.
We have well water and serious minerals here--washing in the sun without drying off the car will leave awful spots in any paint. But, the fact is that some simple precautions will largely prevent that, and those precautions don't cost much.
Never wash in direct sunlight, rinse immediately after soaping and keep the whole car wet as you work your way around to the different body panels. Rinse with a full-flow hose (think a sheet of water, not a spray or jet) and dry off immediately.
Do those things and keep a good coat of wax or sealant on the paint and water spots can be kept at bay.
We have well water and serious minerals here--washing in the sun without drying off the car will leave awful spots in any paint. But, the fact is that some simple precautions will largely prevent that, and those precautions don't cost much.
Never wash in direct sunlight, rinse immediately after soaping and keep the whole car wet as you work your way around to the different body panels. Rinse with a full-flow hose (think a sheet of water, not a spray or jet) and dry off immediately.
Do those things and keep a good coat of wax or sealant on the paint and water spots can be kept at bay.
RaskyR1
Well-known member
The blade itself is fine, but it just takes that one spec of dust/dirt to get dragged across the paint by it to do some serious damage. Chamois are in the same boat, there is nowhere for the dirt particle to go if it gets lodged under it while drying. The best option is to use a blower or MF drying towels that have a nap which can pull the dirt particle away from the paint or at the very least lessen the damage it causes.
Like I said, it's not if it will happen, but when. I'd rather play it safe and spend the extra time then risk the damage.
Here is a pic from one of the cars that came in. These scratches were on a few of the panels and required wet sanding to remove.
Here was the other car that had scratches on all the top panels. The owner used the WB at car shows when it would rain (Obviously that's not the proper way to use it). While the car was likely spotless, the light dust that accumulated from sitting prior to the rain was all it took to scratch the paint.
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You do not need a cr spotless. Cr spotless systems are technically big deionizing systems. All you have to do is get the total dissolved solids (TDS) under 30-40 Which is considered spot free. A reverse osmosis will do that easily. Most will get the tds to 3-10. The problem with reverse osmosis system that is they dont produce quickly. 90-180 gallons per day. So you have to store the water than can easily plumb it into your pressure washer.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
I used to use the Mr. Clean Auto Dry setup. It worked pretty darn good. Too bad they discontinued it...
Tommy
Tommy
Howdy gang-
John from CR Spotless here after spending plenty of time drooling over all the 'man caves' y'all have built to house those toys that enhance our 'smiles per mile' ratio. Ryan hit me up a while back to check out our systems and I wanted to roll out with a public 'thank you' for acknowledging the stalwart design characteristic of our unit as 'built like a brick **** house'!
Also wanted to toss out a few quick notes- one being a benefit of the system is the TDS meter that tells you what the water quality is going out of the system- it will read 000ppm for 90-95% of resin life then the numbers will start to creep up. Once you see anything other than 000, keep an eye on it during your wash to ensure it does not exceed 020ppm at which point you either a) dry off the rat rod or b) change the resin.
A couple other quick pointers- yes, a pressure washer can save as much as 75% resin/water consumption. Here’s how that works- many PW’s are now as low as 1.2 gpm and this can be half of what gets dispensed out of a spray nozzle. It also usually takes half as many passes with a pressure washer wand across anything to get the same result as a spray nozzle. Viola- there’s your 75% reduction!
The best way to figure out how many gallons your system will produce is divide your water’s TDS count (you can flow water through the system w/o any cartridges and the meter will tell you your TDS) into 235,000. Then multiply this number by .33 (# of cuft resin in our larger system) and this will give you a good estimate.
Lastly- buy in bulk and this reduces the cost of the water to around 22-25 cents per gallon with average water quality. Doing this along with pressure washer use, good technique and not letting your kids have water wars with the pressure washer will give you all the smiles that the magic behind the science is meant to do.
And if y'all want some free resin- send us a (halfway decent) video of you using your CR Spotless system for us to post on our YouTube page and I’ll send you a free refill. And to up the ante, if it is the best video between now and June 1, it will get you a free DIC-20 (or I'll refund you your purchase price of the unit you now have). How sweet is that?
Keep crankin' out all the great garage toys and thanks for the read. You can hit me up at [email protected] with any questions, comments and smart remarks as well- I take 'em all.
~John
John from CR Spotless here after spending plenty of time drooling over all the 'man caves' y'all have built to house those toys that enhance our 'smiles per mile' ratio. Ryan hit me up a while back to check out our systems and I wanted to roll out with a public 'thank you' for acknowledging the stalwart design characteristic of our unit as 'built like a brick **** house'!
Also wanted to toss out a few quick notes- one being a benefit of the system is the TDS meter that tells you what the water quality is going out of the system- it will read 000ppm for 90-95% of resin life then the numbers will start to creep up. Once you see anything other than 000, keep an eye on it during your wash to ensure it does not exceed 020ppm at which point you either a) dry off the rat rod or b) change the resin.
A couple other quick pointers- yes, a pressure washer can save as much as 75% resin/water consumption. Here’s how that works- many PW’s are now as low as 1.2 gpm and this can be half of what gets dispensed out of a spray nozzle. It also usually takes half as many passes with a pressure washer wand across anything to get the same result as a spray nozzle. Viola- there’s your 75% reduction!
The best way to figure out how many gallons your system will produce is divide your water’s TDS count (you can flow water through the system w/o any cartridges and the meter will tell you your TDS) into 235,000. Then multiply this number by .33 (# of cuft resin in our larger system) and this will give you a good estimate.
Lastly- buy in bulk and this reduces the cost of the water to around 22-25 cents per gallon with average water quality. Doing this along with pressure washer use, good technique and not letting your kids have water wars with the pressure washer will give you all the smiles that the magic behind the science is meant to do.
And if y'all want some free resin- send us a (halfway decent) video of you using your CR Spotless system for us to post on our YouTube page and I’ll send you a free refill. And to up the ante, if it is the best video between now and June 1, it will get you a free DIC-20 (or I'll refund you your purchase price of the unit you now have). How sweet is that?
Keep crankin' out all the great garage toys and thanks for the read. You can hit me up at [email protected] with any questions, comments and smart remarks as well- I take 'em all.
~John
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dlewis
Well-known member
I've been using the CR Spotless system for a few years now and haven't had to order new resin yet. I bought the wall mounted unit which is also a little cheaper. Since I use this in conjunction with Optimum No Rinse, I use significantly less water. No complaints from me!
