To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Spray Foam Insulation

LuckyRugger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Mid-Michigan
I'm looking at getting my pole barn spray foamed, I'm going to go with closed cell. I don't recall the brand I'm going with, but it's used in both residential and commercial applications and has been for many years without any problems. I got a quote from a local installer for $4,100 to do my barn, 1728 sqft of walls at 2" thick and 1280 sqft of ceiling at 1/2" thick (spraying the top side of my ceiling from the attic). I'm heating my barn, so the better the insulation the cheaper my utility bill will be, so it will pay for itself. Plus with spray foam I can go with a lower rated R-value because the r-value of batt insulation is overstated.

Anybody have any suggestions or comments on my thoughts? Once spring gets here I'll get another quote or so, but do you think this price is good? How much would I spend to put up batt insulation?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

kb2tha

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
495
Location
Delaware County, NYS
Closed cell spray foam in my area is quoted at $.85/sf/inch of thickness. At that rate your job would come just shy of $3500.

If I had to guess what the difference of $600 would be I would ask if you have to pay sales tax? I didn't since it was considered a capital improvement. And I was originally wanting 1" sprayed and they were reluctant because they said that it is harder to control the thickness at 1" or less. I ended up spraying 3" and skipped the FG that I was planning to apply over the foam.

So perhaps part of the expense difference is due to spraying 1/2" over a broader area vs. say 2" over 1/4th the area.

I used the open cell at $.35/sf/inch and then applied rigid R7 over that. Blown FG in ceiling R49. 2" Blue rigid under slab.
Ken
 

socapots

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
544
Location
Canada
not sure about the spray foam.
But you should be able to frame the walls to hang the osb first. and they can spray around the framing.
 

milner351

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
205
Location
SE Michigan
I have icynene foam sprayed against the bottom of my metal roof and it's wood support structure. I have a 30x50 with 3-12 pitch roof. The cost was a bit over 2000 for the roof only - but it's at least 6" thick in most places. I did not have them cut the surface to finish it - since the rafters are open (to give enough head room for the hoist, forklift, etc)
I would recomend the spray foam - especially if you have a metal roof - it not only does a fabulous job of temperature insulation - but goes a long way at lowering noise levels - before the spray foam - a rain storm made my shop a painfully loud echo chamber - now - it's just a pleasant background noise.

Double check the insulation property per inch - I would go with several inches on your ceiling.
 

unluckyty

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
Messages
50
Location
Ohio
Had spray foam (closed cell) applied on my upstairs remodel. Insulates/ seals so much better than fibergllass bats. Open stairwell no heat upstairs only a 4 degree difference than rest of house. Well worth the initial investment. Initial ideal was to spray foam 2 inches, then fill the rest with R-15 fiberglass. After working upstairs for a few weeks in the winter, decided the spray foam was all I needed.

Greg
 

TurnipTruck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Messages
1,578
Location
Southcentral Alaska
I have a steel building with 3" of urethane (R21) and snow collects on the roof.
My brother has 6"+ of Icynene in his steel building and he NEVER has snow collect on his roof. It all melts off.
 

cowboyjosh

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
1,066
I had one of my homes that I built last year spray foamed, they learned about spray foam from Holmes on Homes; it was maybe a little less then double what bats would have cost. The job turned out alright, but many folks would rather have higher grade granite or hardwood then better windows or spray foam, so therefore my latest builds are all being insulated with bats.

What did impress me with spray foam is in the attic, everything was sealed, no gaps anywhere around wiring or plumbing penetrations, walls, etc. In the attic the insulation contractor then followed up with bats. This particular house was my first experience with spray foam in the attic.
 

tatra

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,785
Location
pirate contest city
new construction and spray foam could result in air gaps due to stud shrinkage.........retrofit is good.........what i have been told and seen on occasion.........
 
