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Spreading the Bonney affliction!

Rileysan

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Sorry for not "minding my P's and Q's" as my momma used to say! :lol: (Only Bonney's date code system would give us the opportunity to bring that expression into a vintage tool conversation! :)) If you have "_ P" codes in there (which I didn't see...), too, then your set came from 1924 and 1925 production. :thumbup:

Thank you for the education! My wrenches are marked "EP". If I have deciphered the date coding correctly, the first letter is the month (E = May) and the second letter year (P = 1924), therefore my wrenches are May, 1924?

Are the remaining label remnants something from the factory?

Brian
 

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twertsy

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Thank you for the education! My wrenches are marked "EP". If I have deciphered the date coding correctly, the first letter is the month (E = May) and the second letter year (P = 1924), therefore my wrenches are May, 1924?



Are the remaining label remnants something from the factory?



Brian
Yes, from the factory.

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Private Lugnutz

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If I have deciphered the date coding correctly, the first letter is the month (E = May) and the second letter year (P = 1924), therefore my wrenches are May, 1924?
Yes, and nearly 6 months older than my "LP"'s, which might explain the different (and, as I said upthread, I suspect older) roll-up.

Yes, from the factory.
Brian, note yours are black and white on an orange background. Here are a couple of my better examples for a visual, which are orange and white on a black background...

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bonneyman

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Found this in a pawn shop today $5.00 for a 1" X 1 1/16" double box end wrench. It is a Kelsey Hayes Loc-Rite with a old owners mark on it. Tool number 24235.

OK, did a little more research at home, in my catalogs, and on the internet. (i.e. you's need to take this with alot of salt!)
The 1967 catalog shows DBEs larger than yours - but not that particular pair of sizes - and not with Loc-Rite. The 1970, 1977, and 1986 catalog DBE's are Loc-Rite - but stop before your 1". The wrench part number isn't in there, either. Hmm.

Whats the OAL of the wrench, Mike? Perhaps I can determine if it follows the progression of the other wrenches.
 
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Mikeske

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OK, did a little more research at home, in my catalogs, and on the internet. (i.e. you's need to take this with alot of salt!)
The 1967 catalog shows DBEs larger than yours - but not that particular pair of sizes - and not with Loc-Rite. The 1970, 1977, and 1986 catalog DBE's are Loc-Rite - but stop before your 1". The wrench part number isn't in there, either. Hmm.

Whats the OAL of the wrench, Mike? Perhaps I can determine if it follows the progression of the other wrenches.
What is OAL?
 
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bonneyman

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OH boy don't let my former employer know about that they LOVED acronyms. Of course they had a lot of government contracts in the past and have a couple big ones going on right now.

Sorry. I assumed - and we all know what THAT means - that OAL was a known acronym.
My guess is it should be between 13 3/8" and 16 1/2". Quite possibly close to 13 1/2"
 

Mikeske

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It appears in the pictures to be 16 and half inches. I agree with you Bonneyman as I think I found the rare needle in the haystack. I been also doing all sort of searches and I have found nothing zilch not a tool commonly seen and seems to be extremely rare.
 

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bonneyman

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It appears in the pictures to be 16 and half inches. I agree with you Bonneyman as I think I found the rare needle in the haystack. I been also doing all sort of searches and I have found nothing zilch not a tool commonly seen and seems to be extremely rare.

OK, that matches the length of the the two largest DBE's (1 1/16 x 1 1/4 and 1 1/16 x 1 1/2) in the 1967 catalog. So probably made on one of those forges and dies (with the newly patented LR pull broaches) pre-Triangle Tool acquisition. Full polish, too. Definitely an oddball.
Sweet. :thumbup:
 

Mikeske

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OK, that matches the length of the the two largest DBE's (1 1/16 x 1 1/4 and 1 1/16 x 1 1/2) in the 1967 catalog. So probably made on one of those forges and dies (with the newly patented LR pull broaches) pre-Triangle Tool acquisition. Full polish, too. Definitely an oddball.
Sweet. :thumbup:
I kind of wonder if it is possible that a aviation firm (I.E. Boeing) might have special ordered it as I recall seeing rather larger double box end wrenches used to install large bolts and nuts when jet engines were being installed. Since Boeing has never gone to metric and uses SAE even to this day it might be likely this came out of the Boeing surplus tools. The only thing is the owner marking is not Boeing as they used a circle around the letter B or a TR and number (TR820 was common as that toolroom was used a lot on the 747 line) to tell which toolroom that the wrench came from.
 
