sprayfoam vs fiberglass insulation

[12valve]

I'm planning to build a large shop for myself next year. I'm on the fence about insulation. Spray foam vs. rolled fiberglass. A quote I got was about double for the spray foam. Is it that much better? I plan to erect the bulding myself. I'd love to not fight the rolls of insulation while screwing down the panels. But my building is going to be big and the price difference is alot. Thought about trying to find a used spray foam machine. I could save the labor and put it towards the machine, then maybe make some side cash on other jobs. I also know I would paint the spray foam after it's up. Right now leaning towards the rolled insulation. Looking for prros and cons

 

[ixlr8]

Tell us more about building construction and what u plan on doing with it. What are your heating plans?
I am putting up a steel building, with all the seams on the sheet metal... fiberglass insulation will not be very effective... too many places for air to blow in. My plan is to put up 1"-2" of foam to seal up the cracks and keep the cold air out.. then put up fiberglass to get to the insulation values I want.

 

[StingRay]

Only double! For how much foam? When I had my shop foamed to the maximum value I had quotes as high as 5 times. I think I paid about triple and felt like I was a thief. After the fact the job wasn't well done and I don't think I even really got what I paid for. I spent over 50 hours shaving the foam back to the studs. I have the poduct but it was grossly over applied and was a heluva lot of work to fix on my part. Fiber glass allows air to move inside the cavity and like a conveyer belt it can carry heat away through convection. Foam will not allow convection in the insulation layer. It also acts as it's own vapor retarder and is not going to be affected by insects or moisture. It seals the building envelope and makes it much more air tight too. It also makes for a very quiet and extremely strong building. A foamed building is far stronger in shear and vertical compression than one that isn't foamed.

 

[Jack90210]

I had my garage/studio foamed when I had it built last year, and I'm happy with it. Pretty hard to do it yourself "on the cheap." I agree with StingRay, sealing a building against air loss makes a much bigger difference than just insulating.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

It really is that much better if done right. You might not notice in the winter with the heat on, but you notice it in the summer.

 

[PoPo]

foaming is worth every penny spent. A good buddy runs a foaming rig for his company and he swears its the best insulation on the market. He tells me all the highs and stuff about it and the only real low is the fact that at the end of the day, well he is covered with spray

If it gets cold where you and I mean COLD then definately get foam. Nothing seals like foam. It costs more up front but your monthly heat bill will be lower.

 

[galwaytt]

...why not a rigid XPS, like DOW LB (Styrofoam) ?

I'm not a fan of rolls: eventually, imho, it'll sag.

 

[Colonial Cobra]

I used kits like these from Tiger Foam

http://www.tigerfoam.com/

I wouldn't use anything but spray in foam. We had a few rooms with walls that were cold and drafty. We stripped the sheeting from the house replaced the windows and used spray foam. It's unbelievable how much better that area is. The three rooms that share those walls are now the warmest parts of the house in the winter. and very little outside noise can be heard.

I also helped a friend install 1" of spray foam and then backed it up with r-19 fiberglass. The foam seals the cavities so that the fiberglass can work to it's full value. And the foam is R-7 per inch of thickness.

 

[armstrr]

if you you had plans on framing the walls....then a dense packed cellulose would work extremely well and it would probably be less than fiberglass. it sounds like you are only talking about the ceiling deck (i assume this is a cathedral...clearspan?) if so, then spray foam will be hard to beat. if you have trusses and have a shething on the interior, then 14-18" of blown in cellulose will give you r60+ and it has many of the air sealing properties of foam when dense packed in walls or blown in an attic...and again...it is cheap and easy to do yourself.

 

[bigdav160]

Is it that much better?

It really depends on climate, location and what type of climate control.

 

[speed bump]

One thing you can do is have all the seams foamed and then use fiberglass.

Personally I would go for the foam if I had a steel building or planned on building in a really nasty climate or where the cost to heat was high. If your going with stick built generally R-19 in the walls and whatever you can put in the ceiling with sheet rock work pretty well even when its -20°F outside.

 

[krooser]

Foam will give you a total insulating barrier between the cold wall and the inside wall... batt insulation will never do that. I'll be foaming the roof in my shop above my lift... it's the last uninsulated part of my shop and foam will completely seal out the cold.

 

[M. MYERS]

Would not go with anything else if possible. I have a 40' x 60' and durning the summer I turn on a small fan and I am ok.
This winter I just turn on a 220 heater to knock the chill out for a while then turn it off.
I had a friend get me some coating and sprayed it for a flame retardant.
More photos on photobucket search for memco123 then menue on left. See link below. When I walk on the roof now it feels like I am walking on something solid. Be sure to apply closed cell foam on roof.

melvin

 

[Jack90210]

Foam will give you a total insulating barrier between the cold wall and the inside wall... batt insulation will never do that.

Only if you take steps to prevent thermal bridging, like using Dow Styrofoam sheets over the OSB/sheathing.

 

[Ezzie]

If using sprayed urethane, which is a closed cell foam, water will not penetrate it. Foundation crack repair people use urethane foam to seal foundation cracks.

 

[walrus]

Then how would you know when there was a leak?

You may not. If its big enough the water will come out somewhere. I guess you'd have to pay close attention to your roof

 

[wickerdave]

As a former insulation contractor I could tell you that foam is by far the best. but it's not. It's far better than rolled or sheet. The noise reduction factor is truley amazing. However. If you use a dense pack cellulose (dry) with the facing made from used tire cord, you will achieve the same benefits as the foam (seal of air infiltration) at 1/3 the cost and you can do it yourself with a rented blower and air staple gun. One thing to remember with foam, it is now highly competative in bidding to a potential customer and the only way for a foam contractor to increse his profit margin and still get the bid is to short the customer on the foam (widely done) never let the foamed wall be covered untill YOU have inspected every sq. ft. of it.

 

[nonhog]

Google can be helpful................http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=dense+pack+cellulose&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

 

[12valve]

Thanks for the replies. I have had a hard time posting replies. I plan on putting up a 60x120 x 18 steel building near pueblo colorado. Since the building is decent sized I need to think about all the square footage to cover. The foam would be the best it sounds like, but the cost is really high for that big of a building. I will be working on cars, trucks, trailers tractors, metal fabricating and light machining. My place is 40 acres so I don't worry about outside noise. I have also been looking at radiant rolled insulation. It is reasonable cost. I like the white backing of the fiberglass. The radiant looks like foil, and the spray foam would need to be painted. Erecting the building would be so much easier without wrestling the insulation while screwing down the panels. I will line the bottom 8 foot of the interior wall to keep sparks away from the insulation. Any other opinions or experience to share guys?

 

[krooser]

The foam will stop any existing leaks... roof leaks on steel roofs are fairly rare unless they have been damaged by debris, trees, etc.

 

[KINGY2]

I just built a new house with a 36x18 garage and i did the entire house
and garage with foam .......i figure i am cutting my heating in half .
i figure i will recoup my extra cost in about 5 yrs after that it is money in the pocket !
and ya it is about 2.5 more but well worth it .

 

[krooser]

Whats Google?

You're kidding, right?

 

[Stuart in MN]

I have also been looking at radiant rolled insulation. It is reasonable cost.

If you're talking about that thin stuff that looks like bubble wrap with a foil backing on it, do some more research...there are some companies out there making some outrageous claims for the R value of this stuff.

 

[StingRay]

I agree. Actual R value is minute. In radiant transmission against the sun the foil backing on it can have some merit but useful R value NO. The bubble pack part of it R value is very small. I'm not saying it's without it's uses either. I'd consider using it for a thermal break in places, in an attic against the sun ( Plain aluminum foil is problaby as effective) or on a problem window for a temporary solutiuon against extreme cold, etc.

If you're talking about that thin stuff that looks like bubble wrap with a foil backing on it, do some more research...there are some companies out there making some outrageous claims for the R value of this stuff.

 

[ProGun3400]

You're kidding, right?

Was thinking the same thing myself...

Interesting thread....................

 

[12valve]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys