Spreading the Bonney affliction!
- Thread starter bonneyman
- Start date
Finally saw these for myself today.
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twertsy
Well-known member
It was a sad day for me when I found my first example...…..
Mikeske
Well-known member
I still have not seen any India made Bonney's and picture is kind of sad but at least they did not sell many. I did receive a from eBay a 1967 print catalog. I scanned it into my computer and if anybody wants a copy just private message me with a email address and I send it by email.
mr natural
Member
The only bonney tool I have is a 3/8 drive 6" extension that somebody ground male end down into a punch 
(bargain box from yard sale).. bonney affliction indeed (my first post, it's official!)
(bargain box from yard sale).. bonney affliction indeed (my first post, it's official!)r_olson_06
Well-known member
Never seen any of them before. The logo is really neat. The made in India is sad.
Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrenches 3061, 3070,
Land Rover 109
Well-known member
Is the "made in India" really that bad? Is it the fact manufacture was moved offshore that upsets everyone- or the fact the quality is not there?
Are the tolerances and fit reasonable, or sloppy?
I have no made in India Bonney tools, but do own a set of Gedore made in India ROE's and they are not that bad, exterior finish is not that great and I have no doubt the metallurgy might differ from the original COO- but for everyday use they are not too bad.
Are the tolerances and fit reasonable, or sloppy?
I have no made in India Bonney tools, but do own a set of Gedore made in India ROE's and they are not that bad, exterior finish is not that great and I have no doubt the metallurgy might differ from the original COO- but for everyday use they are not too bad.
Mikeske
Well-known member
I have no idea as I never seen made in India Bonney tool only U.S.A. ones. I do have some tools that were made in India that I somehow got over the last 45 years and I used and abused them and if I need to make a modified tool often times I grab the cheap stuff and heat them up bend them and go about wrenching with them.
From what I understand it was only Bon E Con tools during the time that they were owned by Triangle Corp that had them made and sold. Apparently they did not sell well as the made in India tools are somewhat on the rare side and it may be the reason that they were poor sellers.
twertsy
Well-known member
I has to do with the fact that a US company that started ca. 1876 as a top tier tool manufacturer was relegated to bottom rung status in just over 100 years. Sadly, this happened to most of these companies throughout the conglomerate era of the 60s - 90s.
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The only bonney tool I have is a 3/8 drive 6" extension that somebody ground male end down into a punch
Welcome aboard! Be aware that the affliction you have been struck with is long lasting, time-consuming, and severely wallet-deflating!
four.cycle
Well-known member
twertsy said:
The Triangle corporate shuffle also sent Herbrand to the bottom - Triangle era Herband (clearly marked "USA") isn't even close to the earlier stuff on fit and finish. Ironically, the later Canadian-made stuff looks good by comparison.
disston
Well-known member
The only bonney tool I have is a 3/8 drive 6" extension that somebody ground male end down into a punch
Great first post. Welcome. Please share more when you buy some other tools. LOL.
Sorry I couldn't resist.
Speaking generally, and not about these particular wrenches, which seemed fine for economy-priced tools, I think there are three things.
One, yes, it irks me that manufacturing moved overseas. I understand the “global economy” argument that sourcing cheap labor, lax occupational safety and environmental contaminate regulation can provide lower prices to the consumer, who demonstrably chooses lower prices more often than not, ESPECIALLY when brand loyalty is placated with labeling. But horrific working conditions overseas contributes to pressure to roll back regulation here, under the pretext of restoring jobs.
Two, goods manufactured in USA are, by contrast, made to spec by trained adult workers (often further protected by union membership), safety and quality tested, and subject to lawsuit and recalls. Yes, that all makes them more expensive, but hell, they last longer, work better, and literally save you from injury or death.
Three, my personal anecdotal experiences with goods (not just tools, but clothing, building supplies, etc) made in India has been universally negative. Clothes don’t fit acording to standard sizes, shrink in unpredictable directions, and wear out. Same with plumbing supplies. Brass castings loaded with haphazard impurities and pinholes, dimensional inconsistency, nonstandard threads, chrome that flakes off. Ditto for steel tools. I’m sure India has great manufaturing capability; I have seen beautiful, hand-crafted items that speak to a rich, deep tradition of artisanal skill. But that isn’t the nature of off-the-rack, ready-to-wear, or mechanical products. Since Samuel Colt, parts have to be interchangeable, and from that aspect, what I’ve bought (because of price) has been worthless ****.