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bonneyman

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I kind of wonder if it is possible that a aviation firm (I.E. Boeing) might have special ordered it as I recall seeing rather larger double box end wrenches used to install large bolts and nuts when jet engines were being installed. Since Boeing has never gone to metric and uses SAE even to this day it might be likely this came out of the Boeing surplus tools. The only thing is the owner marking is not Boeing as they used a circle around the letter B or a TR and number (TR820 was common as that toolroom was used a lot on the 747 line) to tell which toolroom that the wrench came from.

Quite possibly.
The aerospace wrenches I have (long, zero offset, black oxide, extended boxes for recessed fasteners) were made for jet engines, and are marked with a similar Loc-Rite script and UTICA. I don't recall those types of wrenches being stamped Bonney, even toward the end of the run. Though Granco bought the dies and made some marked with their name.
 

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bonneyman

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Finished restoring-to-function my newest 1/4" drive ratchet. Slapped some fuel line on the handle and here it is next to a repaired 3/8"er, ready to go into the rotation.
 

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LesserSon

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My Ajax 32 is coming along. I stripped the dull verdigris-colored coating off the dynamic jaw and slide, and applied BLO to it and the spindle head and handle. The main nut pin looked from beneath to have a taper or head at the bottom, but was only peened over, so I was able to knock it out from below with a pin punch and hammer.
Glad I did, because there was an extraordinary accumulation of filth inside the walls of the static tower and under the dovetailed nut - like had been greased and then buried in black soil. Maybe some of it was casting sand - it was tenacious in places -I don’t know. Now it’s out, and really, I just have to strip the remaining paint from the static tower and BLO the remaining parts.
The blown-out chunk of the static jaw seems to have been filled with plaster and painted over. I can’t tell if that was a factory “repair” or a PO’s fix. The kermit-the-frog green that is under the verdigris isn’t everywhere, and I just don’t know if it was over the plaster fill.
I’ve been thinking whether to continue excavating the void, and whether to refill it. I could do solder, or JB Weld SteelStik, or just leave the hole. Thoughts?
 

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Mikeske

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Bonney Pickle fork from eBay arrived today.
 

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Mikeske

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Nice!

I have a 317 - very helpful for getting rusted pulleys off of evap cooler motors. I believe those are the only two models Bonney made.
I had one years ago that was a Matco made one that look identical to this one but somewhere alone the line I abused it so bad that I actually broke it. I think it had something to do with the fact I got it into a tight spot and decided to use a air impact gun on it. I did pop the tie rod off along with a side of the fork. I decided to make a drift punch out of that old Matco Pickle Fork. Because I abused it I never even bothered with getting warrantied.
 
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LesserSon

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Today I stopped in an antiques store, and was treated to the first “Bonney’s Patent” vise I’ve seen with that marking. I think it is very early, pre-Allentown, because the opening through the front static jaw is circular, the screw is passed through it from the back, and the spindle head is then pinned to hold the assembly together (which seems a weak point). I know there is an early Allentown patent that makes the hole oval, and the later screws pass through from the front. It is in great shape, but I still did not want to pay $42.
 

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LesserSon

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Couple other shots.
 

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akasrick

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I know there is an early Allentown patent that makes the hole oval
Someone say oval hole?
I'm guessing lock, stock and patent went to Allentown.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6995591&postcount=260
Looks like Mr. Baker after his stint at Leveans in Jersey before Stanley, sees his reflection in a polished tool and says he had better get back to PA.
So that's what that Bonneys Pat vise looks like.
What did you decide todo with your Ajax?

akasrick
 
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LesserSon

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What did you decide to do with your Ajax?
No one offered any advice, so I plan to wire wheel the static tower and nut today, then BLO. I think I’ll leave the flaw visible and unaddressed (except for digging out the remaining plaster). That seems to me to minimize expense and maximize honesty, leaving aesthetics and functionality neutral, plus future repair options wide open.
Probably removing the plaster is a reduction to historical integrity (like removing the paint), but I think the aesthetic improvement is worth it, and I have only my own conjecture that it was factory-performed.

