Spray foam or fire stop wire holes?

[signcrafter]

When you drill a hole from the 1st floor down to basement or 1st floor up into attic do run a wire(or plumbing pipe for that matter) do you put some spray foam in that hole or firestop foam? Is there a code that says this? Also what about where the wire goes into the plastic electrical boxes? Is there a code that says you have to do anything there or is it good practice to hit it with a dab of great stuff? Any other areas where you need to do anything for electrical(or plumbing)?

 

[850xpeps]

Acoustical sealant. The black tar is what I use. Stays flexible but seals the penetration. You can foam the remainder of the hole.

Into the basement doesn’t need anything.

 

[cybrdyke]

There are code issues. You should check with your local AHJ to find out what they want to see in those holes. In our area, you have to use fireblock foam, not the generic expanding foam or any other goop that's not made for this application.
CD

 

[850xpeps]

There are code issues. You should check with your local AHJ to find out what they want to see in those holes. In our area, you have to use fireblock foam, not the generic expanding foam or any other goop that's not made for this application.
CD

As far as I’m aware fire stop is not required by code inside a residence. Only when an attached garage or multi family unit is involved.

 

[cybrdyke]

As far as I’m aware fire stop is not required by code inside a residence. Only when an attached garage or multi family unit is involved.

Fireblock isn't firestop.
As I said, it depends on AHJ. If the OP is working under the rules of IBC or IRC then he may need to use something to be in compliance.
CD

 

[TRWham]

Most AHJs we work with accept fire block foam (the orange Great Stuff readily available), but one requires fire caulk (the red 3M stuff also readily available).

 

[larry4406]

Old school we would manually fill hole with rock wool and use a stick to pack it solid. Today we use the orange spray foam like TRWham said.

Edit 11/13/19 - Our insulator uses Tytan Fire Block Foam which is orange.
https://tytan.com/shop2/tytan-fire-block-24-oz.-gun-clone.html

 

[MoonRise]

Yes, even in residential construction or renovation nowadays you have to use the fireblock type caulk.

Inspector insisted on some remodel/addition work a while ago, even though the entire rest of the house had none. All the 'new' work penetrations had to have the 'rated' fireblock caulk.

 

[Jim greengo]

Around here anyway they're more concerned about filling holes to stop air infiltration rather than stopping fires.

 

[cybrdyke]

Around here anyway they're more concerned about filling holes to stop air infiltration rather than stopping fires.

That's what fireblock does. Keeps air away from fires.
CD

 

[Jim greengo]

That's what fireblock does. Keeps air away from fires.
CD

No they're concerned about energy usage,not stopping fires.
You can drill 2" holes through every stud in a wall if you want as long as it doesnt affect energy efficiency standards by letting in non conditioned air .
I've been told the same story by many inspectors on many jobs when I asked them about fire caulking holes in walls.

 

[machsnell]

I tried to burn the orange great stuff and it burns just as quickly as the regular great stuff. Just dyed orange and a couple bucks a can added.



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[cybrdyke]

No they're concerned about energy usage,not stopping fires.
You can drill 2" holes through every stud in a wall if you want as long as it doesnt affect energy efficiency standards by letting in non conditioned air .
I've been told the same story by many inspectors on many jobs when I asked them about fire caulking holes in walls.

Yes, I realize this. My point was that fireblock uses the same theory. Keeping air from moving around.
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

I tried to burn the orange great stuff and it burns just as quickly as the regular great stuff. Just dyed orange and a couple bucks a can added.



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It shouldn't be much different. It's not designed with any firestopping materials.

 

[driftpin]

We had an in-service for the Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale FL area) county fire inspectors where a NFPA video was shown, where a test was done on wall penetrations. It was a sobering video, as it showed rapid expansion into the other side, of fire gases, which is usually what can kill you, not direct exposure to fire. The penetration was small, I don't recall the exact size, but I believe it was 1/8". The opposite room from the fire source became charged with carbon monoxide moving through the wall penetration, in a matter of minutes, making the room an asphyxiation chamber.

The AHJ is always whom you have to-satisfy. However, if you're protecting your loved ones, above-code is that-much-more protection. You may-not need to do it, but if the cost is minimal, why-not do it?

