Looks like a 1980 Snap-on date code on it.
Spreading the Bonney affliction!
- Thread starter bonneyman
- Start date
Looks like a 1980 Snap-on date code on it.
I hauled out a toolbox today that I have been meaning to address. I bought it with a good deal of hand-brushed black all over it, and no tray. You could just see a little red crinkle paint under the hasps and smooth red behind the front lip of the lid. I believe it was made by Union. I have wondered about its age, because I don’t see its exact match in any catalog.
Anyway, today I soaked it in diluted Simple Green and began scrubbing the black off. That did not last long. It does come off, but so does the red. A bit more tenacious was the oval decal under the lid, so I got the black off that and the hasps, and - bonus - I have a better idea of the age. Looks like this logo is in the catalogs from about 1937-1947, keeping in mind the conservative approach Bonney took with updating illustrations.
If the solid handle (Edit- LIES! It's two pieces of formed sheet steel - top and bottom - pressed together. I didn’t notice the seams at the sides, because I assumed a hollow handle would be one piece.) is a clue to dating Union boxes like this (I’ve seen some with a lacquered or sheathed, hollow handle), and you know the date, let me know.
I’m not sure how Bonney measured their boxes, the closest match in the catalogs is 5x8x20-1/2”, but this is deeper than that - more like 8 or 9” if you count the space under the lid, and about 22” long inside the bottom.
After revealing the decal, I cleaned the box inside and out, and scraped down the globs, crud inclusions, and dried drips. Have to replace a missing tray support (and maybe source a tray), then I think I’ll just get a couple spray cans of Rustoleum Satin Red, mask off the decal and the hasps, and have at it. Now, which red is the right red...
Edit: for posterity, the label is 3-3/8”h x 5”w. The border and stars are white, the machines and letter outlines are ivory (not gold), and of course the two main colors are black and orange. The kerning of the “B” in Bonney is adjusted to close up the space a bit, and the ampersand in the full company name is a flat-top, so with patience, the actual sanserif font should be discoverable.
Whatever inks and material it is, they were very resistant to Simple Green and water, so not paper, which is what I think the ones from the late 1960s are.
Anyway, today I soaked it in diluted Simple Green and began scrubbing the black off. That did not last long. It does come off, but so does the red. A bit more tenacious was the oval decal under the lid, so I got the black off that and the hasps, and - bonus - I have a better idea of the age. Looks like this logo is in the catalogs from about 1937-1947, keeping in mind the conservative approach Bonney took with updating illustrations.
If the solid handle (Edit- LIES! It's two pieces of formed sheet steel - top and bottom - pressed together. I didn’t notice the seams at the sides, because I assumed a hollow handle would be one piece.) is a clue to dating Union boxes like this (I’ve seen some with a lacquered or sheathed, hollow handle), and you know the date, let me know.
I’m not sure how Bonney measured their boxes, the closest match in the catalogs is 5x8x20-1/2”, but this is deeper than that - more like 8 or 9” if you count the space under the lid, and about 22” long inside the bottom.
After revealing the decal, I cleaned the box inside and out, and scraped down the globs, crud inclusions, and dried drips. Have to replace a missing tray support (and maybe source a tray), then I think I’ll just get a couple spray cans of Rustoleum Satin Red, mask off the decal and the hasps, and have at it. Now, which red is the right red...
Edit: for posterity, the label is 3-3/8”h x 5”w. The border and stars are white, the machines and letter outlines are ivory (not gold), and of course the two main colors are black and orange. The kerning of the “B” in Bonney is adjusted to close up the space a bit, and the ampersand in the full company name is a flat-top, so with patience, the actual sanserif font should be discoverable.
Whatever inks and material it is, they were very resistant to Simple Green and water, so not paper, which is what I think the ones from the late 1960s are.
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Nice. I think you'll be able to make it look great.
Of all the Bonney box labels that one is my favorite. Just something about the tool silhouettes around the oval that set it apart.
Today I held a fistful of Bonney wrenches, but even though they were cheaper than dirt, I set them down. Firstly because I have better extras of each, and secondly because I’m planning to hit the Montezuma NY rt90 50-mile yard sale next weekend, so I must husband my cash. As an illustration of my restraint today, I also did not buy a WWII folding shovel for $3, because it had two inches sawed off the end of the handle, which was held on by a large toggle bolt and a couple yards of black vinyl tape. Upon returning home, I realized I have a hoof-trimmers handle that is virtually identical to the standard shovel handle...maybe I’ll see it again and offer $2.
However, I could NOT pass up these two Bonney items: a 1-5/16” 208A erection wrench and a PH9 24oz ballpein hammer, with - you guessed it - two inches cut off the end of the handle! Should be 16”, but it’s only 14”. Most of the Bonney hammers I’ve seen (and I’ve bought every one) have had similar amputations.