All this leads me to conclude that in order to match the quality of USA goods, the same regulation and conditions must also be matched, inevitably raising prices. Since local manufacturing has the additional value of employing my neighbors, keeping them out of crime and off welfare, I favor it, even if it means paying more for products.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
Got these items today from a single eBay auction.
D16. 13/16th inch socket 1/2 drive
LT18. 9/16th inch socket 3/8 drive
LT26. 13/16 inch socket 3/8 drive
TLH12. 3/8th inch socket 3/8 drive full polish
TLH20R. 5/8th inch spark plug 3/8 drive socket full polish
TH10. 5/16th inch socket 3/8 drive full polish
E-30434-02 1 1/16th inch socket 1/2" drive Bon-e-con
RF55 1 1/18 X 7/8 flare line wrench
The following are no part numbers
7/8 inch socket 1/2" drive older style but full polish
1/2" universal 3/8" drive triangle era
D16. 13/16th inch socket 1/2 drive
LT18. 9/16th inch socket 3/8 drive
LT26. 13/16 inch socket 3/8 drive
TLH12. 3/8th inch socket 3/8 drive full polish
TLH20R. 5/8th inch spark plug 3/8 drive socket full polish
TH10. 5/16th inch socket 3/8 drive full polish
E-30434-02 1 1/16th inch socket 1/2" drive Bon-e-con
RF55 1 1/18 X 7/8 flare line wrench
The following are no part numbers
7/8 inch socket 1/2" drive older style but full polish
1/2" universal 3/8" drive triangle era
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GrayFlattop
Well-known member
I have a question for the all-knowing Bonneyman: As we know, Metric versions of Bonney line wrenches are relatively scarce. I've only found 6-point versions in the wild - did Bonney ever produce 12-point versions of their full-polish RF-series Metric line wrenches?
I'd be interested in buying if someone is interested in selling!
I'd be interested in buying if someone is interested in selling!
Mikeske
Well-known member
I have a full set of the Bonney 6 point metric flare wrenches in the vinyl roller bag. I bought these originally in 1985 when I was leaving active duty Air Force along with my entire mechanics tool set. Reviewing the Bonney catalogs from 1970, 1980 and 1986 that I have the 6 points first showed up in the 1986 catalog. As far as I can tell Bonney never produced a 12 point version of the metric flare wrenches.
All-knowing? I know several people who would gleefully dispute that!
According to the 1986 catalog the metric flare wrenches were only made in SAE. Same as with their Cam-Loc ratcheting flare wrenches - SAE only. Though I do have 3 earlier catalogs - I'll have to check those as I don't recall offhand.
Speaking of which: my latest find: another DFE full polish in 1/2 and 9/16. A little chrome rash, but the broachings are both great. proves Bonney's are still findable in the wild!
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GrayFlattop
Well-known member
Thank you and thank Bonneyman for your prompt replies! I has suspected this was the case, but it' s good to have affirmation.
On the topic of Bonney catalogs, Are any of the 80's catalogs available online?
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
All-knowing? I know several people who would gleefully dispute that!
Don't sell yourself short - you and people like you are what makes GJ a great resource and a pleasant diversion/addiction. I appreciate your response as always.
My Bonney affliction started with a few full-polish 12 pt DFE's in the 80's. And then I realized that some of the vintage tools from my late uncle (passed in 1970, rest his soul) were also Bonney... Sure enough, you look a little bit and they turn up at garage sales, flea markets and eBay if one is patient...
I don't even want to think of the time and money I've spent in pursuit of filling out mostly complete sets. Ah - it's still a better hobby than than gambling...
Mikeske
Well-known member
Private message me with your email address as I have a scanned copies of the 1981 and 1986 catalogs and my most recent one is the 1967 catalog. If I remember right I got the catalogs for the 1981 and 1986 from the alloy artifacts website. I downloaded those and scanned the 1967 catalog onto my computer. The 1967 catalog is the first with the Loc-Rite.
In addition to hard copies of the 1981 and 1986 I have a hard copy of the 1977 Utica/Bonney catalog. Along with Mikeske's pdf of the 1967 that gives me 4 during the Triangle Tools era.
While on the topic I don't see any metric flare wrenches at all in the '77 catalog - only SAE throughout.
While on the topic I don't see any metric flare wrenches at all in the '77 catalog - only SAE throughout.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
The same goes for the 1967 catalog as no metric tools at all in that catalog. It does not really matter as I suspect that Bonney may have produced metric tools but it might have been a separate catalog.