When I was a youngster, a family down the block had a late-evening house fire, single-family residences in a fairly-new construction area. The two boys were my age and 2 years-older, the older kid was asphyxiated and died. Our home was 5 or 6 years-old by then, and I don't recall the fire's origin, but it was the first time I had someone I knew who died. I don't think it had any cause for me to enter a career as a firefighter/paramedic and fire service instructor and fire inspector, but it's something I remember from an early age.

 

[TRWham]

IRC2012 (which we are under at this time) calls it out in the section called "Fireblocking," so they must have some expectation that's what it does. Many materials (e.g. lumber, plywood, particle board, etc.) specified in the IRC for fireblocking and draftstopping are combustible. They explicitly state the material used for pipe, cable and duct penetrations is NOT required to meet ASTM E 136. The orange Great Stuff meets whatever testing is required and is accepted by most AHJs in my experience. You are not creating a fireproof structure. The point is to SLOW the spread of fire and allow egress.

 

[yeldogt]

We had an in-service for the Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale FL area) county fire inspectors where a NFPA video was shown, where a test was done on wall penetrations. It was a sobering video, as it showed rapid expansion into the other side, of fire gases, which is usually what can kill you, not direct exposure to fire. The penetration was small, I don't recall the exact size, but I believe it was 1/8". The opposite room from the fire source became charged with carbon monoxide moving through the wall penetration, in a matter of minutes, making the room an asphyxiation chamber.

The AHJ is always whom you have to-satisfy. However, if you're protecting your loved ones, above-code is that-much-more protection. You may-not need to do it, but if the cost is minimal, why-not do it?

When I was a youngster, a family down the block had a late-evening house fire, single-family residences in a fairly-new construction area. The two boys were my age and 2 years-older, the older kid was asphyxiated and died. Our home was 5 or 6 years-old by then, and I don't recall the fire's origin, but it was the first time I had someone I knew who died. I don't think it had any cause for me to enter a career as a firefighter/paramedic and fire service instructor and fire inspector, but it's something I remember from an early age.

It's the smoke that kills .. and modern houses with typical construction ... leak like crazy. Another factor is the heat flow and how it pushes and pulls through a building ...

That's why I like spray foam w/ traditional construction -- it works.

 

[Terry D]

Around here, any holes where wires are drilled through a top or bottom plate of a wall, needs to be fire caulked. And it has to be the red stuff. They make a yellow colored fire caulk, which is cheaper, but the inspectors wont accept it. Don't really know why. On plumbing stacks, they flash around it with sheet metal, but on supply lines, they use the caulk. They also make a fire retardant insulation for larger voids in the framing.

 

[Innovate1]

What can be done for conduit from basement to attic? That is very useful for adding things - both low voltage and line voltage so in the past I have put in one for each near the panel of about 1.5 - 2". But filling the end of the conduit with goop that is hard to take out kind of defeats the purpose. Is the clay like putty they make for electrical openings generally accepted for fire stopping? What do people usually use for this? Around the outside of the conduit the sealing is permanent so no issue with rework.

 

[grounded-b]

Use the red firestop putty. It comes in a 2" diameter tube. You pull out a chunk, and knead it, to soften it. Stuff it in the pipe like duct-seal. It never really hardens.

Steve

 

[johnnyradiant]

It's the smoke that kills .. and modern houses with typical construction ... leak like crazy. Another factor is the heat flow and how it pushes and pulls through a building ...

That's why I like spray foam w/ traditional construction -- it works.

And new houses go through a pressure testing to reduce those crazy leaks. Currently the priority is higher for efficiency but it is also for fire spread. If the real priority was for fire they would likely be limiting some of the materials used/placed in homes for better safer materials, instead of focusing on air leaks.

 

[larry4406]

What can be done for conduit from basement to attic? That is very useful for adding things - both low voltage and line voltage so in the past I have put in one for each near the panel of about 1.5 - 2". But filling the end of the conduit with goop that is hard to take out kind of defeats the purpose. Is the clay like putty they make for electrical openings generally accepted for fire stopping? What do people usually use for this? Around the outside of the conduit the sealing is permanent so no issue with rework.

Our tech wire guys run these conduits as well in new homes - they call them future proofs. One of them uses the flexible type conduit, puts an open ziplock bag into the conduit open end with the bag opening to the outside, then sprays fire block foam inside the bag. Another uses hard conduit and slips a plumbers cap on the ends. All I can say is my inspectors seem to be happy with these methods.