Spray foam options

[gogolf0401]

Wondering what you guys went with for your spray foam.

I could hire it done, but the price seems outrageous, so I've been looking at my other options.

Menards sells FROTH-PAK foam sealant by Dow.
Home Depot sells Touch n' Foam.
Lowes sells both FROTH-PAK and Touch n' Foam.

Has anyone used these products instead of hiring it done? What were your experiences?

 

[PugetDude]

Your answer can be found in "The thread of WTF"

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=257585&page=366

 

[purplezr2]

Have you done the math per Sq ft. When I did the math is was about even between the two. Remember that those DIY kits sqft claims are ideal condition with 1" of coverage. Also there is a bit of a learning curve. I would save almost nothing to do it myself plus all the mess and learning curve.

620 Froth-Pak covers 620Sqft at 1" thick.

I had 666 sqft done 2 inches thick at a cost of 1400. To do it with a Froth-Pak which is on sale it would cost 1346+tax(7%) to do the same. At that cost I would have enough material to cover 680 sqft at 2" thick. This would be 2 Froth-Pak 620 part A and B, one gun and one Froth-Pak 120 with gun.

No savings and I would have to be really good out of the gate with it.

Also I measure a few places and the 2" coverage was close to 2.25-2.5"


How many sqft are you doing and how thick.

Have you consider just a 1-2" layer of spray foam to seal and traditional insulation for the rest?

 

[gogolf0401]

1 inch is what I am planning and then add fiberglass roll.

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[Brad J.]

Around here it's a dollar a sq. ft.

They are basically doing the labor for free if you add up the froth packs.

It's around .50 a sq ft for the material in 55 gallon drums. They are roughly making .50 cents a sq. ft. for application.

The non heated versions in 5 gallons buckets after the purchase of a 10k machine is .78 a sq. ft. The larger heated 55 gallon machines are a lot more money.

A buddy and I have been pondering the purchase of a foam machine to do our projects and then sell it. But... you have to spray a lot of foam and your time has to be worthless for it to come out.

 

[joe_padavano]

I used Touch n' Foam. Bought it on line. I needed four large kits to spray my entire 28x32 metal building. Be sure to wear a respirator, tyvek suit, and hat. You do NOT want to get this stuff in the hair on your arms. Do NOT ask me how I know this...

 

[Bib Overalls]

I had the ceiling of my shop professionally sprayed with closed cell. It was $1 per square foot for 1" coverage. I specified 2" got at least 3" coverage in most areas. The guys that did the job were a little new to the work and made a bit of a mess but overall, I am happy with the thermal performance. After watching my job go down I am happy I went pro. The material is expensive and you are going to waist some climbing up the knowledge curve.

Shop Remodel 67 by Formerly JimboT, on Flickr

Shop Remodel 68 by Formerly JimboT, on Flickr

Shop Remodel 69 by Formerly JimboT, on Flickr

Pro job or do-it-yourself, make sure you are protected and everything you do not want sprayed is masked.

 

[theoldwizard1]

1 inch is what I am planning and then add fiberglass roll.

Smart ! Very smart !!

 

[Radix2]

The recommendation to doing a flash and batt is to put down enough foam so the the interior surface stays warm enough not to condense water from the air. That's a lot of inches in Mn.

I'm not seeing the reason do this at all with a thinner layer - trying to protect the interior surface of the metal? The vapor barrier needs to be on the warm side so that it stays dry and the warm wet air is kept away from the cold surfaces. Big gaps, and air leaks at the roof skin can be spot sealed, doesn't seem any viable reason to spend for a complete coat unless the idea is some sort of undercoating - but the vapor should be able to get out from there - not be trapped inside the regular insulation.

Down south an inch might be enough to keep the interior surface warm, but not up north.

 

[Brad J.]

When I had my basement foamed they told me 2" minimun to a achieve a vapor barrier without the use of plastic sheeting.

 

[gogolf0401]

The recommendation to doing a flash and batt is to put down enough foam so the the interior surface stays warm enough not to condense water from the air. That's a lot of inches in Mn.

I'm not seeing the reason do this at all with a thinner layer - trying to protect the interior surface of the metal? The vapor barrier needs to be on the warm side so that it stays dry and the warm wet air is kept away from the cold surfaces. Big gaps, and air leaks at the roof skin can be spot sealed, doesn't seem any viable reason to spend for a complete coat unless the idea is some sort of undercoating - but the vapor should be able to get out from there - not be trapped inside the regular insulation.