PS - yes, that’s the patent I was thinking of.
 
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twertsy

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Update on my 1913-1915 Bonney chest. When I first got it, it appeared someone had wrenched the lid open too hard, which resulted in the side panels cracking.

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I had a friend of mine disassemble and repair it, and then clean and wax. Here are the results.

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I'm really happy with how this came out!!

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leg17

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Twertsy that is Sweet.

Looks like maybe shipping damage.

Now you are another slippery slope.
You might watch for machinist type period tools to flesh out the box.
 

LesserSon

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Hell yes, Twertsy! That repair looks great.
My Ajax 32 project got mixed up in a general wire wheel and BLO fest in the back yard today, as full sun and clear dry air breezed in from NJ today (usually wind from the east means rain, but not today). I found another “27” under the static tower, and uncovered evidence (in the form of buggered parting lines) of a partial mold collapse during casting, which I speculate caused an inclusion in the jaw, leading to a blowout while cooling. There is a very cylindrical open tunnel through the jawface, which might mean something, but I don’t know what. I’ve decide to conserve this as a factory second, instead of “improving” it, so I resisted the temptation to refine the appearance by filing down the rough spots.
I am also stripping a little Stanley vise and decided to BLO my collection of Bonney unfinished wrenches.
Ran into some difficulty doing something stupid - buffing the rust off an LS Starrett calipers, they got jammed into the clamp holding the block grinder to an outdoor bench (this is after buffing every other thing in these photos without incident). Ripped it out of my hand (along with a bit of finger), sent the clamp flying into my thigh (gonna leave a nasty bruise there). And the calipers are mangled. I superglued the finger, but those calipers - arrg. I was wearing glasses, a dust mask, a hat, and a face shield and neoprene gloves. Maybe next time a shop apron and heavier gloves. And a better mounting system for the grinder. And don’t buff calipers.
 

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LesserSon

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Today’s comparison, sponsored by yesterday’s purchase: Utica & Bonney pliers. I would hasten to add, these are all from BEFORE Bonney became part of Utica, and possibly while Utica was still independent. C1944-1960. I’ve seen checkerdot pattern and herringbone pattern Bonney-branded slipjoints, too. Like screwdrivers and hammers, not made by Bonney.

Ajax, pretending to be assembled. Going to wait a few more days, though.
And the unfinished wrenches.

Edit: new bathroom scale says this Ajax 32 weighs 18.4lb. My guess, based on the missing chunk, is a whole 32 would weigh about 19lb.
 

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LesserSon

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Someone say oval hole?
I'm guessing lock, stock and patent went to Allentown.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6995591&postcount=260
Looks like Mr. Baker after his stint at Leveans in Jersey before Stanley, sees his reflection in a polished tool and says he had better get back to PA.
I acquired a different JG Baker patented vise earlier the same day!
He should have changed his name to Spindleman.
A Stanley sweetheart No.742. Ironically, both of the components specifically described in the patent are gone! I guess the big idea was to use a cheap nail to keep the spindle from dropping out, instead of an expensive U-shaped plate and two screws. Only the holes remain in my example. And the clamp screw - supposedly slides into position? Well, mine is long gone. Too bad, too.
The chronology and assignment of the patents makes me think making and selling vises must have been an “anything goes” wild time back in the day. I am not convinced Bonney wasn’t involved somehow with this Stanley.
 

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akasrick

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I acquired a different JG Baker patented vise earlier the same day!
He should have changed his name to Spindleman.

The chronology and assignment of the patents makes me think making and selling vises must have been an “anything goes” wild time back in the day. I am not convinced Bonney wasn’t involved somehow with this Stanley.
attachment.php

Guessing you are thinking pat.#677,695. The witness in the prose is,
Phillip J. Leavens, manufacturer of Jersey vises, Leavens Mfg.