Interesting.
They did alot of aerospace tooling - when did metric fasteners become common on aircraft, Mike?
Mikeske
Well-known member
To this date the 737, 747, 767, 777 and the 787 still use SAE. Airbus uses metric
Mikeske
Well-known member
MY wife encourages me to collect as she knows I have not had a alcoholic beverage since 1983 when I flat out quit drinking.And drinking!
Just don't blame me if your wife asks.
. I just quit because I never liked the taste of beer and hard spirits were never my bag. Of course by not drinking I have more moolah for tools. Mikeske
Well-known member
Mikeske
Well-known member
Mikeske
Well-known member
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
I like the Bonney medallion on the toolbox!
I don’t have my Bonney tools segregated from the others at the moment - not sure how that will change when my new tool chest arrives in February or March, but I’ll probably still keep most of the vintage tools in an 80’s Craftsman stack. I still consider most late era Bonney tools as users, but will obsessively clean them before putting them away.
If the task at hand is particularly challenging, I’ve got plenty of other tools to use, but I just love the way the full polished wrenches feel in the hand as well as the performance of the line wrenches. The 12 point sockets, well... the clean ones are almost too nice to use, but they get used carefully.
Am I nuts to use a bottle brush to clean them?
I don’t have my Bonney tools segregated from the others at the moment - not sure how that will change when my new tool chest arrives in February or March, but I’ll probably still keep most of the vintage tools in an 80’s Craftsman stack. I still consider most late era Bonney tools as users, but will obsessively clean them before putting them away.
If the task at hand is particularly challenging, I’ve got plenty of other tools to use, but I just love the way the full polished wrenches feel in the hand as well as the performance of the line wrenches. The 12 point sockets, well... the clean ones are almost too nice to use, but they get used carefully.
Am I nuts to use a bottle brush to clean them?
Mikeske
Well-known member
I ended up buying a 44" Harbor Freight roller, side box, and upper chest for my tool collection and I tried to combine all the tools I had in this setup. That failed as I had so many tools. So I went back to Harbor Freight and bought a 2nd 44" roller, side box, upper chest and a side mount closet. Now I had the room. The medallion came off my old 26" Waterloo manufactured tool box that I sold to a neighbors teenage son. I pulled the medallion and put it on my Harbor Freight box.
I then separated all the Bonney tools in the 2nd Harbor Freight setup and the rest of the tools in the first Harbor Freight setup.
I still use the Bonney tools a lot as I just like the feel of the tools except for the ratchets as they are not as good as the Snap-on ratchets of the same era which my Snap-on ratchets are. I use the Snap-on ratchets for the majority of the time except when I need a flex head ratchet. I really like my flex head 3/8th Bonney ratchets. The Bonney ratchets are strong but the back drag is a bit harder with them. I have found that if you take the ratchets apart and clean the over 30 year old grease and then use a light to medium coating of disc brake grease they smooth out a lot.
As far as keeping my Bonney's clean I learned to do that when in the aviation fields as keeping the tools spotless was important as I worked mainly in the interior of new aircraft and I wanted to speed up my clean up after I finished a task. I just never thought about it after I retired and I still clean them up after every use. I have used shop rags, bottle brushes and pipe cleaners and when they get particularly dirty from grease and the sort a ultrasonic cleaner for the everything but the ratchets.
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Most of my Bonney combos and DBE's - both SAE and metric - are hanging on a peg board and are regular users. The sockets are located there as well. Auto tools are in my FACOM car cantilever box - specialty tools are in boxes I made from the wife's stationary containers with foam inserts. She writes alot of letters (an old fashioned gal!), and goes thru alot of stationary. So I always have a supply of thin rectangular boxes just perfect for 4-6 wrench sets.
Some of my Bonney ratchets are hanging, but most are stored. Especially the NOS ones. I've got plenty of more desirable user ratchets (SK, Thorsen, EASCO, Herbrand, etc.) for users.
Some of my Bonney ratchets are hanging, but most are stored. Especially the NOS ones. I've got plenty of more desirable user ratchets (SK, Thorsen, EASCO, Herbrand, etc.) for users.
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I did some research a couple of months back concerning the Cam-Loc wrenches. Some of the conjecture I arrived at while doing that research may help with the pertinent Bonney story here.
Kelsey-Haynes had acquired Herbrand, Utica, and Bonney by 1964. Then they sold the whole kit and kaboodle to Triangle Tools in 1967. Now, Bonney had obtained their Loc-Rite patent in 1964, yet the advanced broaching didn't appear on the tools until after 1967. Why?