I have a couple theories: mechanics with short arms, mechanics with short toolboxes. For the love of Bonney! choke up on the handle; buy a longer toolbox!
Possibly, too, they just needed to swing in a restricted space, but jeez, cut down a Plumb instead.
Anyway, I’m happy to have it. And it’ll fit in my toolbox.
However, I could NOT pass up these two Bonney items: a 1-5/16” 208A erection wrench and a PH9 24oz ballpein hammer, with - you guessed it - two inches cut off the end of the handle! Should be 16”, but it’s only 14”. Most of the Bonney hammers I’ve seen (and I’ve bought every one) have had similar amputations.
I have a couple theories: mechanics with short arms, mechanics with short toolboxes. For the love of Bonney! choke up on the handle; buy a longer toolbox!
Possibly, too, they just needed to swing in a restricted space, but jeez, cut down a Plumb instead.
Anyway, I’m happy to have it. And it’ll fit in my toolbox.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
I seen lots of handles like that also but I have a different theory is the end of the handle had started to split and crack simple fix just cut the wood handle off just above the splitting wood.
Mikeske
Well-known member
I got the vinyl reproduction labels off eBay a couple weeks ago that is similar but being a reproduction label probably doesn't quite match period correctly.
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Yes, those are close. I don’t know what the dimensions are. The seller has a grid under them, but it doesn’t say what units.
The “B” as I suggested, is kerned automatically, so there’s a gap. The ampersand. And the gold - I could be wrong (and scrubbed it off), but I din’t think the original has any metallic color.
The biggest difference, though, is the airplane.
I noticed differences in earlier Snap-on decals, too (the drop-shadow), but I think they’ve been addressed.
I think it’s okay and maybe desire-able for there to be differences between an original and a reproduction. Less chance for deception.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Except for the few area where the decal is completely chipped off, it's in incredibly good condition, LS! So good that if one didn't know better, it almost looks like a modern vinyl replacement. Not suggesting it is. I just can't get over how vivid the colors are and how shiny the material remains!
For comparison, here is my decal again. As for timeline, it is still used in the first postwar catalog (1946), but gone by the 1951 catalog.
It's under the lid of a flip-top box definitively made by Union. (The handle tabs have been impressed into the lid, just like on the WWII Union boxes.) Note that this is not a 41-B-1840 though. It is slightly larger but not as tall.
EDIT: Actually it may be the same external dimensions as the 41-B-1840 they made for the Ordnance Dept. I'll have to re-check that when I return home at the end of the week. But the removeable tray is much deeper, with no oiler spout hole. That leaves scant place for tools underneath (hence why all my relatively flat tool rolls and the midget set are stowed down there).
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The saturation and gloss are owing to three factors:
The material and pigment was completely protected from photo-degradation and contact-staining by the black stuff painted over it, which I believe is the same material painted on the iron handrails of my house - resilient, somewhat elastic, and chalks or fogs if exposed to alcohol, so some lacquer content.
The surface was completely wet. The ghosty glints at the extreme left (lower half) of the frame are ripples moving on the face of the water.
It was under the shade of a tree in very bright sun.
Here’s a side-by-side with a photo taken while it’s dry, more directional light.
It’s still good, but you can see the surface is not glossy, partly, I suppose, because I was using a 3M pad. I’m sure the missing areas were missing before the black paint was applied, because of black residue in the depressions.
I plan to coating it with clear acrylic polymer, then fill in the missing areas of color with artist’s acrylic paints, most likely after I spray the box red, because I’ll have to mask off the decal to spray, and acrylic takes a month to fully harden. I don’t intend or expect to make the repairs invisible, just less than obvious.
Rustoleum has a several reds. Sunrise Red is pretty close, but I think I want to avoid gloss, because of the visible drips from the black paint. In satin, something between Colonial or Heritage Red and Apple Red seems right. I’ll have to decide.
I also found Behr “No More Drama” to be a good match, so I might get a quart of that for a DIY wrenchboard. (I guess I could use it on the box, too...hmm.)
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Mikeske
Well-known member
Great acquisitions!
So what are you still lacking, Mike? Seems with all your buying you should be pretty close to a complete set of SAE combos.
Mikeske
Well-known member
I have a complete set from 5/16" to 1 1/8" with no skips. If I happen to find wrenches that are in better shape and at a good price I will buy them. Yeah they make for duplicates but the recent ones are in much better appearance as my originals had heavy use and are originals from when I bought them in 1983
I have from 1/4" to 1 ", missing the 15/16".
I snagged the 1" at a pawn shop for $3. Had an owners mark, but since I was planning on going to K&N oil filters, I wanted a 1" box end. They have a 1" hex nut welded to the case, makes it alot easier to get off rather than dink around with band or cup type filer tools.