I did see a "A" patent associated with that # that alluded to all similar vises that he manufactured clearing the way for Stanley to buy his Co. My guess on that.
I'm not able to refind that patent.
I think “anything goes” it is more regional, and old school vs. upstart. New manufacturing processes, freight routes, who's putting money into what, someones wanting to dominate a segment of market etc. Again my guess.
I'm happy that I can get them apart AND back together, anything that I can
read about them is a bonus.
Has anyone said lately that they miss Twertsys archives?

akasrick
 

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LesserSon

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Guessing you are thinking pat.#677,695. The witness in the prose is,
Phillip J. Leavens, manufacturer of Jersey vises, Leavens Mfg.
Yes, exactly, but it’s #877695.

I did see a "A" patent associated with that # that alluded to all similar vises that he manufactured clearing the way for Stanley to buy his Co. My guess on that.
I'm not able to refind that patent.
The search is ON!
 
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LesserSon

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I think I haven’t understood what you mean by ‘a “A” patent.’ I thought it would reveal itself through discussion or the search, but no.
Would you please spell it out?
 

akasrick

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I think I haven’t understood what you mean by ‘a “A” patent.’ I thought it would reveal itself through discussion or the search, but no.
Would you please spell it out?

It's my undserstanding that patents can have letters associated to the numbers, for whatever reason this patent I believe has an a associated with it.

akasrick
 

Private Lugnutz

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It sounds like you may have viewed the patent on Google Patents? Google Patents uses the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) Standard ST.16 code on all its document numbers. The "A" in document US877695A indicates a granted patent. Pre-grant patents are followed by an "A1." Reissued patents are followed by an "E". Design patents are followed by an "S". There are over a dozen codes. In 2001 the USPTO began using the WIPO codes as well, but only on new patents. It does not apply the WIPO codes retroactively to its archives. When you use the USPTO search engine to look up vintage patents, you don't use the WIPO codes, and you won't see them show up in the PDF of the actual patent record.
 

akasrick

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It sounds like you may have viewed the patent on Google Patents? Google Patents uses the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) Standard ST.16 code on all its document numbers. The "A" in document US877695A indicates a granted patent. Pre-grant patents are followed by an "A1." Reissued patents are followed by an "E". Design patents are followed by an "S". There are over a dozen codes. In 2001 the USPTO began using the WIPO codes as well, but it does not apply them retroactively. When you use the USPTO search engine to look up patent numbers, you don't use the WIPO codes, and you won't see them show up in the actual patent application.


Not to muddy the waters... will a wildcard search (*) after the patent # produce anything?
I was stuck for a week with an "A" showing in the drawing trying to just get just the #.
All these people are in court (Google, Bonney}somewhere or another. Makes me uncomfortable stumbling around with my ignorance.

akasrick
 

Private Lugnutz

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I was stuck for a week with an "A" showing in the drawing trying to just get just the #.
Sorry, but I don't know what this means. I have never seen a PDF scan of an actual historical patent on the USPTO site with an "A" in the patent number, either on the drawing page or the specification and claims pages. Are you using the USPTO site? Or something else? I use the USPTO site or DATAMP, which takes you to the USPTO site.

Here is the link to the USPTO site for retrieving full scans of patents older than 1979.

AA uses Google Patents. Not sure why. But, as I said, all the granted utility patents in Google Patents include the WIPO "A" code as a suffix (indicating a granted patent).
 

Private Lugnutz

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The USPTO also uses letter codes before the patent number, but not for originally issued utility patents. An "RE" prefix is a re-issued patent, for example. A "D" prefix indicates a Design Patent. There is an "AI" prefix for Additional Improvement, but I am not sure when that code went into effect.
 

akasrick

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Sorry, but I don't know what this means. I have never seen a PDF scan of an actual historical patent on the USPTO site with an "A" in the patent number, either on the drawing page or the specification and claims pages. Are you using the USPTO site? Or something else? I use the USPTO site or DATAMP, which takes you to the USPTO site.

Lugz its just what I remembered reading from wherever whenever that number became known to me. Thanks for taking time to educate me on proper use of those sites. Possibly I'll stumble upon what I have previously viewed.

akasrick
 
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