I'm thinking K-H was already looking to dump the tool divisions and go totally into brake systems, and didn't want to invest the capital into new Loc-Rite tooling. And I think when Triangle Tools acquired the tool divisions they didn't want to spend all that money right away since they'd just dropped a bundle getting the brands. They most probably just kept the majority of the existing tool lines going for the time being. (For example, the 3/4 and 1 inch ratchets were still the old Herbrand pear-head design in 1967 - only the 1/2" drive and smaller rats went to the "new" double pawl roundhead. And though the now famous V-gullet open end (named Hex-Fit) was introduced in 1967, the box ends were still sharp broached). So it seems like they were trying to keep from changing everything at once after the acquisition. (In fact, other than the wrenches and sockets, I don't see much difference in most Bonney tools from the 1967 catalog up until the 1986 literature).
The 1977 catalog has Loc-Rite broached sockets and wrenches. So somewhere in that decade (1967 to 1977) Loc-Rite was put on to production tools. (I sort of remember a 1970 catalog on ebay, and the seller put up several pages for perspective buyers to view. And I think it mentioned the "new" Loc-Rite broaching. So until I find some hard evidence otherwise, I'll stick with that assumption).
Now concerning the metric flare tools, they must have appeared in the 1977 - 1981 window. If I wonder why - what would have happened in that small time slot to get them to introduce a whole new line of tools - I conjecture it was the increasing number of foreign cars in the USA. Sure there were foreign cars in America long before that, but not a huge percentage of the market. Then the American car makers started facing the onslaught of small, fuel efficient foreign cars because of EPA regs starting in the mid 70's, and growing demand for metric tools would have required a Bonney (and everybody else) to start offering them.
I was working as a car mechanic in 1981 - we were installing alot of A/C's on cars for the local Honda dealer because they weren't set up for that. A customer ordered A/C on a new Honda - they dropped the parts in the trunk and sent the car over to us. (And we installed the kit for $100.
). So it lines up with my reasoning that at that time the foreign car dealers didn't have that capability because they were still quite new.
I bought my first set of Bonney tools off of a tool truck. He sold S-K, Diamond, and Bonney. (Obviously Bonney wasn't big enough in the car tool industry to have their own trucks. So, they "piggy-backed" off of small, independent dealers). This lines up with what Epstein's told me: Bonney did alot of government and military contracts back in the day. But then the U.S. government started trying to save money on tools. With the inrush of cheap Japanese tools, they could save big on switching from Bonney and whoever to Jap ****. (When I was in the USAF in the mid 80's, I don't remember Bonney or Snap-On or any other US name in the tool boxes. They were cheap no-name tools). So I surmise Bonney suddenly found itself without it's traditional no questions asked buyer, and scrambled to switch over to the private sector and try and make contacts to sell tools. They made new stuff where they had to, and kept the rest of their tools the same as they'd always been.
JMHO
Kelsey-Haynes had acquired Herbrand, Utica, and Bonney by 1964. Then they sold the whole kit and kaboodle to Triangle Tools in 1967. Now, Bonney had obtained their Loc-Rite patent in 1964, yet the advanced broaching didn't appear on the tools until after 1967. Why?
I'm thinking K-H was already looking to dump the tool divisions and go totally into brake systems, and didn't want to invest the capital into new Loc-Rite tooling. And I think when Triangle Tools acquired the tool divisions they didn't want to spend all that money right away since they'd just dropped a bundle getting the brands. They most probably just kept the majority of the existing tool lines going for the time being. (For example, the 3/4 and 1 inch ratchets were still the old Herbrand pear-head design in 1967 - only the 1/2" drive and smaller rats went to the "new" double pawl roundhead. And though the now famous V-gullet open end (named Hex-Fit) was introduced in 1967, the box ends were still sharp broached). So it seems like they were trying to keep from changing everything at once after the acquisition. (In fact, other than the wrenches and sockets, I don't see much difference in most Bonney tools from the 1967 catalog up until the 1986 literature).
The 1977 catalog has Loc-Rite broached sockets and wrenches. So somewhere in that decade (1967 to 1977) Loc-Rite was put on to production tools. (I sort of remember a 1970 catalog on ebay, and the seller put up several pages for perspective buyers to view. And I think it mentioned the "new" Loc-Rite broaching. So until I find some hard evidence otherwise, I'll stick with that assumption).
Now concerning the metric flare tools, they must have appeared in the 1977 - 1981 window. If I wonder why - what would have happened in that small time slot to get them to introduce a whole new line of tools - I conjecture it was the increasing number of foreign cars in the USA. Sure there were foreign cars in America long before that, but not a huge percentage of the market. Then the American car makers started facing the onslaught of small, fuel efficient foreign cars because of EPA regs starting in the mid 70's, and growing demand for metric tools would have required a Bonney (and everybody else) to start offering them.
I was working as a car mechanic in 1981 - we were installing alot of A/C's on cars for the local Honda dealer because they weren't set up for that. A customer ordered A/C on a new Honda - they dropped the parts in the trunk and sent the car over to us. (And we installed the kit for $100.
). So it lines up with my reasoning that at that time the foreign car dealers didn't have that capability because they were still quite new. I bought my first set of Bonney tools off of a tool truck. He sold S-K, Diamond, and Bonney. (Obviously Bonney wasn't big enough in the car tool industry to have their own trucks. So, they "piggy-backed" off of small, independent dealers). This lines up with what Epstein's told me: Bonney did alot of government and military contracts back in the day. But then the U.S. government started trying to save money on tools. With the inrush of cheap Japanese tools, they could save big on switching from Bonney and whoever to Jap ****. (When I was in the USAF in the mid 80's, I don't remember Bonney or Snap-On or any other US name in the tool boxes. They were cheap no-name tools). So I surmise Bonney suddenly found itself without it's traditional no questions asked buyer, and scrambled to switch over to the private sector and try and make contacts to sell tools. They made new stuff where they had to, and kept the rest of their tools the same as they'd always been.
JMHO
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Mikeske
Well-known member
I think you are correct as when I was in Air Force in the mid 70’s and we had a few of the older tools were some Bonney but the vast majority either had no name or Globemaster, Thorsen, Blackhawk or no name tools imported. That is until I arrived at Nellis AFB. When I got to Nellis the majority of the tools were Bonney and some Snap-on industrial marked “no warranty” the toolbox were mainly unmarked with some Waterloo industrial toolboxes.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Just for historical pride sake, I'd feel better if that was written like this:
"Obviously, Bonney was no longer big enough in the car tool industry to have their own trucks..."
Mikeske
Well-known member
Just for historical pride sake, I'd feel better if that was written like this:
"Obviously, Bonney was no longer big enough in the car tool industry to have their own trucks..."
By the early 1980’s when I bought my first set of Bonney tools they did not have tool trucks but they had been into what I call the jobber market and I got my set through Grainger in Las Vegas. If I had a warranty issue I simply went to Grainger and they did the warranties for me. My flex head 3/8” ratchet broke in 1994 and by this time I was in Everett Washington and I headed over to Grainger and they had stopped carrying Bonney.
I ended up getting a off market flex head ratchet that absolutely a pile of junk. Taking the junk flex head they finally located a new Bonney flex head ratchet in Seattle and had it shipped to me. Six months later Bonney was no more.
That's it! The truck I bought of of was one of those jobber gigs.
I lost my 13mm combo in the early 2000's - it was only then after trying to find a replacement that I discovered Bonney was no more. Then I stumbled upon a power tool repair shop in 2006 that had been a Bonney dealer in the past, and the owner had a passion for Bonney. So they had a stash in the back room.
Several more visits and "chatting up" as it were the counter guy he finally let me go into the back area - when the boss was on lunch! - and I could browse. Dang I should've bought one of everything he had!
Just for historical pride sake, I'd feel better if that was written like this:
"Obviously, Bonney was no longer big enough in the car tool industry to have their own trucks..."
Hmmm, I could go for that. I think they dropped the ball in a few areas. Heck, most companies do.
Though it seems like Snap-On doesn't make any mis-steps.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I don't know if Bonney ever had tool trucks, Mikeske, which originated with Snap-on during WWII. The point of my light-hearted editorializing was to remind you post-war collectors that in its heyday in the 1920's and 1930's, Bonney was one of the big boys on the block, originating alloy tools, and producing a selection and quality of mechanics tools that easily equaled if not surpassed Snap-on, Blackhawk, and Plomb. In other words, Bonney may no longer have been big enough to be a so-called "truck brand" in the 1980's, but if tool makers has been selling tools out of the back of a truck in the 1920's and 1930's, and that was a mark of a major company versus a smaller company, Bonney WOULD have been one of them. For context.