I might have a spare 1/4"er (short style) if you want me to look for ya. I don't believe Bonney made that size in long full polish.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
I already have the 1/4" (P/N 1157) short style in the full polish. I already have the shorts from 1/4" to 11/16".
I just looked at my tool list and I have only one of the 15/16", 1 1/16", 1 1/8" and it was kind of hard to find the 15/16". ON the 1" I have two of them and I will check and see if they have any tool marks, I do know one of them does as it mine originally I bought back in 1983.
10-4
I grabbed the 1" for that one purpose. I really don't hunt for SAE anymore - with the Bonney's it's all about the metrics.
Provincial
Well-known member
I saw an ad for an estate sale for last Friday. It had a photo that caught my eye. See Photo 1.
I was there at opening, and they didn't have a big crowd. Luckily, I was able to get to the garage and grab the wrenches. There was only one price tag, and it was on the largest wrench. When I go to the checkout, the cashier said the price was for the whole bundle, so I got them for $40.00.
They are Bonney Loc-Rite satin combinations from 3/8 to 1-1/4, but are missing the 1/2, 3/4, and 7/8 sizes. All the wrenches are in excellent shape, with no rust, damage, or owners's marks.
Now I have to fill in the gaps!
I was there at opening, and they didn't have a big crowd. Luckily, I was able to get to the garage and grab the wrenches. There was only one price tag, and it was on the largest wrench. When I go to the checkout, the cashier said the price was for the whole bundle, so I got them for $40.00.
They are Bonney Loc-Rite satin combinations from 3/8 to 1-1/4, but are missing the 1/2, 3/4, and 7/8 sizes. All the wrenches are in excellent shape, with no rust, damage, or owners's marks.
Now I have to fill in the gaps!
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Mikeske
Well-known member
OH I have the sizes if you are interested but they do have marks. See the pictures
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Phew! I agonized over the shade of red, and finally selected Rustoleum Painters Touch 2X Colonial Red.
On the plus side, it’s the right tone. I was also concerned that the Stops Rust solvents would soften or even lift the old black paint.
On the minus side, Colonial Red is the wrong hue (somewhat too cool - more raspberry than fresh blood). I think Sunrise Red satin would be a closer match, though perhaps a bit too bright. (I only had a Sunrise Red gloss for the last pic.)
In my defense, the few places where the original color peeked through were in very hard-to-inspect areas.
I don’t know if 2X comes in Sunrise Red. And I don’t know if Stops Rust can be applied over 2X. In any case, I won’t do anything further for a few days, at least.
Here are some pics of my process. The color reminds me of my Super Sawzall box.
On the plus side, it’s the right tone. I was also concerned that the Stops Rust solvents would soften or even lift the old black paint.
On the minus side, Colonial Red is the wrong hue (somewhat too cool - more raspberry than fresh blood). I think Sunrise Red satin would be a closer match, though perhaps a bit too bright. (I only had a Sunrise Red gloss for the last pic.)
In my defense, the few places where the original color peeked through were in very hard-to-inspect areas.
I don’t know if 2X comes in Sunrise Red. And I don’t know if Stops Rust can be applied over 2X. In any case, I won’t do anything further for a few days, at least.
Here are some pics of my process. The color reminds me of my Super Sawzall box.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I can see why you chose it, LS, but I can also see why you're disappointed. It looks like it dried one or two shades brighter than the lid.
Tylermorris
Well-known member
I think I may have found them in the 67 catalog
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Mikeske
Well-known member
Well I still turn wrenches and a couple days ago I needed to replace the water pump on my 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 with a 5.9 liter Cummins engine. I have always had the attitude that I bought those Triangle era Bonney tools for a reason and since I have them I used them. Everything from my 1/2" breaker bar to loosen the belt tensioner to various sized sockets, pliers and wrenches were used on the project. My Bonney's are not sitting pretty in the toolbox (even though they are kept spotless) they are working tools but now they are semi-retired along with me being fully retired.
I did have one issue and that was the water pump that the part store sold me had to be returned as it did not fit and I ran over and got a OEM one from the dealership. Once that was done it all went back together and got my truck back on the road.
So how many of us use Bonney tools as they are intended?
I did have one issue and that was the water pump that the part store sold me had to be returned as it did not fit and I ran over and got a OEM one from the dealership. Once that was done it all went back together and got my truck back on the road.
So how many of us use Bonney tools as they are intended?
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Sam'sAutoParts
Well-known member
I do use some of mine, if I had more metric I would use them more. The SAE wrenches at work are short pattern, so they get used just not very often. The metric set at work is missing 14mm and smaller, so it is limited, but still used occasionally. The long pattern SAE set at home sees regular weekend use.
My sockets and wrenches get used regularly. They're my go-to's at home. Though I still prefer S-K - or the HF composite - ratchets.
I've got a pair of Bonney rats (3/8" and 1/4") that I've cobbled together and have put into the rotation. If I get a mechanics job these will go into the work tools.
I've got a pair of Bonney rats (3/8" and 1/4") that I've cobbled together and have put into the rotation. If I get a mechanics job these will go into the work tools.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
I have the metric short in 3/8 from 6MM-26MM the deeps from 9MM-19MM the 1/4" shorts from 5MM-14MM and the deeps from 5MM-15MM. The long metric wrenches from 10MM-20MM and the short metric wrenches from 6MM-19MM (the short metric are industrial black oxide). Everything in the metric I originally bought new in 1983 except the industrial short metrics and I had lost a few of the metric wrenches as my son had swiped a few and my wife had boxed up a few of the wrenches for several years until last year when they were found again. The ratchets I have go from 1/4" to 3/4" and I am like Bonneyman as I actually prefer the Snap-on ratchets from the early 1980's as they were smoother action and less clunky in the conditions I worked in. I originally bought my Bonney setup to work on aircraft but since Boeing, McDonald-Douglas and Lockheed aircraft kept using SAE on the fasteners I just kept the metric for the times I would be laid off and I work as a automotive mechanic. I just happen to get lucky and was never laid off so the metric tools stayed at home and was used on weekends when I worked on vehicles for a few dollars extra.
I am not a mechanic, so my interest in tools is academic, aesthetic, nostalgic. Two generations ago, most men in my family were either in agriculture or the trades. One of my great-grandfathers owned an auto shop, one was a carpenter, one was a miller, one raised cattle. Both my grandfathers had many intriguing legacy tools in their home wood-working shops. Growing up, my neighbors were a retired dairy farmer who had profitably sold his farm and store, but kept enough timber, land and equipment (dozer, tractor, sawmill) to build wagons and show ponies. Another was a welder, another was an auto mechanic.
I worked in the maintenance department of a local hospital in the early- and mid-eighties as a nonskilled helper to staff carpenters, electricians, plumbers, painter and landscaper, and picked up a few diverse skills that way. But working on vehicles is not something I’ve ever done.
My career has taken me away from those opportunities, and a few years ago, I took a night class in a trade I thought would bring some of what I was missing back into my life. But my main takeaway, was how many tools I didn’t have, or even know about. So, I got sidetracked into acquiring tools, at first just the few needed for the class I was taking, but now TOOLS themselves are my main interest. Each tool has a story to tell, but to hear it, your interest can’t stop at “what is it for?” I want to know “how does it make the task easier?” “How is alike and different from similar tools?” “What is the history of its manufacture?” Etc.
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Mikeske
Well-known member
Metric set of Bonney wrenches.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonney-9-p...856227?hash=item4d98ab78e3:g:82UAAOSwukldNckM
I do not need them as I already have a complete set.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonney-9-p...856227?hash=item4d98ab78e3:g:82UAAOSwukldNckM
I do not need them as I already have a complete set.
RubiconJK
Well-known member
Every little bit helps. My fairly nice collection of Bonney was assembled mostly one piece at a time.
Sam'sAutoParts
Well-known member
I’m watching those, but based on what the last set I bid on they will sell for more than I can swing at the moment.
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Yeah, I think the secret about Bonney is out. People now know they're great tools and the prices have really jumped.
For that set there I'd go $100. Even missing the 12mm. But a die hard will pay much more than that.
Mikeske
Well-known member
I am also watching and will probably bid on them later on near the time the auction finishes
They are nice and my set is a piece together and has for the most part heavy use and on several of my metrics has worn and on the 13 and 15 plating losss. I will be bidding on them later today.Yeah, I think the secret about Bonney is out. People now know they're great tools and the prices have really jumped.
For that set there I'd go $100. Even missing the 12mm. But a die hard will pay much more than that.
Mikeske
Well-known member
Well I got outbid on the metric set but there is no way I was going over $170.00. The winning bidder paid $172.50.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonney-9-p..._trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&autorefresh=true
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonney-9-p..._trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2649&autorefresh=true
Sam'sAutoParts
Well-known member
That’s not far from the price of a new set of SK long pattern wrenches.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mikeske
Well-known member
I personally think the whole thing was a setup. I had as max bid $170.00 and the guy bid $148.00 then jumped all the way to $172.50 without any bid between. I smell a rat.Yikes! $172 and change?
Mikeske
Well-known member
Mikeske
Well-known member
I also had the wrong part number on the wrench since corrected and yes it is a 12 point on the wrench and 6 point on the socket.
Mikeske
Well-known member
Yes in the quarter inch Bonney metric socket sets they are all 6 point and the Bonney 3/8ths metric socket sets they are all 12 points. I DO NOT have a 1/2" metric set for Bonney as I was saving money when I originally bought the Bonney tools in 1983 and I was primarily working on SAE tools in aircraft structural repair and maintenance.