OP
L

LuckyRugger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Mid-Michigan
I have a shingled roof with a standard truss, and I'm going to hang my osb on the ceiling and then the contractor is going to go into my attic and spray the top side of my osb ceiling with a 1/2" then I'll add blown in on top of that to get an R of around 50. I'm not sure if it make's much sense to go much more than 2" of foam since I have 2-12x12 over head doors that have an R of about 15. My biggest concern is air infiltrating around the seal of my over head doors.
 

jvitez

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
2,429
Location
Big Sky Country, Canada
There is a difference between high and low density foam. High density also acts as a vapour barrier, so one less step to do or pay for. For a pole barn in a warm climate, spraying the underside of the roof makes sense. Depending on building orientation and amount of sun exposure, you might want to have equal R-value on the roof and wall if they all get sun.

Hot air rises. So in a cold climate ceiling insulation is more important. Nothing cheaper and more effective than blown in cellulose, but of course you need an attic space and a vapour barrier. Spray foam on the underside of a roof can also work in a cold climate. Depends if you want a finished ceiling vs rafter storage space.
 

cyamaha2007

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,001
Location
St.Charles MO
Ive seen a pole barn with spray foam and it was so tight you had to crack a door when you turned on the exhaust fan to avoid stressing the garage doors they pulled in a 1.5in or so with out the door cracked. Its sweet
 

dirttracker18

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,191
Location
Slate River, ON
Have to agree with most people here. I am no expert and my opinion is strickly based on my personal research. However, closed cell spray foam is the $#!t.

Everything I have read tells me that the R value system is flawed in that testing is done in controlled environments with no air movement and low humidity (read low moisture). Batts will allow air movement through them (hold one up to a fan and feel the air go through it). They are meant to control the difference in temperature between sides. Closed cell foam on the other hand controls not only temperature but air movement as well.
Cowboy, I am a fan of Holmes so I can see why your cutomers wanted spray foam.

This summer I am going to tackle my problomatic catherdral ceiling and metal roof with spray foam for not only a better insulating value and vapour barrier (closed cell is rated at an R value of 6 per inch in most applications which I think is under rated) but also to alleviate the issue with moisture due to the metal roof. When the air condenses under the metal the water drips onto the insulation and over a number of years makes it virtually useless. Batts are like a spnge, they never give up the water they take in. Damp batts have an R value of "R totally useless." :)

The plan is to carefully remove the metal roof (I plan to reinstal it after), remove the batts and have the entire roof spray foamed 6 inches deep. I will then put the metal roof back on and hopefully never have huge ice damns again and drop my heating bill significantly. I am expecting serious savings and a pay back of about 6 years on the cost of the spray foam. I am even considering having an entire wall done since I am goind to have the siding off that side for an unrelated project. This house was built with ballon framing (not sure what it is called in other places). The walls were built first and then the floor is built inside of it. A stupid design and I am not sure why anyone would use it. What this means is that the portion of the wall that goes below the floor has no vapour barrier unless someone was smart enough to put it up before the floor. Which in this case they were not. The means that my floors and lower part of the wall feel cold in the winter. No batt insulation can fix this. The only thing to do is spray foam the bottom part or use rigid insulation with some kind of sealant. However the spray foam will seal best. Eventually when I change the siding I will have all the bottom portions spray foamed. I did it from the inside in the bathroom when I renovated and it made a huge difference in that room.
 
Last edited:

walrus

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
11,681
Location
Maine
The plan is to carefully remove the metal roof (I plan to reinstal it after), remove the batts and have the entire roof spray foamed 6 inches deep. I will then put the metal roof back on and hopefully never have huge ice damns again and drop my heating bill significantly. I am expecting serious savings and a pay back of about 6 years on the cost of the spray foam.

Is there any way you can decouple the rafters from the roof. I put sheet foam down over my sheathing before I put my metal roof on. Some say you should strap it first but I didn't want the base drum affect when it rains. I have a standing seam roof so its a little more wind resistance than a screw down roof. Sounds like you have a good plan and you'll enjoy the difference in your house let alone the savings on your heat. After being in a well insulated home, the comfort level really makes a difference, think no drafts and what that means when your winter is 6 months long.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

StingRay

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
1,340
Location
Saskatoon,SK. Canada
Everything I have read tells me that the R value system is flawed in that testing is done in controlled environments with no air movement and low humidity (read low moisture). Batts will allow air movement through them (hold one up to a fan and feel the air go through it). They are meant to control the difference in temperature between sides. Closed cell foam on the other hand controls not only temperature but air movement as well.

You are refering to the convective loop that can exist inside of lower density or open celled forms of insulation. Cellulose at an equivelent R value in a wall for example is better than fiberglass as it isn't as agreeable to a convective loop forming because of it's higher density. The same applies in an attic with blown in versions as well. Fiberglass batts are a bit more resistant to a loop forming than is blown in fiberglass. In an attic cellulose is still a very good and very cost effective choice. Closed cell foam allows practically no air movement and therefore no convective loop. The down side on cellulose in an attic is weight and your cielings ability to support it.

In my garage I had the walls sprayed with 3" of faom and the attic is R54 cellulose.
 

clkimmel

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
91
Location
Suffolk, VA
Does anyone have any experience with the DIY spray foam insulation kits available on-line? I am thinking about it, but I'm skeptical about ordering this stuff and wishing I had just used traditional bats.

Is it easy to use?
Messy?
Do you get what you order? (i.e. you order enough for 600 sqft @ 1" , does it cover that?)
 

dirttracker18

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
3,191
Location
Slate River, ON
When I looked into it, it was no cheaper then paying someone to do the job for you.

And yes, it's messy, even for a pro (from what I have seen).
 

hilld

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
867
Location
Vancouver, WA & San Juan Island, WA
I did mine about a year ago and a year later I love it. I did not cover up my foam, where it is exposed to natural light, the green has morphed into yellow. It does not get much exposure, only when the door is open. See the barn rehab thread in my signature for more information, including the "installation".

Derek
 

Colonial Cobra

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
459
Location
Yorktown, VA
Does anyone have any experience with the DIY spray foam insulation kits available on-line? I am thinking about it, but I'm skeptical about ordering this stuff and wishing I had just used traditional bats.

Is it easy to use?
Messy?
Do you get what you order? (i.e. you order enough for 600 sqft @ 1" , does it cover that?)

I used the kits and was very pleased. Not too messy and I got the stated coverage. Shop around and call each place for pricing. We did a good bit better on price, and found someone locally that carried it.
 

clkimmel

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
91
Location
Suffolk, VA
I used the kits and was very pleased. Not too messy and I got the stated coverage. Shop around and call each place for pricing. We did a good bit better on price, and found someone locally that carried it.

Thanks, can you tell me where you got it? I'm just down in Suffolk.
 

Colonial Cobra

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
459
Location
Yorktown, VA
Thanks, can you tell me where you got it? I'm just down in Suffolk.

I'll try to track down the receipt. It's been a few years.
I called Handi-foam and got the local dealers numbers.
Also call Tiger Foam, They didnt have any dealers locally at the time, but may now.
Check with "Foam it Green" also.

Brad
 

Colonial Cobra

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
459
Location
Yorktown, VA
The density of FOMO FOAM is 1.75 lbs. per cubic foot.

The size of the kit, i.e. II-105, II-605, II-205, is indicative of the board foot coverage or yield for that kit. Thus, a II-605 kit will cover 605 square feet at 1" thick. A board foot as it relates to this product is a square foot one inch thick. The kit size is the yield of the kit expanded.
 

digdug18

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
311
Location
Danville, PA
I just bought a 600 board foot tank of fast rise tiger foam. I'll let you guys know how well it works, I'm told its easier to use then the handi foam, which I've used before.
 

JDC137

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1
would 1' of closed cell foam sprayed on a basement ceiling be a good way sturdy up the floor? I am thinking about 4' of open cell for noise but someone told me to do 1' of closed first to tighten up and strength up the floor first, then use the open cell for sound dampening.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom