Spreading the Bonney affliction!

[LesserSon]

Something to consider: I think at some point around the brown era, Bonney changed from advertising the external dimensions of boxes to the internal dimensions, without any actual alteration of the boxes - a shift from displacement to capacity.
I don’t know any reason to doubt Lugz’s assertion that “tan” brown is wartime. Add to that the few red crinkle boxes that have turned up with the wartime logo (“transitional”) and then the catalog-confirmed post-war red with plaid (“checkerboard”) logos, and I’d rather believe Bonney advertised dimensions for boxes from a single manufacturer’s specs, while actually sourcing from multiple suppliers, as a cause of dimensional variance.
I have a “transitional” carry box I have not found in any catalog thus far, so there are some anomalies out there. And, as someone who occasionally binges MCU might suppose, there is also the possibility that your stack, so suspiciously pristine, is actually from a parallel universe where Bonney never changed its logo, or color scheme, and perhaps continues to sell tools at this very moment!

 

[alinc100]

LS all of that could very well be true. It could be a Star Trek or a Seinfeld episode for all we know. If you find that alternate universe,please let me know I'll drop the $275 on the AA2 set of tool that belong in this box,in a heartbeat. I would even risk whiplash pulling out my wallet at a high rate of speed. I'm guessing the variance in dimensions has more to do with construction/caster placement along with the 1951 text of the CC10 replacing the CC cabinet,although the CC10 cabinet appears in the 1950 catalog. I'd really like to see catalogs from '48 & '49. It all goes back to the same thing as Craftsman ,labels/logos/stamps blend and overlap as supply ran out,causing us grief 80-100 years later as collectors, while the mfgs, likely never gave a thought to collecting, nor had any idea we could spend more time talking about tools and history than actually using the tools.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Add to that the few red crinkle boxes that have turned up with the wartime logo (“transitional”)

Brown boxes with new logos, conversely, would make me far less comfortable thinking of every brown box with an old logo as wartime or leaning that way.

I'd really like to see catalogs from '48 & '49.

AA has a C-1 dated to "1949?" (with a question mark, ostensibly because it's not dated, the 1947 catalog is also C-1, and their next Bonney cat in chronological order is the 1950 C-3), with a note that reads, "Later printing. Supplement with "streamlined" style open and combination wrenches." I've put it on my list of catalogs we suddenly seem to have a very recent tenuous opening to ask the proprietor to make available to IA/ITCL.

 

[alinc100]

Brown boxes with new logos, conversely, would make me far less comfortable thinking of every brown box with an old logo as wartime or leaning that way.

AA has a C-1 dated to "1949?" (with a question mark, ostensibly because it's not dated, the 1947 catalog is also C-1, and their next Bonney cat in chronological order is the 1950 C-3), with a note that reads, "Later printing. Supplement with "streamlined" style open and combination wrenches." I've put it on my list of catalogs we suddenly seem to have a very recent tenuous opening to ask the proprietor to make available to IA/ITCITCL

I referenced this catalog labeled C-2 1950 https://archive.org/details/bonney-tools-catalog-c-2

 

[JjKk40]

That awesome cabet (the jealousy is real) should be around '39-'47 as I've skowered the catalogs before and thats what I've deducted. I have brown boxes with chrome plated tools and brown boxes with wartime tools. Great score on the box tho! I have the earlier black version of the top AA2 probably around '36-'37ish.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I referenced this catalog labeled C-2 1950

Yes, I'm aware of it, Andy. I use IA/ITCL extensively. I'm not sure why you're reminding me what you used in reply to my post, though. I was describing AA's library. Their sequence in this timeframe goes C-1 (1947), another C-1 ("1949?"), and C-3 (1950). They don't appear to have the C-2, or possibly mislabeled the 1950 cat they have as C-3. Either way, to re-emphasize the significance of me referring to this sequence in AA's heretofore inaccessible library, I am pointing out that oddball C-1 printing he has, because it's a 'tweener (later than first C-1, and perhaps earlier than our C-2) that may very well help, at least in terms of another data point for the specs. If we can get ahold of it for IA/ITCL. Eventually.

...should be around '39-'47 as I've skowered the catalogs before and thats what I've deducted.

I had told him '39-'46 on the GS thread and then again here upthread, primarily because, as I said, I don't have full confidence in the internals of the C-1 (1947) being updated, but we're all in the same ballpark, including LS. I don't have any problem stretching my definition of 'wartime' (the bulk of the years when the brown finish and old logo coincided lockstep) into '47 if that turns out to be the case, but I think the new logo and red scheme on the cover points strongly to them moving on, albeit, slapping leftover decals on some red boxes. Andy is dating his cabinet a little later due to the dimensional specs, which match the specs in later catalogs, and I just don't see it likely they were still making brown boxes and putting old logos on them in 1948 and 1949. LS thinks that spec difference could be a switch in the way they were measured or expressed. It wouldn't be the first time we've seen weird differences between measured dimensions and specified dimensions, throughout the 30 and 40's, so I tend to ignore them, deferring to finish and logo. But it's an interesting quandry.