Down south an inch might be enough to keep the interior surface warm, but not up north.

I have house wrap on the outside, next was going to be 1" spray foam to seal it up good to reduce air leaks since this is a pole building. After that I was going to install fiberglass roll insulation against the spray foam followed by a layer of poly before my interior sheeting goes up. Based on your comment maybe this 1" spray foam is worthless?

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[jack stand]

1 inch is what I am planning and then add fiberglass roll.

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I've heard that you want enough foam to have the "dew point" somewhere in the foam layer, otherwise you'll have wet f/g insulation. 2" is the recomendation here in Maine's climate for the minimum. Check into it.
You can get similar results installing ridgid foam & carefully foaming all the joints. I did this with 3" of poly iso. used (cheap) foam from a commercial roof take off.

edit; post #9 put it much better than I.
Your house wrap will let water vapor pass through but block the wind (air leakage) and is not a moisture barrier, that would be your 1" of spray foam. This is where your walls will condensate (on the inside of the foam) and wet your f/g insulation.

 

[gogolf0401]

Or maybe just forget the spray foam and go with just fiberglass?

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[gogolf0401]

Or at least foam the areas where fiberglass insulation won't reach like in the corners and such?

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[kwoody51]

Where in west central MN are you? I had spray foam done for my new home construction and the cost was maybe 30% more than blown in fiberglass.

I live in the cities but pretty sure my guy was located west of the cities.

Here who did my house http://mandmfoam.com

Called up 6 other guys and he was the least expensive.

 

[Brad J.]

Foam is worth every penny to me.

When I built my shop 10 years ago I put a paper thin radiant barrier on the outside of the building under the steel. Then on the inside I put r-19 batts against the radiant barrier. The first year before I had the inside finished but the shop was heated I could reach through the r19 and scrap frost from the radiant barrier and the fiberglass was touching the frost. I had to pull the steel back off and put rolled foil/foam/foil under the steel. This stopped the frost transfer and your tyvek would frost just like my original radiant barrier.

Foam would have stopped this before it happened. I've regretted not foaming the shop originally. Wasn't popular yet and I didn't know anything about it.

 

[Radix2]

Foam is worth every penny to me.

When I built my shop 10 years ago I put a paper thin radiant barrier on the outside of the building under the steel. Then on the inside I put r-19 batts against the radiant barrier. The first year before I had the inside finished but the shop was heated I could reach through the r19 and scrap frost from the radiant barrier and the fiberglass was touching the frost. I had to pull the steel back off and put rolled foil/foam/foil under the steel. This stopped the frost transfer and your tyvek would frost just like my original radiant barrier.

Foam would have stopped this before it happened. I've regretted not foaming the shop originally. Wasn't popular yet and I didn't know anything about it.

Yep, what you are describing is what is discussed above - the thickness of the foam (since it is a vapor barrier) is important - super thin or missing you get frost, too thin and you get water condensing, thick enough - you are above the dew point and it stays dry.

If you would have had an effective vapor barrier under the fiberglass, the moist air would not have made it to the metal to condense and freeze into frost - where are you by the way?

Foam is indeed great, but it needs to be installed as a system based on the climate.

gogolf - I would either up the foam to the needed thickness for Mn, or just use it as a spot filler as you suggest and then fiberglass and then a vapor barrier to keep the moisture out of it. How critical it all is depends on how much you will be heating and how much moisture you will have in there. A full occupied house with cooking, showers, ventless heaters, etc. generates a lot of warm moist air. A workshop might not generate much to start with.

 

[gogolf0401]

Ya thinking about going to 2.5" foam and be done. Air transfer with 2.5" foam is 92% restricted. 5.5" fiberglass is only 20% restricted. No-brainer. So even though the r value of 2.5" foam is a little less than the fiberglass it should do a better job.

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[Radix2]

Ya thinking about going to 2.5" foam and be done. Air transfer with 2.5" foam is 92% restricted. 5.5" fiberglass is only 20% restricted. No-brainer. So even though the r value of 2.5" foam is a little less than the fiberglass it should do a better job.

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yep, once the guy is there, the masking is done...etc. Hard to then think about doing the fiberglass job, supports, lift,....