 

[alinc100]

I'm hung up on the construction details between 47 (?) & later when the casters went from outboard to inboard,which the later illustrations show. BUT we know from Craftsman logos,illustrations can confuse further than clarifying.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm hung up on the construction details between 47 (?) & later when the casters went from outboard to inboard,which the later illustrations show.

Keep in mind that we're jumping from 1941 (as far as I know!) to 1947. It's too bad that we don't have catalog No. 43 (from 1943) or that catalog No. 46J (which was found with a PL dated April 1946) does not feature a photo of the rollcab. As far as I know, we don't know when those casters went from outboard to inboard. EDIT: If that was too vague, what I am saying is you could be hung up for nothing. They may have moved the casters inboard any time between 1942 and 1946.

 

[alinc100]

If that was too vague, what I am saying is you could be hung up for nothing. They may have moved the casters inboard any time between 1942 and 1946.

But the casters appear outboard in the 1947 catalog. Also on the same page the red checkered theme is displayed along with the older logo. I've had a busy day at work, and it might be time for liquid refreshments.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

But the casters appear outboard in the 1947 catalog.

Doh! Apparently I started drinking too early! HAHA. Okay, scratch that thought.

Also on the same page the red checkered theme is displayed along with the older logo.

They re-used the old illustrations, Andy, rendered from the same photograph. That doesn't mean they made the old boxes and decals, though!

 

[alinc100]

Doh! Apparently I started drinking too early! HAHA. Okay, scratch that thought.

They re-used the old illustrations, Andy, rendered from the same photograph. That doesn't mean they made the old boxes and decals, though!

Now I know you are full of it....they didn't have Photoshop back then...LOL.....

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...they didn't have Photoshop back then...

Snerk. All kidding aside, whatever their publications department or hired service DID use to manipulate "copy" in those print media days, it must have been a heckuva lot cheaper than gathering and arranging tools in pouches, cases, boxes, and rollcabs for new photographs and "copy", because all the mfgrs did it! Especially in that immediate postwar timeframe.

 

[LesserSon]

…we could spend more time talking about tools and history than actually using the tools.

Yes we could!
Funny, how you don’t see a lot of puzzled looks about car, gun, knife, coin, book, stamp, doll collectors failing to put those things to their intended uses.

 

[MisterEd]

Argh!

 

[four.cycle]

^ B in a triangle is Billings, isn't it?

now that I look at that unit again, I'm wondering "Why did Billings and Wakefield both make a bent 1/2" open-end wrench?" :

 

[d42jeep]

P.W.A.-148

PWA-148 Wrench, carburetor center nut , (stamped offset)
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

steeper angle on the curve than the wakefield.

 

[JjKk40]

Some online buys......

Very stoked I came across these 4 wartime deep sockets!





Then this 1/2" drive cadmium plated Bonney contract socket



Then these two 8 point 1/2" drive sockets. These match my 1st ever Bonney (B-Shield) tools with a slight difference in socket design. My original set the sockets are smooth with no lines on the outside. Years later I've since picked up sets with both B-Shield designs, smooth and with 2 lines. But these are my only 8 point B-Shield sockets in 1/2" drive.

 

[Username already in use]

@JjKk40 those wartime deep sockets are slick.

 

[JjKk40]

@JjKk40 those wartime deep sockets are slick.

Thanks!!! I couldn't hit "BIN" online fast enough when I came across them! Lol!

 

[MisterEd]

We've accumulated some Pratt & Whitney Tools . . . some how . . sigh. Now what?!
Thanks to Rusty post on PAPAWS (https://papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=994.0)
Bonney on the left, Plomb right, Unnamed on right.

BONNEY
PWA-1392 Socket, Pushrod(Rocker arm) depressor, R985
PWA-1392 Socket, Pushrod(Rocker arm) depressor, R985
PWA-1399 Wrench(Spanner?)(Lug) 4"L, 3/8Dr, 2+13/32, Cyl Intake Wrench
PWA-1437 Wrench,Crowsfoot,Open Jaw 9/16", 3/8Dr
PWA-1437 Wrench,Crowsfoot,Closed Jaw 9/16", 3/8Dr
PWA-1683 Socket 3/4, 3/8Dr, Deep flare nut
PWA-1683 Socket 3/4, 3/8Dr, Deep flare nut
PWA-1683 Socket 3/4, 3/8Dr, Deep flare nut
PWA-2210 Wrench, oil sump,R1830,R2000,R2800

PLOMB
PWA-2254 Socket,Plug, 7/8", deep, 3/8Dr
PWA-1405 Socket flex/swivel joint, 3/8Dr

Not Marked
PWA-1265 Socket,Face spanner, 3/8Dr,1/2Sq 3/8 deep
PWA-1424 Socket, Crowsfoot,covernut (Pushrod tube Gland nut), R2000,R2800
PWA-1657 Wrench, Crowsfoot,Pushrod Cover Nut

 

[Shelbylex]

MisterEd, now is the time to get the aircraft to use them on!!!

 

[Username already in use]

@MisterEd thats a nice accumulation of P&W tools.
Something to be proud of. Honestly, could probably use its own thread. I have maybe a handful of P&W tools to share.
Kudos.

 

[MisterEd]

a nice accumulation

Accumulation, indeed! And thanks for the positive observation.

It’s impossible for us to resist the draw of history attached to “rusty tools”. We do our bit to maintain a thread with the past while building up stock for when someone has an estate sale of our stuff.

 

[MisterEd]

time to get the aircraft to use them on!!!

Perhaps. Or continue to cover horizontal surfaces with the accumulation.

 

[MisterEd]

An adjustment was made to one of the 1437s.

 

[MisterEd]

And one more . . . PWA-1396 Extension

 

[Raineman]

From the classifieds right here. Can’t believe none of you jumped on it, but glad you left it for me.

 

[Mikeske]

From the classifieds right here. Can’t believe none of you jumped on it, but glad you left it for me.

Nice assortment

 

[MisterEd]

Hence, 1031 Special ("S")

This one bears a little resemblance to yours: Bonney NAF 38018-16 1031S DOE JW

 

[MisterEd]

And similar but different: NAF 38018-4 DOE

 

[MisterEd]

And one more different: NAF 39432 1242 Single CR

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This one bears a little resemblance to yours: Bonney NAF 38018-16 1031S DOE JW

And one more different: NAF 39432 1242 Single CR

These are interesting. The "CR" code (March 1940) on the water pump wrench would fit the prewar scheme we thought we had going for the NAF 31xxxx, 38xxxx, and 39xxxx series tools, as discussed on this thread dedicated to that topic linked here. The "JW" code not so much. That is not a 1931 era branding on the major jaw, which makes it 1945, either very late for a CV steel wrench being made or perhaps early after restrictions lifted.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found an interesting Circle-CV water pump wrench just this morning at the flea. Obviously Bonney-made, but not Bonney-branded, it has a strange part number on the shank ("J852"). I have yet to search on that in hopes of identifying the customer. No milled opening size marking, either. (It measures 1-1/4".) It's also very crudely finished. You can see the marks left by the machine in the jaws. Probably February 1930.

I've only ever found one other in the wild, a June 1928 ("FT"), and it was clearly branded and model numbered for Bonney sale, and marked with a size (1-7/16"). You can see them both together in Pics 3, 4, & 5.

I'm not trying to collect these, and other than the fact that they're kind of neat as a reminder of what mechanics used to pack and re-pack (and re-pack) water pump gland nuts before the advent of water pump pliers, and, in turn, a reminder of what water pump pliers were used for before that use was forever coloquially channelocked into oblivion, I have no real affinity for them.

(As an aside, we've never cracked the dots-based die code.)

 

[MisterEd]

Appreciate your efforts, @Private Lugnutz, and the efforts of numerous other regulars.

 

[Ricky Joe]

I found an interesting Circle-CV water pump wrench just this morning at the flea. Obviously Bonney-made, but not Bonney-branded, it has a strange part number on the shank ("J852"). I have yet to search on that in hopes of identifying the customer. No milled opening size marking, either. (It measures 1-1/4".) It's also very crudely finished. You can see the marks left by the machine in the jaws. Probably February 1930.

I've only ever found one other in the wild, a June 1928 ("FT"), and it was clearly branded and model numbered for Bonney sale, and marked with a size (1-7/16"). You can see them both together in Pics 3, 4, & 5.

I'm not trying to collect these, and other than the fact that they're kind of neat as a reminder of what mechanics used to pack and re-pack (and re-pack) water pump gland nuts before the advent of water pump pliers, and, in turn, a reminder of what water pump pliers were used for before that use was forever coloquially channelocked into oblivion, I have no real affinity for them.

(As an aside, we've never cracked the dots-based die code.)

That “J” number might be a Kent-Moore number. I’m not sure K-M was around in 1930, though.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes! They did use a J prefix. It very well could be. Good thinking. I'm not sure when they were incorporated, but I know they were doing business in 1934. So it's possible.

 

[Ricky Joe]

Yes! They did use a J prefix. It very well could be. Good thinking. I'm not sure when they were incorporated, but I know they were doing business in 1934. So it's possible.

If before Kent-Moore time period, check Hinkley-Myers.

 

[MR.X]

Scrounged this today. I'm not huge into Bonney or anything but surprised to see the hardware in such solid condition.

 

[Username already in use]

Scrounged this today. I'm not huge into Bonney or anything but surprised to see the hardware in such solid condition.

Dayumn! Nice score. For 3/4” drive stuff?
Want to ship it to me?